Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad

rara007 said:
Lots of unusual behaviour, not just the dog! Did your other one fall asleep too? It does highlight how differently these ‘breeds’ are wired to our companion and working breeds most people are familiar with. You can see how that level of independence and disinterest in people make the ones that have boiled over into anxiety difficult to rehab. Most dog training is based around dogs that have a natural inclination to want to bond to humans. And no that’s not a bad thing, but shows how the local obedience club isn’t likely to be the place to progress and why catching escapees is tricky.
Click to expand...
That’s a good point , lg breeds don’t really interact with people the same do they ?
 
rara007 said:
Lots of unusual behaviour, not just the dog! Did your other one fall asleep too? It does highlight how differently these ‘breeds’ are wired to our companion and working breeds most people are familiar with. You can see how that level of independence and disinterest in people make the ones that have boiled over into anxiety difficult to rehab. Most dog training is based around dogs that have a natural inclination to want to bond to humans. And no that’s not a bad thing, but shows how the local obedience club isn’t likely to be the place to progress and why catching escapees is tricky.
Click to expand...
if you are just out of vet school then you may not know I guess. I knew because I had spent hours and hours whilst the dogs were in Romania researching all of these illnesses/tests etc. If I hadn't specifically asked for the tests I wanted and just said can you health check my dog and perhaps blood test it would have taken a lot less time but wouldn't have achieved what I wanted. I wanted specifically to be sure I could trust the negative Romanian tests. I could, the UK ones had the same results especially if I decided to insure him.

I didn't mind too much, it was a good training exercise for the dog. That was one reason I went. Showed me what he would do in that situation.

I did a lot of research with people who had taken this sort of Romanian about what to expect, how to deal with them etc etc. Many of their comments followed a pattern. The one that best described them and him is that "they don't want to play ball" spaniel chasing a ball they most definitely are not. That attitude suited me fine. He adores people but I'm not sure he has any special attachment to me, anyone will do which is not a bad thing.

He is very easy to train but not because he wants to bond or please me or get a treat. It appears to be that, to him, it is just the correct thing to do no messing around just get on with it. It is very easy to see how they would naturally just take responsibility.

all these traits are in the more nervous bitch and it is just going to take time but a fascinating journey.
 
CorvusCorax said:
It does sound like they travelled by DeLorean, although maybe there was no traffic :)
Click to expand...
love that remark. :D:DThey did indeed travel by DeLorean across Europe and then they got to Dover and English roads and then life moved onto s snail's pace. In fact a snail may have moved more quickly. Then they came to a halt in London as the next vehicle but one in front exploded into a fireball.
 
skinnydipper said:
Were these not done by the rescue prior to importation?
Click to expand...
I'm really sorry to disappoint you in your crusade against Rommies and rescues and I feel very bad but I am afraid that yes all these things were tested in Romania and I was sent the vet's invoices as evidence that they had been done. So sorry.
 
paddy555 said:
love that remark. :D:DThey did indeed travel by DeLorean across Europe and then they got to Dover and English roads and then life moved onto s snail's pace. In fact a snail may have moved more quickly. Then they came to a halt in London as the next vehicle but one in front exploded into a fireball.
Click to expand...

I mean, having first hand experience of driving in Europe, it does seem like they made amazing time. But I am sure you researched it.
 
paddy555 said:
I agree there are good and bad in all rescues both here and overseas and breeders and in fact far too many dogs being bred full stop.

Your story in your first para will be the one that is endlessly quoted about these impossible Rommie dogs and people will, on the back of it, regard all of them as being total nightmares, impossible to handle, attack the vet etc etc etc. They will be dining out on this for a long time to come.

I thought I would totally waste my time by writing my story. Dog taken to the vet 2 weeks after he arrived for health check and also blood test etc for erch, leish and all the rest of it.

