Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad

My experience has been the opposite of the above examples so from that I could say that all are good as that's all I've seen of overseas rescues 🤷‍♀️
I don't disagree that there are bad rescues, there's bad rescues and breeders here too but I don't think I and others should be vilified for giving our dog a home. There's responsible owners out there too.
 
Chippers1 said:
My experience has been the opposite of the above examples so from that I could say that all are good as that's all I've seen of overseas rescues 🤷‍♀️
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We are responding to the unfair assertion that everyone saying anything negative, is only doing so because of something they have read or seen in the media.

It simply isn't true.
 
Chippers1 said:
My experience has been the opposite of the above examples so from that I could say that all are good as that's all I've seen of overseas rescues 🤷‍♀️
I don't disagree that there are bad rescues, there's bad rescues and breeders here too but I don't think I and others should be vilified for giving our dog a home. There's responsible owners out there too.
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I don't think anyone is vilifying owners like yourself, people are just discussing the various issues with overseas rescues. Most of us are talking about experiences that we personally have had, along with more general concerns about biosecurity and the potential for bad actors within the lack of system and controls that the UK currently has.

People can appreciate what a good owner you seem to be, and think how great it is that you were able to offer a home to a dog that clearly suited both yourselves and the dog really well, while also thinking that industry of foreign rescue as a whole is concerning. The two sentiments are not mutually exclusive.

I've alluded on this thread to the fact that my small ginger dog not coming from a great place. I bought her off someone who was effectively a puppy dealer and had been cashing in on the covid dog demand boom. As demand cooled they had been left with quite a few dogs that were all crammed in a small terraced house and were never taken outside. Phoebe was 7 months old and was basically just terrified of everything. I paid them money (not much, they likely made quite a loss on her given that she had nice breeding on both sides) and took the dog. It all worked out well, she is a cracking dog with no real hangups and obviously I love her. But was it a responsible purchase? No. Would I be offended if someone from this forum said that in general sourcing a dog in this way has obvious issues? Also no.
 
CorvusCorax said:
So you have no practical experience or first hand eyewitness knowledge of people letting their dogs on holiday go mingling with others?

Please don't continue to accuse me and others of only basing our opinions on what we have read, because it's not true.
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my experience iro dogs mingling is people I know with holiday homes in Europe, they visit for long periods several times a year and their dogs go as well. Their dogs are loose (ie kept just as they would be in England) and will mingle if there are local dogs around. I know their dogs are also loose when back in England and meet others and are exercised over large areas. They would without any doubt at all be in contact with local dogs simply in view of the number of times they visit their holiday home. They and local dogs would be in contact with the same areas of ground.
That comment is not based on what I have read merely on people I know.

Without avoiding the issue can you or anyone else explain why Langford vets (and I know Langford influence other vets) would even think of testing dogs who had simply been abroad. I'm not accusing you of anything, I am simply asking why if there is no risk at all from dogs who have been abroad bringing in Langford would consider testing.
 
ester said:
What’s the problem with Langford protecting their staff?

I know they’ve previously had a large compensation payment made to a member of staff in sort of similar situ, they’re probably fairly risk averse these days, things definitely changed in the immediate aftermath
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absolutely no problem at all, of course they should protect their staff. What are they protecting them from? If BC is no problem from holiday dogs then it is clearly not from that. Or do they think it could be
 
Langford wanting to test does not mean that loads of UK pet dogs are being taken abroad and allowed to run around with any and all Street dogs in the area.

