Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad

Risk assessments are subject to review and can change as new evidence emerges or perceptions of risk / what is and is not an acceptable risk changes.

It used to be common practice to manually hold small animal patients still for X-rays in this country (including sometimes having human body parts eg fingers in the primary beam) and still is in a lot of Europe I think. But then it was decided in the UK that practice was poor health & safety & this was a risk that shouldn’t be routinely taken due to the potential cumulative effects / that there were safer ways of doing things. It didn’t suddenly become less safe to do this one day, the risk always existed but our perception of how safe and appropriate it was changed over time. (& then obviously official guidance was issued saying this must not be done)

It didn’t suddenly become unsafe to handle imported dogs of unknown Brucella status / dogs who hadn’t been retested 3+ months after entry without PPE. The risk was always there it just wasn’t as widely known about & most practices won’t have had a specific protocol for it or thought about it all that much.

The issue has in the last few years had a lot more publicity and attention and a lot more official guidance has been issued. (From back end of 2023 - start of 2024 onwards & then obviously the recent updates to testing requirements). This is likely because pre 2020 (& pre resulting dog importing boom) this was a very rare disease to see in this country so it won’t really have been on the radar of most vets unless they happened to see a lot of imported dogs (which in themselves used to be a lot rarer than they are now). As this is still all fairly recent then it’s likely guidance will keep evolving over time for a while yet.


Employers have a duty to protect their staff under COSHH & RIDDOR (& in the case of vet practices their other patients too) so they have to follow the guidance as it changes even if that means upsetting people or doing something different to what they were doing before.
 
Oh & re why DEFRA isn’t requiring testing from other high risk countries, why indeed?! Actually agree that it would make way more sense to require the same level of testing from anywhere deemed as high risk (guessing they’re going after where numerically highest no of imports come from but yeah a bit weird)

And a lot of practices DID start implementing protocols for imported dogs of unknown BC status a few years ago and certainly the external veterinary laboratories have been asking about possible BC risk for any samples submitted for several years now (my guess is that there’s just a lot of reviewing going on ATM due to recent updates & perhaps some that are catching up to what’s been going on for a few years elsewhere)
 
Boulty said:
Oh & re why DEFRA isn’t requiring testing from other high risk countries, why indeed?! Actually agree that it would make way more sense to require the same level of testing from anywhere deemed as high risk (guessing they’re going after where numerically highest no of imports come from but yeah a bit weird)
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The information I shared from my vets above lists low and very low risk countries and states everywhere else is medium/high risk and dogs from there will require testing.
 
MurphysMinder said:
The information I shared from my vets above lists low and very low risk countries and states everywhere else is medium/high risk and dogs from there will require testing.
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your vet is talking about them testing their client's dogs. This is a choice for their clients.. Not compulsory. When I refer to testing I am talking about this

Boulty said:
Oh & re why DEFRA isn’t requiring testing from other high risk countries, why indeed?! Actually agree that it would make way more sense to require the same level of testing from anywhere deemed as high risk (guessing they’re going after where numerically highest no of imports come from but yeah a bit weird)
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I agree. For anyone who doesn't realise ATM testing is compulsory only for Romanian imports ie commercially imported and charity imports. Why would "ordinary" pet dogs and competition dogs from Romania be clear of it when they come into the UK even for a visit? Shouldn't they also have an APHA cert.. on entry. Equally dogs from other countries. If importing BC is a problem then it doesn't stop at the Romanian border. The dog 10 miles on the other side of the border is equally infected (or not)

as for dogs from long risk countries then, AFAIK, they do not have BC testing as such so how do we know the extent of BC in their country?


rabatsa said:
Dogs used to have to undergo 6 months of quarantine on entering the country. Bring back that and MAFF, get rid of DEFRA. Both were moves that were to please the masses.
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I remember those days. BC can of course be tested for very quickly in around 7 days. (or even less by fast tracking)
it does raise the question of what happens to people taking their dogs on holiday to Europe.. They too could be causing a problem. If we are trying to keep BC out or under control shouldn't they be tested on re entry (by DEFRA) Their vet will be just as much at risk if they are infected but, unless the owner owns up to taking the pooch abroad which they are unlikely to do, there is no way of knowing.


this is an AI overview from google (for people on holiday)


Yes, there is a risk
, but you can lower it by taking precautions such as keeping your dog on a lead and avoiding contact with local dogs, especially stray or unknown ones, as the disease is more prevalent in certain countries. The risk is lower in Western Europe compared to Eastern Europe, but the disease is present in many parts of the world.
 
Brucella canis update:
During 2020 and 2021 there was a significant increase in the importation of dogs from Romania and other countries, to supply the demand for dog ownership at that time. Puppy breeders abroad quickly responded to the demand for "rescue" dogs in the UK. Since that time UK vets have been detecting cases of Brucella canis, mostly in dogs that have been imported from certain countries. Whilst we have been dealing with Brucella in cattle in the UK and have strict enforcement and screening in place, there have previously been no concerns about Brucella canis in dogs. Although the risk of infection is considered to be low, Brucella canis can cause serious and life changing disease in people. Since the first cases started occurring in the UK several vet practices, including Langford Vets, have introduced screening tests for dogs that have travelled outside of the UK or were born in higher risk countries. At Langford Vets, we also recommend screening any dogs that have mated with dogs from higher risk countries.