Dog sat in the consulting room and waited calmly, taken next door for the blood test. Didn't return when the door was opened, found him lying on the floor playing with the vet nurses. Got him back in the consulting room, dog laid down flat out, vet consulted computer to work out which tests etc which took her a while. it was time to leave, dog laid on floor asleep couldn't be bothered to move, vet gave dog a poke and he climbed to his feet and walked calmly out. Vet didnt do the exact test I wanted so went back the next week for another blood test. Different vet, lifted dog onto table, vet stroked dog and gave him a treat, dog licked vet in thanks, I stroked his head, needle in and out and lifted him down again.
That was our first 2 extremely boring visits to the vet. The 2nd vet, a partner,, did comment how well he had behaved. Dog in UK 3 weeks at that time. Sorry they were not as exciting as people would hope.
Click to expand...

What a wonderfully supportive practice giving their new graduate vets 1h+ appointment slots! The industry standard is new grads being "allowed" 30mins vs the standard 15 or 20min slots given to their more experienced colleagues. Fantastic to hear of such sympathetic and nurturing mentorship with the current veterinary staffing crisis in the UK
 
druid said:
What a wonderfully supportive practice giving their new graduate vets 1h+ appointment slots! The industry standard is new grads being "allowed" 30mins vs the standard 15 or 20min slots given to their more experienced colleagues. Fantastic to hear of such sympathetic and nurturing mentorship with the current veterinary staffing crisis in the UK
Click to expand...
I am not sure if your post is meant to be sarcastic or serious so I will choose the former.

We were the last morning appt and I have no idea if they used their lunch break. Didn't really matter that was the time it took. We were not rushed in any way. It wouldn't have taken an experienced vet more than 15mins but they would have the experience to answer questions and give advice without having to look tests etc up and ask. . I think she was simply trying to do a good job ad we got there in the end. Didn't bother me and the dog couldn't care less.
 
Marshpiper said:
None of the dog owners I know let their dogs roam loose outside their own properties and I cannot understand any dog owner who would go to the trouble of taking their dog abroad and letting them roam loose, apart from the Brucellosis what about rabies, fights, getting covered etc….
Bananas doesn’t even cover it…
Click to expand...
I think it depends on the area you live in, I wouldn't even notice it here. I only notice if the dog is a prospective threat to the horse I am riding. We often have loose dogs wandering down our lane and you know that in a few minutes their riders will appear or sometimes strange dogs and you know the people from the various holiday lets will appear at some stage. . People run them loose all the time on the common and in the lanes. I had to give up taking my GSD out on my bike because of loose dogs that flew across in front of me and knocked me off my bike even though my dog was leaded and sitting by the side of the road at that stage. .

your bananas is my normality.
 
paddy555 said:
I am not sure if your post is meant to be sarcastic or serious so I will choose the former.

We were the last morning appt and I have no idea if they used their lunch break. Didn't really matter that was the time it took. We were not rushed in any way. It wouldn't have taken an experienced vet more than 15mins but they would have the experience to answer questions and give advice without having to look tests etc up and ask. . I think she was simply trying to do a good job ad we got there in the end. Didn't bother me and the dog couldn't care less.
Click to expand...

Longer appointments for new grads have been shown to provide a better standard of medicine, as has good mentorship by colleagues.
 
paddy555 said:
if you are just out of vet school then you may not know I guess. I knew because I had spent hours and hours whilst the dogs were in Romania researching all of these illnesses/tests etc.
Click to expand...

That is very rude and also not true. But hey, glad your "hours of research" replaces Raras/other vets who have posted whose user names I forget, vet degree and years in practice.
 
paddy555 said:
I'm really sorry to disappoint you in your crusade against Rommies and rescues
Click to expand...

I have no problem with rescues. Out of 11 dogs 8 of mine have been from rescue organisations, 2 rehomes.

What I do have a problem with is an infectious bacterial disease that can cause illness and death in dogs, for which there is no cure, and can be transmitted to humans, being brought into this country.
 
