Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad

Indy said:
You're going to have fun with the 7 month old. I got Bandit when he was 7 month old and he was starting to form some real strong opinions on life! He's brilliant though and I wouldn't be without him and to be honest I think he's made me a better dog owner. He's reactive with food and other dogs too but I think a lot of that comes from no socialisation during his puppy hood. I have been asked a couple of times if hes a Romanian dog.

Anyway, what have you called your two. I'd love to see pictures of them

I meant Bandit is reactive with dogs when food is around, not reactive just with dogs in general. Although he cannot stand spaniels
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the 8.5 month male is Weasel and yes he is going to be fun to work with. At that age it could be very resistant or very amenable and I am very lucky there. He was clearly caught with a catch pole so that is going to be an early thing to work on. I am very lucky to have a friend with a dog used to socialise others so before too long we will move onto other dog socialisation. He has lived, from the videos I have seen, with other dogs although probably smaller ones so he does know. He may well be fine.

the food thing is to be expected from a street dog and easy to work around.
The bitch, who has been neutered, is unnamed. I am waiting for OH to come up with a name he likes.
She came out of her cage this morning and had a good "ping" around.

Both are now caged waiting for the shoot (pheasants/ducks) which shoot in the field next to us. ATM I have no idea if they will react to shotgun fire or not. Based on last night's noise they will probably be fine but I need to be sure

I am not going to post pics, sorry. I am being totally slagged off on here by people who have never met me nor my animals and in fact have no info. about either. They don't even know what they look like. Although they are obviously experts.

It doesn't bother me too much but people will not in any way whatsoever be slagging off any of my animals based on pics on a forum. :mad:
 
Clodagh said:
I’m probably on ignore but please DO NOT TAKE FOOD AWAY FROM THEM. I would very, very strongly advise that with any dog wherever it came from.
The whole alpha I can Lord it over you is bollocks.
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you are not on UI. I'm sorry, I've had a fair number of dogs in the past but I have just never come across a method called "the whole alpha I can Lord it over you is bollocks" :eek::eek::eek:

I realise that that failure makes me totally unsuitable to have a dog let along a foreign rescue but I expect we will manage to cope regardless. :D

Clodagh said:
I imagine homes prepared to spend the money to take on two large dogs, one at least of a breed renowned for being temperamentally unsuited to many a domestic home, are few and far between and it’s worth the gamble.
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really? there were several similar dogs on the transport. One far larger than mine will ever be. I was totally green with envy. I don't think there are any shortage of homes. I have little doubt that my rescue could place my two one of whom is smaller, several times over. I grabbed the dog immediately he was advertised, I know I would miss out otherwise

Has it occurred to you that I may have wanted that sort of Romanian shepherd out of choice not just being prepared to take it on? I didn't take on a rescue out of pity, I chose a particular dog who just happened to live in Romania at the time.
 
Borderreiver said:
View attachment 168611This is my beautiful Cyprus rescue. A puppy would not be appropriate for us in our seventies and at least with a good rescue there is backup in the UK if it goes wrong.
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lovely pic and beautiful dogs but surely that cannot be a foreign import? looks way too happy, calm, content and non problematical. :D:D:D:D
 
paddy555 said:
you are not on UI. I'm sorry, I've had a fair number of dogs in the past but I have just never come across a method called "the whole alpha I can Lord it over you is bollocks" :eek::eek::eek:

I realise that that failure makes me totally unsuitable to have a dog let along a foreign rescue but I expect we will manage to cope regardless. :D


really? there were several similar dogs on the transport. One far larger than mine will ever be. I was totally green with envy. I don't think there are any shortage of homes. I have little doubt that my rescue could place my two one of whom is smaller, several times over. I grabbed the dog immediately he was advertised, I know I would miss out otherwise

Has it occurred to you that I may have wanted that sort of Romanian shepherd out of choice not just being prepared to take it on? I didn't take on a rescue out of pity, I chose a particular dog who just happened to live in Romania at the time.
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Out of genuine curiosity why do you want to take their food from them?
And I’m sorry I didn’t realise you set out for that breed, I thought you fell in love with a photo of a dog on the internet. It does make more sense now .
I do wish you all the best.
 
skinnydipper said:
Isn't it unusual for a rescue to adopt out 2 dogs at the same time, dogs who are strangers to each other?

I would have thought a rescue would want to give the new adopter the best possible chance of success and get one dog successfully settled into their new home before introducing another.
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I took one dog to adopt (the male) the 2nd I took as a foster at the same time, We (myself and the rescue) then decided that if they were compatible I would keep both.

In this case what would have been the point to have one and then to have the 2nd later. The 2nd would have had to go to another foster/shelter live there and then be disrupted with another home move. Also this way I get to know the 2nd dog and see if it can work.