I should think that they don't know how many pet dogs are taken abroad, and they almost certainly have no knowledge of the management of each dog while abroad. Standard practice for risk assessment when you can't estimate the occurrence value with much accuracy is to assume high and mitigate as far as reasonably practicable. Screening tests for any dog that has been abroad seems reasonably practicable to me.
 
paddy555 said:
my experience iro dogs mingling is people I know with holiday homes in Europe, they visit for long periods several times a year and their dogs go as well. Their dogs are loose (ie kept just as they would be in England) and will mingle if there are local dogs around. I know their dogs are also loose when back in England and meet others and are exercised over large areas. They would without any doubt at all be in contact with local dogs simply in view of the number of times they visit their holiday home. They and local dogs would be in contact with the same areas of ground.
That comment is not based on what I have read merely on people I know.
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Well, that's pretty bananas behaviour that I've never heard of before.
 
blackcob said:
and had it shipped to their door in a van with a dozen others.
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there have been comments on transporting the dogs and I remember very clearly reading in the post on HHO on another thread a comment by a "dog person" on this thread that the dogs were thrown in the back of a van for their journey. Also comments about the length of the journey. The comment about thrown in the back of a van really upset me at the time when I read it. I was very worried from reading that comment about my dogs travelling to the UK. The reality is a lot different. The dogs left Romania around 7pm Tues and the ones in the London, essex, Berks areas were in the new homes by 7pm Thurs. So 2 days. The ones further afield in the UK were in their new homes by Fri eve so 3 days. Yes it's a long time but not that great a problem. They will be in their new homes or with a UK fosterer who will have experience. They won't be going anywhere.

To put the time into context there was a post on this thread from someone who had brought their dog back from Aus. I don't know the travel time but I would guess 2/3 days may cover it. So about the same. The dog was then quarantined in quarantine kennels for 6 months. To do that to a dog IMO is unacceptable. I do have experience of that as my best friend did it on returning from China. It was not good. Her next return from Korea she had her dog PTS. She didn't want to put it through that experience.
Up to people if they feel 6m quarantine (in the old days) perfectly acceptable however I don't think in comparison to that 2/3 days from Romania is much of a problem.

Deliver to their door per the quote. Yes the dogs come in a transit type van kitted out for dog transport. So it is a van. They do come with others however the are not "dumped in the back of a van" they are all in individual accommodation. Shipped to their door could sound dreadful almost dumped off on my doorstep. No it is a pretty good way in fact. The dogs go straight to their new home (or foster) they are carried off the vehicle (always on a slip lead to prevent accidents) by an experienced handler. (who has travelled with the dogs so is familiar with them) they are then carried inside if you wish. Some are so tame they can just be handed over outside but they will take them inside. Mine because there were 2 were carried into their new crates and shut in. So shipped to your door is excellent in avoiding escape or dogs having to travel onwards again. If I ever did this again I would be delighted with that method.

It also has the advantage that it does not further disrupt the dog and it can start to settle. Taken to a rescue centre for a few days would be a really bad idea as far as the dog and new owner were concerned who would then be left to take the dog home in their own car on their own.

I have personal experience of the transportation unlike most on here who think they do. If your new dog was going to be handed over to you in a car park then I would be seriously asking questions be it a Rommie, a UK rescue centre dog or a preloved one.


The dogs were fine, we watched them on cameras, their beds were clean, they were well fed. .. They were completely dry, clean and didn't smell.
A bid advantage of home delivery is a clean and dry dog. If you collect from a rescue centre you run the risk of a wet, shitty dog who hasn't travelled well in your car and has also been sick everywhere who is then even more disorientated with another move.

So that is reality but I realise for those anti on here it will not be as appealing as thrown in the back of a white van and dumped off at your door in the middle of the night.
Middle of the night BTW has nothing seedy about it. It is simply down to getting the dogs homed asap and the working around the hours and rest times etc for fitting in with the drivers.

I have no views if people should adopt from abroad or UK. Entirely up to them. If people don't approve of foreign rescues entirely their prerogative. However I am commenting to put reality.
 
paddy555 said:
there have been comments on transporting the dogs and I remember very clearly reading in the post on HHO on another thread a comment by a "dog person" on this thread that the dogs were thrown in the back of a van for their journey. Also comments about the length of the journey. The comment about thrown in the back of a van really upset me at the time when I read it. I was very worried from reading that comment about my dogs travelling to the UK. The reality is a lot different. The dogs left Romania around 7pm Tues and the ones in the London, essex, Berks areas were in the new homes by 7pm Thurs. So 2 days. The ones further afield in the UK were in their new homes by Fri eve so 3 days. Yes it's a long time but not that great a problem. They will be in their new homes or with a UK fosterer who will have experience. They won't be going anywhere.