Blood tests are sent to APHA laboratory (the government laboratory used for detecting infectious diseases), unfortunately, we have sadly received positive test results for two of our patients in October.

Brucella canis is now recognised by the UK government as a reportable disease. This means that any detected cases have to be reported to the animal and human health agencies so that any humans that may have been exposed to infection are given appropriate information and seek medical care if necessary. Unfortunately, whilst symptoms can be managed in dogs using high dose combined antibiotics, the condition is not curable. An infected dog will be infected for life, currently there is not a legal requirement to euthanase infected dogs.

Further information can be found on our website. It is vital that you let your vet know if your dog was born or travelled abroad. It is now routine practice for practices to ask about travel history when taking your dog to the vets. Brucella | Langford Vets

Kind regards
Langford Vet Practice

My Romanian rescue dog was tested at this practice in 2022 and she was negative buts its worrying that there were 2 cases in October. For too long some rescues have refused to comply with any testing or appropriate vaccinations,sadly money is driving this not animal welfare and sadly there are not enough government agencies to intercept these dogs on arrival into this country.
 
skinnydipper said:
One owner said "Positive on IElisa.... I just carry on as I always have..no changes !" 😲
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AFAIK there are no government regulations preventing this.

skinnydipper said:
Two dogs positive for BC, one dog from Spain and another from Romania were negative on pre import testing.
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yes but with different tests that test for different areas. Obviously any coming in now from Romania will be negative on entry.

Dobiegirl said:
Brucella canis update:
in the UK several vet practices, including Langford Vets, have introduced screening tests for dogs that have travelled outside of the UK
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so if you take your dog on holiday abroad they are going to screen it for BC. That's going to be an awful lot of screening. How many people are going to get their dogs tested after going on their overseas hols. What happens if the dog is positive. That is going to have been an expensive holiday. :D
 
Brucellosis is a very nasty notifiable disease.

My childhood one man band vet (farm, equine, small) had it from cattle and was very ill indeed. So did Alf Wight (James Herriot).

The risks are absolutely not to be p1ssed about with.

www.nhs.uk

Brucellosis

Find out about brucellosis, including symptoms, what to do if you have it and treatments.
www.nhs.uk www.nhs.uk
 
paddy555 said:
AFAIK there are no government regulations preventing this.


yes but with different tests that test for different areas. Obviously any coming in now from Romania will be negative on entry.


so if you take your dog on holiday abroad they are going to screen it for BC. That's going to be an awful lot of screening. How many people are going to get their dogs tested after going on their overseas hols. What happens if the dog is positive. That is going to have been an expensive holiday. :D
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I’m not sure why you are so against a testing regime.
I imported my dog from Australia back in the 6 months quarantine days. I still paid extra for heartworm testing as it didn’t routinely exist here in those days but was endemic in Oz. I very much did not want to risk the native dog population.
Why are you so offended by dogs being tested?
 
paddy555 said:
so if you take your dog on holiday abroad they are going to screen it for BC. That's going to be an awful lot of screening. How many people are going to get their dogs tested after going on their overseas hols. What happens if the dog is positive. That is going to have been an expensive holiday. :D
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People could just not go abroad on holiday with their dog? Why risk their health when there’s plenty of lovely places they could visit at home?
 
Clodagh said:
I’m not sure why you are so against a testing regime.
I imported my dog from Australia back in the 6 months quarantine days. I still paid extra for heartworm testing as it didn’t routinely exist here in those days but was endemic in Oz. I very much did not want to risk the native dog population.
Why are you so offended by dogs being tested?
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I'm not so sure why you are so against reading my comments so you are actually replying to them but there you go. :rolleyes:
 
skinnydipper said:
As BC has an incubation period of up to 3 months, dogs should be retested in the UK 3 months post import.
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I replied to your post 223. They were different tests ie different types of tests regardless of the time interval. The dogs from Spain and Romania you mentioned I doubt were APHA tested in the first place. The Romanian one if imported now would be APHA negative on import. I'm not sure why similar import regs now don't apply to Spain and anywhere else, nor indeed to pets/competition dogs brought in from places such as Romania. And no Clodagh I would not be in the slightest offended if those other imported dogs were tested nor would I be in the slighted offended if holiday dogs were tested before coming back into the UK although I realise that will never happen.

skinnydipper said:
Pretty selfish to put other people's dogs at risk.
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that is a point however there can be any number of dogs putting others at risk in all areas not just BC. Dog owners are overall pretty selfish in their control of their dogs. The dog who has just come home from his stay at his owner's holiday home in Spain or wherever and who has spent his summer hols running around loose and mixing with local dogs, as he does several times a year could just as easily be bringing BC in. See Langfords comment in post 222. So in theory that UK dog could now have the potential to infect say a Romanian already imported dog (mine even) who is tested negative. Many people in the UK don't control their dogs out walking ie they let them have contact with others, often out of control, so I doubt they are going to be very different when on holiday.