I'm Dun said:
That is very rude and also not true. But hey, glad your "hours of research" replaces Raras/other vets who have posted whose user names I forget, vet degree and years in practice.
Click to expand...
I am sorry to disappoint you, and I do feel your comment is slightly rude but, hey, also amusing. Also great that you can comment on the proficiency of this vet from such a distance and not even having been there.

It is absolutely not my fault if a vet does not have sufficient knowledge of areas such as erlichia, leish, and many others or of the tests available to check for these and have to continually go away and ask another vet what they should be suggesting and advising I do. It is also most definitely not my fault if they waste 15 minutes of the appointment taking blood from a very quiet calm dog. I have no idea why they took it from under the neck, the 2nd vet took it in a matter of minutes from the leg. Perhaps if they don't know and cannot answer my questions then they are incapable of practising and should never have qualified in the first place, perhaps they were insufficiently trained. Who knows.

You commented earlier on what you see as the many failures of Rommie rescues. Shame you choose to ignore the successes but then I once read that a closed mind is a terrible waste of space. Always liked that phrase. :D:D

Anyway back to the story in my own case I did my research to make sure I understood exactly what I was going to do getting these dogs and one of those areas was to make sure I totally understand which diseases it was possible for a Rommie dog to be associated with, to understand how they got infected and to make sure they were adequately tested. . To most that would have been a sensible thing for a prospective owner to do but obviously not to you. I mean I don't really have the ability to understand anything do I. Heaven help us that ordinary members of the public should do.

Perhaps in the current discussions of BC it would have helped if prospective owners had done a little research as I did and it had occurred to them in the past the question of BC and making sure their dogs were suitably APHA tested to UK standards.

Anyway back to your post again. Now I could have complained to the practice owners how totally and utterly useless this vet had been, how much time the appointment had taken, how slow in getting a blood sample etc. Not much useful advice etc etc. However I took the view that they were very very newly qualified, may well not have come across these prospective diseases very much, were not aware of the various tests their lab providers offered as I may have been the first client requesting them in the very few weeks they had been working as a qualified vet.
The time didn't bother me, the dog was perfectly happy and it was a good training exercise for him so I took that view. I ended up getting the tests that I wanted.

I am sure that Rara and many of the other vets with years of experience would have dealt with my appointment very differently however this person didn't have such experience, they tried to do their best, were very helpful and pleasant and I hope learnt along the way.

I do look forward to what will be your helpful reply. Please don't hesitate on the rudeness aspect. Any amusement will be welcome to brighten up my boring day. :)
 
Unfortunately we are having this conversation because of the failure of a significant number of rescues who are reckless and in it purely for the money. They cut corners which is detriment to the dogs, their failure to get these dogs tested and properly assessing owners is the reason we now have this problem. Unfortunately the lack of staff at ports and sites of imports have just compounded the problem, these rescues know the chance of being stopped and checked is slim to none.

The number of dogs that go missing in their new homes is truly worrying but the rescues response is to wash their hands of that dog and leave it to local rescues to pick up the pieces.

I think if you want instances of this you need to go to https://www.facebook.com/barnabyslaw and read what is the true picture.
 
Has anyone researched the likely journey time, how 20 dogs would be let out to toilet and stretch their legs, if at all, or how 20 street dogs would be managed when checking in to a port?

Are the transporters making available CCTV/internal camera/time and date stamped footage or mobile phone footage, which is entirely at the discretion of the person filming?

If people are happy with the information supplied to them, that's their choice/then they're happy. Others might want to ask some supplementary questions.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Has anyone researched the likely journey time, how 20 dogs would be let out to toilet and stretch their legs, if at all, or how 20 street dogs would be managed when checking in to a port?

Are the transporters making available CCTV/internal camera/time and date stamped footage or mobile phone footage, which is entirely at the discretion of the person filming?