To put the time into context there was a post on this thread from someone who had brought their dog back from Aus. I don't know the travel time but I would guess 2/3 days may cover it. So about the same. The dog was then quarantined in quarantine kennels for 6 months. To do that to a dog IMO is unacceptable. I do have experience of that as my best friend did it on returning from China. It was not good. Her next return from Korea she had her dog PTS. She didn't want to put it through that experience.
Up to people if they feel 6m quarantine (in the old days) perfectly acceptable however I don't think in comparison to that 2/3 days from Romania is much of a problem.

Deliver to their door per the quote. Yes the dogs come in a transit type van kitted out for dog transport. So it is a van. They do come with others however the are not "dumped in the back of a van" they are all in individual accommodation. Shipped to their door could sound dreadful almost dumped off on my doorstep. No it is a pretty good way in fact. The dogs go straight to their new home (or foster) they are carried off the vehicle (always on a slip lead to prevent accidents) by an experienced handler. (who has travelled with the dogs so is familiar with them) they are then carried inside if you wish. Some are so tame they can just be handed over outside but they will take them inside. Mine because there were 2 were carried into their new crates and shut in. So shipped to your door is excellent in avoiding escape or dogs having to travel onwards again. If I ever did this again I would be delighted with that method.

It also has the advantage that it does not further disrupt the dog and it can start to settle. Taken to a rescue centre for a few days would be a really bad idea as far as the dog and new owner were concerned who would then be left to take the dog home in their own car on their own.

I have personal experience of the transportation unlike most on here who think they do. If your new dog was going to be handed over to you in a car park then I would be seriously asking questions be it a Rommie, a UK rescue centre dog or a preloved one.


The dogs were fine, we watched them on cameras, their beds were clean, they were well fed. .. They were completely dry, clean and didn't smell.
A bid advantage of home delivery is a clean and dry dog. If you collect from a rescue centre you run the risk of a wet, shitty dog who hasn't travelled well in your car and has also been sick everywhere who is then even more disorientated with another move.

So that is reality but I realise for those anti on here it will not be as appealing as thrown in the back of a white van and dumped off at your door in the middle of the night.
Middle of the night BTW has nothing seedy about it. It is simply down to getting the dogs homed asap and the working around the hours and rest times etc for fitting in with the drivers.

I have no views if people should adopt from abroad or UK. Entirely up to them. If people don't approve of foreign rescues entirely their prerogative. However I am commenting to put reality.
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Wow, that's super quick, compared to my own personal experience of driving in Europe with dogs.

Do you have any information about their toilet breaks? How many/often, how many were in the van to take them out?

Lots of people brought dogs into the UK via quarantine back in the day, the dogs I knew all lived long and happy lives. MM will recall some of the places, they were like palaces and the dogs were treated like royalty.

Lots of litters were also born and raised in quarantine.
 
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DabDab said:
Langford wanting to test does not mean that loads of UK pet dogs are being taken abroad and allowed to run around with any and all Street dogs in the area.

I should think that they don't know how many pet dogs are taken abroad, and they almost certainly have no knowledge of the management of each dog while abroad. Standard practice for risk assessment when you can't estimate the occurrence value with much accuracy is to assume high and mitigate as far as reasonably practicable. Screening tests for any dog that has been abroad seems reasonably practicable to me.
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agreed they have no knowledge of management abroad and perfectly reasonable to test. No problem with that. Not sure why it hasn't been done up until now. They may well find some positives. It would be very interesting to know the result of such testing.

