Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad

The APHA do cover the 'how accurate are the tests anyway?'

92% sensitivity
99% sensitivity

and they have a nice graph for positive predictive values
Figure_1.png
 
Tiddlypom said:
Brucellosis is a very nasty notifiable disease.

My childhood one man band vet (farm, equine, small) had it from cattle and was very ill indeed. So did Alf Wight (James Herriot).

The risks are absolutely not to be p1ssed about with.

www.nhs.uk

Brucellosis

Find out about brucellosis, including symptoms, what to do if you have it and treatments.
www.nhs.uk www.nhs.uk
Click to expand...
If James Herriot had it he couldn't have caight it from an imported dog as there werent't any imports then? Or have I misunderstood?
 
From Gov.uk.

www.gov.uk

Brucella canis: information for the public and dog owners

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk


B. canis in dogs​

There has recently been an increase in the number of dogs being diagnosed with B. canis in the UK with 3 diagnoses pre-2020 and 97 diagnoses in 2023 (to June 2023). Most cases have been in dogs imported into the UK from Eastern Europe, or linked to imported dogs from Eastern Europe.

All UK cases have been in dogs that have either been imported, have mated with an imported dog, have had contact with the birthing products of an imported dog, or are the offspring (puppy) of an imported dog.
Lady Jane said:
If James Herriot had it he couldn't have caight it from an imported dog as there werent't any imports then? Or have I misunderstood?
Click to expand...
He caught it from cattle as did my own vet.
 
Tiddlypom said:
From Gov.uk.

www.gov.uk

Brucella canis: information for the public and dog owners

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk


B. canis in dogs​

There has recently been an increase in the number of dogs being diagnosed with B. canis in the UK with 3 diagnoses pre-2020 and 97 diagnoses in 2023 (to June 2023). Most cases have been in dogs imported into the UK from Eastern Europe, or linked to imported dogs from Eastern Europe.

All UK cases have been in dogs that have either been imported, have mated with an imported dog, have had contact with the birthing products of an imported dog, or are the offspring (puppy) of an imported dog.

He caught it from cattle as did my own vet.
Click to expand...
Sorry cross posted
 

What is Brucellosis?​

Brucellosis is a disease caused by a bacteria called Brucella canis. There are several other types of Brucella which can affect different species. B. canis is generally viewed as an infection in dogs however can affect other species including humans, cats or foxes if they are in close contact.

Brucellosis is routinely present in large parts of the world’s dog population and is particularly prevalent in Romania and the surrounding countries. It is currently rare in the UK, however with the increase in popularity in re-homing and rescuing dogs from abroad we are starting to see an increase in cases of Brucellosis here in the UK.

Symptoms in Dogs​

Clinical Brucellosis is currently very rare in the UK, but signs may include spinal pain, testicular pain or swelling, discharge from the vulva or penis, infertility, abortion or eye problems. However, most of the infected dogs we see do not show any symptoms.


Infected dogs can shed bacteria in any bodily fluid. Reproductive fluids (including milk) pose the highest risk but blood, saliva, nasal secretions, urine, faeces and joint fluid can also contain the bacteria.


All imported dogs should have a blood test to see if they have the disease. It can take up to three months for evidence of antibodies to be present blood following infection so newly imported dogs should have a blood test at their first appointment with the vets and they may need a repeat blood test when three months has passed. Imported dogs that have been in this country for more than three months are likely to only need one blood test. Dogs that are infected as young puppies may take longer to show antibodies so these will need a test once they are over 1 year old.


 
Last edited:
Tiddlypom said:
Brucellosis is a very nasty notifiable disease.

My childhood one man band vet (farm, equine, small) had it from cattle and was very ill indeed. So did Alf Wight (James Herriot).

The risks are absolutely not to be p1ssed about with.

www.nhs.uk

Brucellosis

Find out about brucellosis, including symptoms, what to do if you have it and treatments.
www.nhs.uk www.nhs.uk
Click to expand...
My vet had it too. It doesn't go away but flares up every so often. Very unpleasant.
 
I have read every reply on this thread. I have owned and kept until PTS through old age or ill health, 2 pedigree SS (puppies from breeders at the same time), 2 pedigree bull mastiffs (from local kennels, at different times), A doberman (older lady from kennels). Then 8/9 years ago I got my first import (Crete) she was 7-8 months old, 3 months later we got her a friend import (Portugal). We went for an import after being rejected by a couple of re homing centres due to us both working. We introduced them the same way we introduced the 2 SS to the first mastiff and all subsequent dogs thereafter. never had any issues. We lost our beautiful Portuguese girl over a month ago to cancer. The older lady who has never been on her own was not coping well and we knew we would want another at some point so I started looking.