You appear to be criticising a rescue that you know nothing about, dogs you have never met and a home you have no idea of. Still normal HHO I guess :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
About 32 years ago I rehomed a dog from Battersea, she was a Rottie x, about 11 months old who'd been returned twice as uncontrollable. It took about a year to turn her into a wonderful companion who lived to 15. But walking round the kennels, there were a few ex racing greyhounds and staffies but the majority were "happy accidents". Since then I think we have become far more responsible in some ways but less so in others, the "accidents" don't happen, most pet dogs are neutered, chipped and not allowed to wander, if bitches are mated accidentally then they are whisked to the vet asap. Then less responsibly is the backyard breeding of fashionable crossbreeds with no thought given to health or behaviour.
So as well as the issues noted about the actual difficulty of passing the suitability tests of UK rescues, the majority of dogs needing homes seem to all have problems. So I, along with so many others adopted a Cyprus bitch from a reputable charity, spayed, vaccinated, health checked with back up available. Mine is another GSD/Rottie/hound, she is absolutely no bother unless you are a squirrel, and I've had her 6 years. Mine is no street dog, she may be a lost dog or an abandoned dog but she adores people, especially men unusually for a rescue, and after a couple of mistakes was clearly house trained and polite.
 
Eh? You can't swing a cat for all the random crossbreeds that are on the main animal selling sites. And most of them aren't nefarious breeders breeding fashionable crosses, they are dogs within the same household or two dogs belong to friends/acquaintances with the same level of scrutiny and thought going into it as two dogs meeting while pottering around the same neighborhood. If your spec is indiscriminately bred mongrel then you can still pretty much have your pick in the UK.

Also, there were not many dogs just let out to wander the streets 32 years ago.
 
Lady Jane said:
I'd love an update and hope all is going well but with some of the responses and comments she received she may not feel inclined?
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they are doing very well, thanks for asking. The 8mo dog is excelling himself, very forward and totally loves people. He had several visitors, very friendly with everyone especially when they have brought him "gifts" He must have tried most makes of treats this last week. He is a total pleasure doing the heel stuff on a lead. The little bitch is still pretty timid. She comes out of her crate (has done since day 3) and plays and takes treats from us but is going to take a few more days yet.
They are going to work well together. She can easily stand up to him and just thinks he is a young pratt.

He has now forgotten the catchpole. The first day I even thought of a slip lead he laid on his back and was so unhappy. Now he accepts the slip lead and harness happily.

So far so good. I commented to the rescue how different they were to UK dogs especially 8 mo pups and they pointed out that they had had to grow up so fast it was survival not puppyhood which is a bit sad. I didn't set out to "save" foreign rescues but I did feel a bit of pride watching him revert from a Romanian street dog surviving to a UK puppy just playing.
 
Clodagh said:
But she would normally be posting in current affairs? I don’t think @paddy555 has ever shied from a lively debate.
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but she does shy from the nastiness that has become HHO on this thread and in fact has happened on some other threads in the past. .
I have not posted anywhere on the forum nor do I see the point in doing so again. Sometimes I look in and read it but that is all.

I replied to LJ as she and some others were kind in their earlier comments and wanted to update them.
 
paddy555 said:
but she does shy from the nastiness that has become HHO on this thread and in fact has happened on some other threads in the past. .
I have not posted anywhere on the forum nor do I see the point in doing so again. Sometimes I look in and read it but that is all.

I replied to LJ as she and some others were kind in their earlier comments and wanted to update them.
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I thought they’d probably eaten you in your kitchen, so I’m glad it’s going well.
 

🔹
"Re-test >3 months post-import to account for seroconversion."


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Tiddlypom said:
Thanks for posting.

I wonder if the importers of foreign ‘rescue’ dogs from the higher risk countries are fully upfront about this with those who take these dogs on?
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I don't know about other countries as they make up a very small proportion of imported rescue dogs but in Romania many of the dogs had already been tested for brucella canis and the adopters were made aware of those results by the rescues (along with other health test results)

That is the reason that these adopters are somewhat unhappy now being required to test here. Their dogs may have been here many years, some even 10 years. Their vets have been made aware for much of that time that the dog tested neg. before import and had accepted that and had carried out invasive procedures with no problems, no mention of testing etc. Those adopters are now querying why vets had been happy to deal with their dogs for many years and are now demanding a blood test.

If Brucella canis was/is such a serious problem why didn't DEFRA do something years ago? Why has it now only just occurred to vets to require clients imported dogs be BC tested? If they were happy to do a procedure on a client's dog 3 years ago why not now? Nothing about the dog has changed. If it is unsafe to operate now on a BC positive dog without full PPE why was it safe 3 years ago?
 
paddy555 said:
I don't know about other countries as they make up a very small proportion of imported rescue dogs but in Romania many of the dogs had already been tested for brucella canis and the adopters were made aware of those results by the rescues (along with other health test results)

That is the reason that these adopters are somewhat unhappy now being required to test here. Their dogs may have been here many years, some even 10 years. Their vets have been made aware for much of that time that the dog tested neg. before import and had accepted that and had carried out invasive procedures with no problems, no mention of testing etc. Those adopters are now querying why vets had been happy to deal with their dogs for many years and are now demanding a blood test.