Not sure some of the holiday makers and people taking their pooches abroad will be too happy to get a £200 bill on return for testing and then the question as to what happens to the positive ones.
 
paddy555 said:
agreed they have no knowledge of management abroad and perfectly reasonable to test. No problem with that. Not sure why it hasn't been done up until now. They may well find some positives. It would be very interesting to know the result of such testing.

Not sure some of the holiday makers and people taking their pooches abroad will be too happy to get a £200 bill on return for testing and then the question as to what happens to the positive ones.
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I thought we’d already explained that in all things practices/risk assessments change when more information becomes available 🤷‍♀️
 
CorvusCorax said:
Wow, that's super quick, compared to my own personal experience of driving in Europe with dogs.

Do you have any information about their toilet breaks? How many/often, how many were in the van to take them out?

Lots of people brought dogs into the UK via quarantine back in the day, the dogs I knew all lived long and happy lives. MM will recall some of the places, they were like palaces and the dogs were treated like royalty.
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the time schedule was leave R at around 7pm, Tues. Arrived at Calais around midnight Wed. We watched them stop the vans (obviously for fuel etc) but I cannot tell you around staff breaks, toilet breaks etc. Slept overnight at Calais and around 8am Thurs everyone was up and waiting for border control who arrived around lunchtime, went onto the ferry, and then waited in Dover for DEFRa for apha checks. That was around an hour, very efficient as ours were the first dogs coming in on the new BC APHA regs.
Left Dover around 4pm. and off to London/Essex areas. Then they had to rest for the night and Fri was down to us and others.

I can't tell you about toilet breaks for the dogs. 20 per vehicle. Only that each time the cameras went round the dogs (we saw them all not just our own) we were able to see both the dogs, their water, food and the state of their beds. We saw them several times during the days and they were always clean. They could of course have been living in a shit heap the rest of the time but that wasn't reflected in the condition and dryness of their coats (and mine are long double coated ones and they were immaculate)

I know some people were happy with quarantine, I wouldn't have been happy with my dog in kennels for 6m away from home and my friend's didn't do well mentally. No problems with the actual kennel accommodation.
 
rara007 said:
The worst I had was presented in a crate as they couldn’t get a lead on it- they’d had it in their house 8 months. It behaved like a wild fox immediately bolting to dark spaces, but was in worse condition than most foxes. It had a terrible untreated tumour that had eaten most of its hard pallet away but of course no one had been able to assess it until we knocked it out like a zoo animal. It was skin, bones and soiled mats.
Saw 2x American bully’s, a doodle and a Rommie on Saturday. Only the Rommie tried to bite me without warning.
The history of the people running some of the rescues can often be quite revealing with a quick Google.
Of course there are good ones, running to high standards. And there are several terrible uk rescues and ‘not for profit’ organisations. And even worse ‘breeders’.
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I agree there are good and bad in all rescues both here and overseas and breeders and in fact far too many dogs being bred full stop.

Your story in your first para will be the one that is endlessly quoted about these impossible Rommie dogs and people will, on the back of it, regard all of them as being total nightmares, impossible to handle, attack the vet etc etc etc. They will be dining out on this for a long time to come.

I thought I would totally waste my time by writing my story. Dog taken to the vet 2 weeks after he arrived for health check and also blood test etc for erch, leish and all the rest of it.

Dog sat in the consulting room and waited calmly, taken next door for the blood test. Didn't return when the door was opened, found him lying on the floor playing with the vet nurses. Got him back in the consulting room, dog laid down flat out, vet consulted computer to work out which tests etc which took her a while. it was time to leave, dog laid on floor asleep couldn't be bothered to move, vet gave dog a poke and he climbed to his feet and walked calmly out. Vet didnt do the exact test I wanted so went back the next week for another blood test. Different vet, lifted dog onto table, vet stroked dog and gave him a treat, dog licked vet in thanks, I stroked his head, needle in and out and lifted him down again.
That was our first 2 extremely boring visits to the vet. The 2nd vet, a partner,, did comment how well he had behaved. Dog in UK 3 weeks at that time. Sorry they were not as exciting as people would hope.
 