We wanted over 4, female, good with another dog, can be left for a short period, small to medium size (cocker size at most), we are experienced with nervous, reactive, large dogs . OH wanted something like a pointer/hound. I checked every website up to 100 miles distance, showed him picture and picture. In the end I handed him my phone with a FB page that had loads of re-homing/rescue centre listed in one place and let him pick. He showed me the one he liked the look off, I read the details and contacted the site. She was about a 3 hour drive from us, I chatted to the foster she had been in the UK for 6 months with another dog. We didn't go out to get another rescue she just found my OH. She is from Cyprus, has had all the tests. She is a cracker we adore her, she is nervous of load noises, that is a slow process on walks. but couldn't be happier with her and my older girl is back to her normal self.

We did not go into it blind and checked out the companies and ensured that all the tests had been completed and we received the copies of the paperwork.
 
Ouch05 said:
I have read every reply on this thread. I have owned and kept until PTS through old age or ill health, 2 pedigree SS (puppies from breeders at the same time), 2 pedigree bull mastiffs (from local kennels, at different times), A doberman (older lady from kennels). Then 8/9 years ago I got my first import (Crete) she was 7-8 months old, 3 months later we got her a friend import (Portugal). We went for an import after being rejected by a couple of re homing centres due to us both working. We introduced them the same way we introduced the 2 SS to the first mastiff and all subsequent dogs thereafter. never had any issues. We lost our beautiful Portuguese girl over a month ago to cancer. The older lady who has never been on her own was not coping well and we knew we would want another at some point so I started looking.

We wanted over 4, female, good with another dog, can be left for a short period, small to medium size (cocker size at most), we are experienced with nervous, reactive, large dogs . OH wanted something like a pointer/hound. I checked every website up to 100 miles distance, showed him picture and picture. In the end I handed him my phone with a FB page that had loads of re-homing/rescue centre listed in one place and let him pick. He showed me the one he liked the look off, I read the details and contacted the site. She was about a 3 hour drive from us, I chatted to the foster she had been in the UK for 6 months with another dog. We didn't go out to get another rescue she just found my OH. She is from Cyprus, has had all the tests. She is a cracker we adore her, she is nervous of load noises, that is a slow process on walks. but couldn't be happier with her and my older girl is back to her normal self.

We did not go into it blind and checked out the companies and ensured that all the tests had been completed and we received the copies of the paperwork.
Click to expand...

I’m so glad your old dog is happy with her new friend and you’re enjoying your new dog.

I assume from what you’ve written that someone imported your new dog into the uk just for her to end up in a shelter here?
I guess that would be another reason people might be against importing dogs. Our rescues and shelters are bursting at the seams without adding other countries dogs to them.

It’s great that your dog has landed on her feet with you but that must’ve been a stressful time for her until she came to you.
 
I haven't travelled outside the country with my dogs since 2019 but there is no way they would have been allowed to mingle with any strange dogs, nor do I know anyone who would allow this?! Rather strange concept.
I don't think people going on holiday or competing with one or two pet dogs and have done all their tests and paperwork, have ever been the problem, but those are the people who will be punished because of the actions of others who abandon all their previous concerns once they hear a sad story or can't get exactly what they want, when they want it.

It's also really interesting that in the sporting world, that in a lot of these countries that are wholesale exporting their dogs to the UK, people are importing dogs from other countries to compete with, generally, because their breeding programmes are better.

And another interesting thing to observe are those people who are very worried about an influx of human beings of unknown temperament and health from other countries, but are all for it when it comes to animals!

Foreign rescue is now an industry/business, like it or not. Be careful what you might be funding.
 
paddy555 said:
AFAIK there are no government regulations preventing this.


yes but with different tests that test for different areas. Obviously any coming in now from Romania will be negative on entry.


so if you take your dog on holiday abroad they are going to screen it for BC. That's going to be an awful lot of screening. How many people are going to get their dogs tested after going on their overseas hols. What happens if the dog is positive. That is going to have been an expensive holiday. :D
Click to expand...

Standard practice. They need a pet passport and to see a vet before going out and before coming back.
 
Peglo said:
People could just not go abroad on holiday with their dog? Why risk their health when there’s plenty of lovely places they could visit at home?
Click to expand...