If Brucella canis was/is such a serious problem why didn't DEFRA do something years ago? Why has it now only just occurred to vets to require clients imported dogs be BC tested? If they were happy to do a procedure on a client's dog 3 years ago why not now? Nothing about the dog has changed. If it is unsafe to operate now on a BC positive dog without full PPE why was it safe 3 years ago?
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It wasn't safe, the vets just didn't realise the extent of imported dogs with dodgy paperwork at the time
 
druid said:
It wasn't safe, the vets just didn't realise the extent of imported dogs with dodgy paperwork at the time
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so if it wasn't safe what did you do when a client brought in an overseas dog? presumably a vet would have been aware of BC, why didn't they test before treating to make sure.If BC is so important then surely they would have snap tested?
As far as dodgy paperwork goes then my test results (from Romania) for brucella, giardia, leish, erch etc etc were provided on a vet's statement/invoice/bill, Wouldn't a vet have looked at this documentation when the client brought it in to see if it was likely to be valid? If they had doubts wouldn't they have asked for testing? As a matter of interest my Romanian tests results agreed those done by my UK vet. I just wondered if they would do.


ester said:
Just because it wasn’t identified as a problem then doesn’t mean it’s not a problem now.
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I cannot see any difference in the time.
My question is why didn't anyone do anything before? Vets and DEFRA seem to have had their heads in the sand. Even now why aren't DEFRA requiring testing of all foreign imports from suspect areas.

What would be very interesting would be to have a sample of say 100 UK dogs APHA tested to see their results.
 
Jesus if we didn't retrospectively
paddy555 said:
so if it wasn't safe what did you do when a client brought in an overseas dog? presumably a vet would have been aware of BC, why didn't they test before treating to make sure.If BC is so important then surely they would have snap tested?
As far as dodgy paperwork goes then my test results (from Romania) for brucella, giardia, leish, erch etc etc were provided on a vet's statement/invoice/bill, Wouldn't a vet have looked at this documentation when the client brought it in to see if it was likely to be valid? If they had doubts wouldn't they have asked for testing? As a matter of interest my Romanian tests results agreed those done by my UK vet. I just wondered if they would do.




I cannot see any difference in the time.
My question is why didn't anyone do anything before? Vets and DEFRA seem to have had their heads in the sand. Even now why aren't DEFRA requiring testing of all foreign imports from suspect areas.

What would be very interesting would be to have a sample of say 100 UK dogs APHA tested to see their results.
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There is many instances of forged veterinary documents from Romania, Russia, Egypt and other common import countries. Forged Rabies documents are exactly the reason the USA banned pups under 6 months from being imported....!

It's great that your dog has the all clear, not all have been negative or we wouldn't be in this situation.
 
paddy555 said:
I cannot see any difference in the time.
My question is why didn't anyone do anything before? Vets and DEFRA seem to have had their heads in the sand. Even now why aren't DEFRA requiring testing of all foreign imports from suspect areas.

What would be very interesting would be to have a sample of say 100 UK dogs APHA tested to see their results.
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This doesn't make sense, of course time often leads to greater understanding, as with time more information often becomes apparent. Otherwise we might as well not bother doing any science at all.

People used to handle bats in this country without gloves until someone got rabies and protocols got changed.
 
Clodagh said:
Never mind, I’m sure brucellosis isn’t that bad really. Silly vets, being so picky.
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not sure what your comment means. It seems a bit silly to me.

I am not questioning BC testing. I am simply asking why vets and DEFRA didn't do this long ago. Why vets were willing to carry out procedures without testing when they must have been aware of BC in imported dogs. They could, and possibly should, have tested. The rescue my dogs came from started APHA testing a couple of years ago. That was on a voluntary basis, it was not required. So if they were aware UK vets would have been. Other rescues did test for Brucella it was just not the APHA test so the need to BC test was known for a long time.

druid said:
There is many instances of forged veterinary documents from Romania, Russia, Egypt and other common import countries. Forged Rabies documents are exactly the reason the USA banned pups under 6 months from being imported....!

It's great that your dog has the all clear, not all have been negative or we wouldn't be in this situation.
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re your first para in that case surely there would have been even more red flags to check the paper work if you were going to work on an imported dog and you would have tested. If it had become clear then from testing that there were a number of positives procedures re import could have been put in place earlier and less positive dogs would have been imported. , Not sure why the testing requirements now are so limited if we are trying to prevent BC positive dogs coming in but still.

The point that is unclear to me is that now vets are refusing BC + dogs or wanting PPE or wanting tests etc etc all of a sudden yet in the past, let's say only one or 2 years ago, they were apparently happy not even to snap test.

re your 2nd para if my dogs were not clear they would not have been allowed to be imported full stop.
 
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