I've been really, really unwell so I dont know if its just me, but is this not utterly ridiculous? Some of these dogs have huge issues which are hidden. Many of these dogs are utterly miserable here. Some of these dogs bring in diseases. Many of this dogs come from very dodgy "rescues". There is nothing currently stopping anyone getting one, so crack on. But why anyone would expect other people to be happy about it is beyond me, never mind actively encourage others to do the same. My mind is absolutely boggled and I'm going for a lay down.
 
For clarity, my beef with the van thing is less about the logistics and ethics of the transport itself. That is absolutely an issue, but one that has been covered better here by others already. My comment in its unabridged form was more about the utter batshittery of the actual process - see dog online, have heartstrings tugged, have dog delivered. And then a load of handwaving over the consequences, no matter how severe, because love will conquer all.

Sorry to keep banging on about the same example but it's a good 'un as it was so much in the public eye - I have not forgotten that image of Sophie's face as she was handed over off that van.
 
paddy555 said:
the time schedule was leave R at around 7pm, Tues. Arrived at Calais around midnight Wed. We watched them stop the vans (obviously for fuel etc) but I cannot tell you around staff breaks, toilet breaks etc. Slept overnight at Calais and around 8am Thurs everyone was up and waiting for border control who arrived around lunchtime, went onto the ferry, and then waited in Dover for DEFRa for apha checks. That was around an hour, very efficient as ours were the first dogs coming in on the new BC APHA regs.
Left Dover around 4pm. and off to London/Essex areas. Then they had to rest for the night and Fri was down to us and others.

I can't tell you about toilet breaks for the dogs. 20 per vehicle. Only that each time the cameras went round the dogs (we saw them all not just our own) we were able to see both the dogs, their water, food and the state of their beds. We saw them several times during the days and they were always clean. They could of course have been living in a shit heap the rest of the time but that wasn't reflected in the condition and dryness of their coats (and mine are long double coated ones and they were immaculate)

I know some people were happy with quarantine, I wouldn't have been happy with my dog in kennels for 6m away from home and my friend's didn't do well mentally. No problems with the actual kennel accommodation.
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So did they turn the cameras off for toilet breaks? Or was it phone camera footage? Could you tell how long the stretches of driving were?

Be some job taking 20 dogs, some skittish, for an on-leash toilet break/leg stretch in a strange environment. I know when I travelled with three it was at least 30 minutes, ten per dog, all well used to it. Not including my own toilet trip!
 
paddy555 said:
I agree there are good and bad in all rescues both here and overseas and breeders and in fact far too many dogs being bred full stop.

Your story in your first para will be the one that is endlessly quoted about these impossible Rommie dogs and people will, on the back of it, regard all of them as being total nightmares, impossible to handle, attack the vet etc etc etc. They will be dining out on this for a long time to come.

I thought I would totally waste my time by writing my story. Dog taken to the vet 2 weeks after he arrived for health check and also blood test etc for erch, leish and all the rest of it.

Dog sat in the consulting room and waited calmly, taken next door for the blood test. Didn't return when the door was opened, found him lying on the floor playing with the vet nurses. Got him back in the consulting room, dog laid down flat out, vet consulted computer to work out which tests etc which took her a while. it was time to leave, dog laid on floor asleep couldn't be bothered to move, vet gave dog a poke and he climbed to his feet and walked calmly out. Vet didnt do the exact test I wanted so went back the next week for another blood test. Different vet, lifted dog onto table, vet stroked dog and gave him a treat, dog licked vet in thanks, I stroked his head, needle in and out and lifted him down again.
That was our first 2 extremely boring visits to the vet. The 2nd vet, a partner,, did comment how well he had behaved. Dog in UK 3 weeks at that time. Sorry they were not as exciting as people would hope.
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What about the nervier one?
 
paddy555 said:
I agree there are good and bad in all rescues both here and overseas and breeders and in fact far too many dogs being bred full stop.