I was planning to travel round Europe with mine, but I'm having a long hard think about whether its worth it to me to put them at risk
 
I'm Dun said:
Standard practice. They need a pet passport and to see a vet before going out and before coming back.
Click to expand...
but standard practice has not included an APHA bc test has it? From Langfords comments it apparently now is going to do for them and presumably whichever other vets decide to do the same.
 
Peglo said:
I’m so glad your old dog is happy with her new friend and you’re enjoying your new dog.

I assume from what you’ve written that someone imported your new dog into the uk just for her to end up in a shelter here?
I guess that would be another reason people might be against importing dogs. Our rescues and shelters are bursting at the seams without adding other countries dogs to them.

It’s great that your dog has landed on her feet with you but that must’ve been a stressful time for her until she came to you.
Click to expand...
I read Ouch's comment to be that her dog had been in the UK for 6 months with a foster. If that was the case then it wasn't taking up a UK rescue and shelter space. It is normal for foreign dogs to be imported and placed with foster mums for some time and then adopted from there when they will have spent some time in the UK. People foster for the foreign rescues.

as for UK rescues then I am sure that for many they are part of the problem. Why are they bursting at the seams? Firstly why are all these dogs ending up in rescues. Some have legitimate reasons eg divorce and death etc but what about the rest? Seems to me that perhaps owners here could be making a little more effort with their dogs perhaps. That may not be a very popular view I appreciate. I have endless FB stuff coming up re GSD's for adoption (UK bred dogs) then I read the list of problems that come with them many of which appear to be man made. I expect many other breeds are the same. Why don't rescues get the flow of dogs going through more quickly to make spaces for more. Why are they so restrictive in their rehoming policy? so many questions about UK rescues.

I did go to one once a few years back. Far from impressed. No way would I ever have gone to one again. I would have rather have bought a puppy if I had actually set out to get another dog. (I didn't, I ended up with romanian rescues by chance)
It is a stressful time for any dog in a rescue. I would imagine it would have had a far less stressful time in a foster.
 
Lady Jane said:
If James Herriot had it he couldn't have caight it from an imported dog as there werent't any imports then? Or have I misunderstood?
Click to expand...
Think you have misunderstood……Tiddlypom was saying how serious and nasty brucellosis is….many years ago think 60 or so our farm vet (who was my uncle) was diagnosed with it….never fully recovered….
 
splashgirl45 said:
I just googled and it says between £475 & £550 on aver
Click to expand...
that's probably about right, it will have been less before and gone up to that now because of BC APHA testing.

My rescue charged £350. That was calculated before they realised they had to do a 2nd APHA test. Not all dogs cost the same to prepare for import to the UK. Some are far more costly, some cheaper it will
l depend upon the medical costs involved.
For mine £350 was a loss and a fairly large one yet still they requested their standard donation fee. As I was aware of all of their costs I obviously paid what it had cost them. If I hadn't the balance would have been made up by general donations to the rescue.

Marshpiper said:
Think you have misunderstood……Tiddlypom was saying how serious and nasty brucellosis is….many years ago think 60 or so our farm vet (who was my uncle) was diagnosed with it….never fully recovered….
Click to expand...
I 'm not sure she misunderstood as we are on a dog forum and presumably discussing brucella Canis. Or at least I think it was dogs I imported and not cows. :)
 
Brucellosis in cattle, brucella abortus, used to be common in cattle but has now been eradicated, many farm workers and vets caught it. I worked with dairy cattle for a time and it was always a worry. When I was a child in France, milk came straight from farms and we all knew we had to simmer it for twenty minutes before using it to avoid TB and brucellosis. We had a handy little pyrex disk in the bottom of the saucepan to stop the milk boiling over. Sorry, I am derailing the thread.
 
Ouch05 said:
We did not go into it blind and checked out the companies and ensured that all the tests had been completed and we received the copies of the paperwork
Click to expand...

Leishmaniasis, which is endemic in Cyprus, can lie dormant for years before it becomes active so unfortunately a negative test isn't a guarantee that the dog will not go on to develop Leishmaniasis at some point in the future.
 
Last edited:
paddy555 said:
I read Ouch's comment to be that her dog had been in the UK for 6 months with a foster. If that was the case then it wasn't taking up a UK rescue and shelter space. It is normal for foreign dogs to be imported and placed with foster mums for some time and then adopted from there when they will have spent some time in the UK. People foster for the foreign rescues.

as for UK rescues then I am sure that for many they are part of the problem. Why are they bursting at the seams? Firstly why are all these dogs ending up in rescues. Some have legitimate reasons eg divorce and death etc but what about the rest? Seems to me that perhaps owners here could be making a little more effort with their dogs perhaps. That may not be a very popular view I appreciate. I have endless FB stuff coming up re GSD's for adoption (UK bred dogs) then I read the list of problems that come with them many of which appear to be man made. I expect many other breeds are the same. Why don't rescues get the flow of dogs going through more quickly to make spaces for more. Why are they so restrictive in their rehoming policy? so many questions about UK rescues.