If people are happy with the information supplied to them, that's their choice/then they're happy. Others might want to ask some supplementary questions.
Click to expand...
I am struggling how a transit type van could be safely fitted out with enough crating for 20 dogs, unless they were all toy breeds, and we know in this particular case at least 2 were Carpathian types. That's before you get to the exercise/toileting and microchip checks at the port.
 
paddy555 said:
Perhaps in the current discussions of BC it would have helped if prospective owners had done a little research as I did and it had occurred to them in the past the question of BC and making sure their dogs were suitably APHA tested to UK standards.

see previously:
I don't think that those who adopt them care any less about vaccinations or disease than the average UK owner. It is a bit insulting really to suggest that they would do.
Click to expand...


So again they care lots but haven’t done/not enough to do a little research like you did 🤷‍♀️. To me to not research is not to care.

Earlier paddy said they were on a bus
 
ester said:
So again they care lots but haven’t done/not enough to do a little research like you did 🤷‍♀️. To me to not research is not to care.

Earlier paddy said they were on a bus
Click to expand...
Paddy said this in post 339
"Deliver to their door per the quote. Yes the dogs come in a transit type van kitted out for dog transport. So it is a van. "
 
paddy555 said:
everyone does like to put a bias on foreign imports and that is fine if people don't think dogs should be imported, some are happy they are and others don't agree as with many things in life.

If Ouch's dog was in a foster home then it would have had the advantages that she could visit and meet the dog and see if they got on. I'm not sure why you would think it could have ended up in any number of unsuitable homes, I would have thought that a fostered foreign rescue would be more likely to be successful. That is really no different from a normal UK rescue. There would have been a lot of info available from the foster parent and the dog would have been living in a home not shelter kennels.
Many dogs are returned to dog rescues/shelters ie UK dogs as the placement doesn't work out.

my dog (we started off with one) wasn't imported for me as such. He was simply a dog, a street dog, advertised on a rescue site that I fell for, passed the home check and was therefore able to adopt him. My second dog started off as I volunteered to foster her to help the rescue and decided to keep her as well when she arrived. She was also a street dog. So I suppose they had more potential to go wrong arriving unseen than a UK fostered one but they were fine.

You would be surprised how soon many street dogs adapt both from my own experience and that of others I know. Many people repeat that street dogs cannot become pets but that is usually based on what they have read or biased TV documentaries rather than what they have done themselves. It is no different taking a foreign dog or a UK rescue dog. Rescue dogs come with potential problems, in the UK most wouldn't be in rescues if they were perfect. Some people adopt from rescues, possibly lie to get accepted for a dog anyway, and then make endless mistakes in trying to settle the dog in or don't give them sufficient time to adapt.

when the dogs arrived in the UK we were linked to the bus cameras and could watch as everyone's dogs were unloaded, usually handed to the new owner outside (they were that tame and it was safe to do so with a slip lead) and then they posted pics/videos as they took their dogs into their house. Several of those dogs had moved onto the sofa very quickly. There were many that you could see from the owners and dogs that it was going to work out well.

I am not sure what your ETA care about vaccinations or disease means? the dogs arrive with a passport full of vaccinations and lots of disease checks and other treatments having been done. They also arrive since 7/10 BC tested from Romania. I don't think that those who adopt them care any less about vaccinations or disease than the average UK owner. It is a bit insulting really to suggest that they would do.
Click to expand...
‘Bus cameras’
 
ester said:
And in a different post she said bus ;)
Click to expand...
The one that arrived in my village with a bunch of other very distressed sounding dogs was on board the happy bus or some such thing, it wasn't literally a bus, more a windowless van. I'm not a dog lover so maybe the dreadful noise was the dogs expressing their gratitude at being able to leave their sorry lives in Romania to live under a sofa in the UK.
 