Your story in your first para will be the one that is endlessly quoted about these impossible Rommie dogs and people will, on the back of it, regard all of them as being total nightmares, impossible to handle, attack the vet etc etc etc. They will be dining out on this for a long time to come.

I thought I would totally waste my time by writing my story. Dog taken to the vet 2 weeks after he arrived for health check and also blood test etc for erch, leish and all the rest of it.

Dog sat in the consulting room and waited calmly, taken next door for the blood test. Didn't return when the door was opened, found him lying on the floor playing with the vet nurses. Got him back in the consulting room, dog laid down flat out, vet consulted computer to work out which tests etc which took her a while. it was time to leave, dog laid on floor asleep couldn't be bothered to move, vet gave dog a poke and he climbed to his feet and walked calmly out. Vet didnt do the exact test I wanted so went back the next week for another blood test. Different vet, lifted dog onto table, vet stroked dog and gave him a treat, dog licked vet in thanks, I stroked his head, needle in and out and lifted him down again.
That was our first 2 extremely boring visits to the vet. The 2nd vet, a partner,, did comment how well he had behaved. Dog in UK 3 weeks at that time. Sorry they were not as exciting as people would hope.
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Well that is quite unusual behaviour in the vets for most dogs. Mine are happy at the vets but they want to interact with everybody, they certainly don’t lie down and go to sleep .
 
Just got back from my vets(Langford) with my Romanian rescue Zara who was actually feral when she first arrived in 2018. It was her first visit on her own without Pip who always went with her for moral support but sadly we lost her a few short weeks ago. Zara was an absolute star , she had gone in for a teeth exam and was handled first by the last year students and then by the vet who was the very first vet to see her back in 2018.

Langford are asking for dogs who go abroad for holidays etc to be tested only from those suspect countries with CB, if you went to France, Germany etc thats is fine. Tbh I dont blame them considering they had 2 cases in October and for the testing its now £90, it was £80 when Zara was first tested so I dont think they are over charging. Incidentally the consult fee today was £60 but being an OAP I get a discount so only paid £51.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Well that is quite unusual behaviour in the vets for most dogs. Mine are happy at the vets but they want to interact with everybody, they certainly don’t lie down and go to sleep .
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I don't think I can really win commenting on what has happened with my dogs. If I posted my dog caused chaos it would be I told you so, if I post he was quiet and well behaved his behaviour is considered unusual.
Our time with the vet (in the consulting room not the waiting room) was well over an hour, possibly 1.25 hours. He was bored, laid down and went to sleep. That is in fact his default setting in life. That was far better than running amok or panicking IMO.

It took that long as the vet was newly qualified and had to go away and ask for just about everything. Then all the tests etc had to be looked up in the labs (external lab) book detailing their services. ie did I want this test, or this test with this added etc etc etc. This went on a long while. We had a lot of discussion as I asked their advice on what to do and they went to consult with another vet each time. I knew exactly what I wanted when I went in but it took a very long time to actually get there. I am not criticising the vet, everyone has to learn and I was only charged a normal consult fee so it wasn't a problem in fact it was a good learning experience for the dog but it did take a long time. He is a sensible dog, would you would really expect him to stand around waiting for that length of time?
 
CorvusCorax said:
Well, that's pretty bananas behaviour that I've never heard of before.
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None of the dog owners I know let their dogs roam loose outside their own properties and I cannot understand any dog owner who would go to the trouble of taking their dog abroad and letting them roam loose, apart from the Brucellosis what about rabies, fights, getting covered etc….
Bananas doesn’t even cover it…
 
Lots of unusual behaviour, not just the dog! Did your other one fall asleep too? It does highlight how differently these ‘breeds’ are wired to our companion and working breeds most people are familiar with. You can see how that level of independence and disinterest in people make the ones that have boiled over into anxiety difficult to rehab. Most dog training is based around dogs that have a natural inclination to want to bond to humans. And no that’s not a bad thing, but shows how the local obedience club isn’t likely to be the place to progress and why catching escapees is tricky.
 
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