So I suppose strictly all these holiday dogs should be tested before coming home if the same condition applied to them as it now does to Romanian dogs. If positive they wouldn't be able to come home. If negative they would have to be retested in 3 months time. None of that is ever going to happen.
Then we have the question as to how much BC there is in the current UK dog population. There is no testing, I cannot find any evidence giving figures for this.
 
paddy555 said:
They were different tests ie different types of tests regardless of the time interval. The dogs from Spain and Romania you mentioned I doubt were APHA tested in the first place. The Romanian one if imported now would be APHA negative on import.
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They should still be retested 3 months post import as they could be negative at the time of import and positive 3 months later as it can take up to 12 weeks to produce antibodies
 
skinnydipper said:
They should still be retested 3 months post import as they could be negative at the time of import and positive 3 months later as it can take up to 12 weeks to produce antibodies
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I'm sorry you are missing the point so I give up. They may well not be negative at the time of import dependent upon the test. I presume you realise we are talking about 2 different sorts of tests.
There is AFAIK no legal requirement for a 3 month test, and in fact the only legal requirement is for a negative APHA test taken within 30 days of blood being drawn at importation for Romanian rescues (and commercial imports) not even for Romanian pets. The requests for tests come from vets. They are not compulsory. (by law) Different vets have different policies.

you didn't comment on the points I made about holiday dogs. Bit surprising as you seem so concerned. What are your views on this aspect of potential BC?
 
paddy555 said:
I'm sorry you are missing the point so I give up. They may well not be negative at the time of import dependent upon the test. I presume you realise we are talking about 2 different sorts of tests.
There is AFAIK no legal requirement for a 3 month test, and in fact the only legal requirement is for a negative APHA test taken within 30 days of blood being drawn at importation for Romanian rescues (and commercial imports) not even for Romanian pets. The requests for tests come from vets. They are not compulsory. (by law) Different vets have different policies.

you didn't comment on the points I made about holiday dogs. Bit surprising as you seem so concerned. What are your views on this aspect of potential BC?
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What point did SD miss?

It not being a legal requirement but not detract from the reality that dogs should be retested.

As for holiday dogs being imported, im sure all of us concerned would welcome testing for all imports, including pets coming home from holiday.
 
And I’m sure it’ll come.

It’s just a tiny minority of animals compared to the ‘rescue’ mission. 1 step at a time focusing on the biggest concerns first.

To register a dog on our vet system it asks has the dog travelled. It doesn’t specify as an import or on holiday. And if the answer for that is yes or unknown you’re flagged as an at risk dog until more info is known.
 
paddy555 said:
I'm sorry you are missing the point so I give up. They may well not be negative at the time of import dependent upon the test. I presume you realise we are talking about 2 different sorts of tests.
There is AFAIK no legal requirement for a 3 month test, and in fact the only legal requirement is for a negative APHA test taken within 30 days of blood being drawn at importation for Romanian rescues (and commercial imports) not even for Romanian pets. The requests for tests come from vets. They are not compulsory. (by law) Different vets have different policies.

you didn't comment on the points I made about holiday dogs. Bit surprising as you seem so concerned. What are your views on this aspect of potential BC?
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That's funny, I thought it was you that was missing the point 🤣. I'm sure responsible owners will get their dog retested 3 months after arrival in the UK :) and if positive they will do the decent thing and keep their dog on their own property and not risk infecting other people's dogs.

Testing dogs coming from a country where Brucella Canis is endemic is a start. I'm sure you will agree that there is a greater likelihood of them being infected than someone's dog getting infected while on holiday. Hopefully in time testing will extend to all imported dogs.
 
skinnydipper said:
. I'm sure you will agree that there is a greater likelihood of them being infected than someone's dog getting infected while on holiday. Hopefully in time testing will extend to all imported dogs.
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who knows what the current state of BC is. Presumably Langford think there is a reason to test those who have spent time outside the UK. I was surprised when I read that 2 out of 80 stud dogs used by guide dogs had tested positive. Their only explanation was false positives. How accurate is the test anyway. They may have a point, my dog was tested twice a month apart. One would think the results would be very similar over such a short period but there was a lot of difference. I was delighted both were very negative but it didn't give me much confidence in the testing.

I am at a loss as to why it will take time for testing to be extended to other imports. For Romanians it came in with no warning, just came in overnight so it can't be that difficult to extend it to all imports. Wherever I look there is just no detailed info about numbers.

Clodagh said:
How many people love their dogs enough to go through all the hoops to transport it to Europe then let it run freely with the local stray population before bringing it back to the UK?
If I took my dog abroad I’d probably take a lead with me.
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Most people cannot understand keeping a dog on a lead in the UK so why on earth would they understand it would be any different on their hols. They want to enjoy themselves and meet the locals so why should pooch be any different. Nice he can be friendly with the local dogs.

On a more serious note how many would even think to consider the local "dog" illnesses? I'm sure those on here may research it down to the "n" the degree but I doubt many others would
 
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