Last edited:
MurphysMinder said:
I am struggling how a transit type van could be safely fitted out with enough crating for 20 dogs, unless they were all toy breeds, and we know in this particular case at least 2 were Carpathian types. That's before you get to the exercise/toileting and microchip checks at the port.
Click to expand...
on the toileting POV then they would have stayed in their cages. They did have pads in the cages of course which were changed regularly.
if you find that aspect unsatisfactory then presumably you also find this unacceptable

the airline crate had loads of shredded newspaper in it as she couldn’t be let out to go.

or do you just want to have a swipe at Europe rescues. Anyway they were not just slung into the back of a van as someone suggested on an earlier thread I read on here. Cannot remember who it was.:)

the vans were very large so it is easy to see there would have been sufficient crating and there were many small dogs as well. The van worried us when we saw them on camera as our roads are normally van size (very narrow) and our yard entrance is also only van size, these looked huge and we hoped it was going to fit. Offloading anywhere but home didn't fill me with joy.
The vehicle fitted into the yard but not much room to spare. Having seen the earlier comments then I would refer to it as a very large van, I think others call it a bus. I'm sure I have probably called it either. It didn't have windows. I am really not sure of the importance of what one should call it.

I cannot comment how BControl and Defra deal with chips, checks etc. They could certainly have walked down the aisle opened cage doors with a scanner checking the chips if they chose to. Documents were handed to us eg passport, export certs etc and these would have been ready for BC etc.
CorvusCorax said:
If people are happy with the information supplied to them, that's their choice/then they're happy. Others might want to ask some supplementary questions.
Click to expand...


irrelevant if you are happy, if I am happy or anyone else really. The dogs were fine. There was no whining or barking coming from the van, easy to hear when the door was opened, the dogs were clean and dry and settled. The journey had no long term impact on them. Certainly has not put the dog off travelling, he is happy in his car cage especially if it includes a lunch break and food.

all the dogs we saw unloaded were calm and quiet as were mine. I cannot think of any supplementary questions I would ask. Overall is it reasonable for a dog to travel for 2 or 3 days in this way in order to have the chance of a life with a family, a warm bed, food, vet care and everything else UK dogs have. IMHO it is absolutely no contest.





as for the comments that get endlessly repeated about street dogs not being able to adapt,, being cruel etc etc then the reality for mine, both the forward and scared one is that the kitchen carpet in front of the rayburn plus 2 nice meals a day is not quite as bad a people are keen to make out. In fact I almost get the impression, as they are both stretched flat out asleep, that they may even quite like it. They do seem to like to spend their time stretched out sleeping on the kitchen floor but I am sure that I am totally misreading them. What I am seeing as calm, contented and relaxed dogs is really 2 totally terrified dogs who are barely able to conceal their terror and their only way is to go to sleep in front of the stove dreaming of their former life and praying one day I will return them, hopefully not on the van/bus. .
 
I don't know that all the hyperbole is helpful, but as I said, if you're happy, you're happy. It's not something I'd be prepared to do and it does not tally with my experience of driving dogs through Europe. The staff don't come onto vehicles in the way you described IME (and you'd have seen it on camera surely) my dogs have had to be taken out individually and checked, but I'm sure it differs at different ports.

I'm glad everything has gone so seamlessly, but because your experience has gone off without without any hitch whatsoever, does not mean that there aren't issues elsewhere.

The whole love/family home/warm bed thing is a human construct. Lots of street dogs have survived for generations without any of these things and some of the dogs removed from that environment do not enjoy it. If we accept that some dogs obviously do adapt well (and are probably those which didn't find street life that stressful, either) we must accept that others don't. The thread title is 'rescue roulette'... it's a gamble and you have placed your bet well. Others don't.
 
MurphysMinder said:
I am struggling how a transit type van could be safely fitted out with enough crating for 20 dogs, unless they were all toy breeds, and we know in this particular case at least 2 were Carpathian types. That's before you get to the exercise/toileting and microchip checks at the port.
Click to expand...

My huge XL wheel base van is only 4.25m x 2m inside and its a box van so much bigger than tranist type vans. I still wouldnt get 20 crates in it, esp not if 2 contained huge dogs. And its relatively new and very lightweight. It would still not in this lifetime be able to complete that journey in the time its claimed it was taken.

The reason dogs are crated on planes is for their own safety and because you cant take a dog out to the toilet in mid air. There is no excuse for not taking dogs out regularly when travelling by road. None.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top