I did go to one once a few years back. Far from impressed. No way would I ever have gone to one again. I would have rather have bought a puppy if I had actually set out to get another dog. (I didn't, I ended up with romanian rescues by chance)
It is a stressful time for any dog in a rescue. I would imagine it would have had a far less stressful time in a foster.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. I assumed when they said rescue/rehomed it must’ve been from a shelter or rescue centre.

And I completely agree the people who have gotten unsuitable dogs and then put them in shelters once they become problematic are to blame. So many then have issues that they can’t be put in homes with other dogs, cats or children so a lot of good homes aren’t suitable for them.

But I just don’t think importing street dogs and expecting them to be pets in a completely different environment to what they’re used to is going to help matters.

As you say it’s worked well for you so far and for Ouch but their dog obviously wasn’t imported for them like yours was so could’ve ended up in any number of unsuitable homes to then find themselves in a shelter with problems. There’s no guarantee where these dogs are ending up or if the people adopting them know what they are doing.
ETA or care about vaccinations or disease.
 
Clodagh said:
So if you say £500 a dog, and three bus loads came over in one delivery (Paddy’s) it’s not a bad earner, is it? I can’t remember how many were on the buses.
Click to expand...
no it's a very good earner on that basis but I cannot see that you have taken expenses into account?
 
Peglo said:
Ah I see. I assumed when they said rescue/rehomed it must’ve been from a shelter or rescue centre.

And I completely agree the people who have gotten unsuitable dogs and then put them in shelters once they become problematic are to blame. So many then have issues that they can’t be put in homes with other dogs, cats or children so a lot of good homes aren’t suitable for them.

But I just don’t think importing street dogs and expecting them to be pets in a completely different environment to what they’re used to is going to help matters.

As you say it’s worked well for you so far and for Ouch but their dog obviously wasn’t imported for them like yours was so could’ve ended up in any number of unsuitable homes to then find themselves in a shelter with problems. There’s no guarantee where these dogs are ending up or if the people adopting them know what they are doing.
ETA or care about vaccinations or disease.
Click to expand...
everyone does like to put a bias on foreign imports and that is fine if people don't think dogs should be imported, some are happy they are and others don't agree as with many things in life.

If Ouch's dog was in a foster home then it would have had the advantages that she could visit and meet the dog and see if they got on. I'm not sure why you would think it could have ended up in any number of unsuitable homes, I would have thought that a fostered foreign rescue would be more likely to be successful. That is really no different from a normal UK rescue. There would have been a lot of info available from the foster parent and the dog would have been living in a home not shelter kennels.
Many dogs are returned to dog rescues/shelters ie UK dogs as the placement doesn't work out.

my dog (we started off with one) wasn't imported for me as such. He was simply a dog, a street dog, advertised on a rescue site that I fell for, passed the home check and was therefore able to adopt him. My second dog started off as I volunteered to foster her to help the rescue and decided to keep her as well when she arrived. She was also a street dog. So I suppose they had more potential to go wrong arriving unseen than a UK fostered one but they were fine.

You would be surprised how soon many street dogs adapt both from my own experience and that of others I know. Many people repeat that street dogs cannot become pets but that is usually based on what they have read or biased TV documentaries rather than what they have done themselves. It is no different taking a foreign dog or a UK rescue dog. Rescue dogs come with potential problems, in the UK most wouldn't be in rescues if they were perfect. Some people adopt from rescues, possibly lie to get accepted for a dog anyway, and then make endless mistakes in trying to settle the dog in or don't give them sufficient time to adapt.

when the dogs arrived in the UK we were linked to the bus cameras and could watch as everyone's dogs were unloaded, usually handed to the new owner outside (they were that tame and it was safe to do so with a slip lead) and then they posted pics/videos as they took their dogs into their house. Several of those dogs had moved onto the sofa very quickly. There were many that you could see from the owners and dogs that it was going to work out well.

I am not sure what your ETA care about vaccinations or disease means? the dogs arrive with a passport full of vaccinations and lots of disease checks and other treatments having been done. They also arrive since 7/10 BC tested from Romania. I don't think that those who adopt them care any less about vaccinations or disease than the average UK owner. It is a bit insulting really to suggest that they would do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top