Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad

My huge XL wheel base van is only 4.25m x 2m inside and its a box van so much bigger than tranist type vans. I still wouldnt get 20 crates in it, esp not if 2 contained huge dogs. And its relatively new and very lightweight. It would still not in this lifetime be able to complete that journey in the time its claimed it was taken.

The reason dogs are crated on planes is for their own safety and because you cant take a dog out to the toilet in mid air. There is no excuse for not taking dogs out regularly when travelling by road. None.
If you read some of the posts on this thread you will see mention of escaped Rommie rescue dogs and that they are not easy to catch. For dogs at that moment of their travels that is very very true. So you are proposing to take such dogs out of their cages and out of the vehicle to toilet probably on the basis that some, all or many have not been trained to get out of the family car on a lead and to have a pee then I think you have a beyond total misunderstanding of these rescue dogs.

Looking at my own 2 dogs the male very very friendly would have loved the break, would have spent his time playing with the handler but he most certainly would not have had a pee or anything else. My little bitch would have been horrified at the idea and having a pee would have been the last thing on her mind.
To take dogs out of the transport would have involved every single dog have both a slip lead and harness put on and being double leaded for safety. The time that would have taken for a very unsuccessful attempt at toileting may well have taken up to 2 hours. Multiply that by several stops and the adverse effect for the dogs would have been many more hours sitting on the transport and for what purpose? The dogs would have had to be taken out one by one. You couldn't take 2 street dogs out and expect them to think about toileting. Their minds would be on other things.

We are not looking for excuses. The reason for not taking them out is exactly the same as on the plane. It is for their own safety. I appreciate that you may not have experience in this area so I do understand your concerns however suggesting excuses are being made when you lack experience and seem to have no regard for safety is not really on.

Turning now to your first para. Are you insinuating that I am lying about the journey time? please say if that is what you think. I always appreciate accuracy in comments.

I am not claiming anything about journey time I am simply stating the facts as they happened. I was told the journey would start at around 7pm and to tune in shortly after. (FB group set up for it for the rescues and owners) We were each sent a pic by the rescue of our own dog in it's cage. The drive was underway by then. After about an hour they got footage for us showing all the dogs and the GPS set up. We also had a commentary from one of the staff telling us what was happening, discussing individual dogs if we raised questions and giving timing details. So I have no doubt we were looking at 7pm start time. So that was the beginning.
The first dogs were delivered in the London area around 6pm or so on the Thurs. eve, We were each given ETA times. I watched the dogs being delivered as that was interesting to see how each reacted and get an insight into rommie dogs. There are a lot of comments on here about these dogs but I wonder how many are actually based on watching the new dogs interact with their owners and watching them in their new homes.. There were lots of pics etc as people showed off their new dog in the house, usually involving the settee. Strange the liking of these street dogs for such a level of comfort as the cosy settee. My own dogs arrived on Fri evening at about 6pm
Those were the timings, that is what happened. I have no idea what the timings were, should have been or could have been in your opinion. That is what happened in reality. If you disagree with that then please come on the forum and openly call me a liar and prove that I am wrong.

The vans/buses were owned by one of the rescues. There were many rescues involved in this particular journey. They were kitted out for the dogs. They were not a commercial transport company. They were pretty high and I think from memory had 2 rows of cages above each other. (that is from memory)
 
When my rescue came over in 2017 on Traces she and the others on the transport stayed in kennels for 48hours before she was delivered to me. I also had a visit from DEFRA a few days later checking her paper work which was fine, I had been prewarned I might get a visit from them. I dont know whether they still do this.

Her transport from Romania was a proper registered courier service who delivered her to the kennels, I dont know who was having the other dogs but Zara was funded by the Lancashire Heeler Welfare fund and she has back up for life.
 
No idea if this is the transport that brought Paddy’s dogs over, but here’s a link to a self titled Romanian Rescue Bus service which operates two modified LWB vans regularly transporting dogs (and apparently cats) from Romania to England.

Triple decker built in travel cages.


“We make regular pit stops to check on the fur babies and we are in regular contact with rescues and adopters.

We cross Europe via Hungary, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France and then we board the ferry from Calais to Dover.

The comfort of your fur babies is our priority 🤮🤮


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This supports the industry which imports these foreign dogs while UK dogs in need (and there are sadly plenty of those) are overlooked.
 
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If a dog is so terrified it cant be taken out to go to the toilet by a professional then what the hell are they doing moving it to another country?

And no I dont believe you about the journey times, unless they have travelled non stop, driving 24 hours a day with no breaks. which is a massive welfare issue. It would also be illegal as these vans should be fitted with tachos which wouldnt allow that level of driving even with 2 people taking turns. Surely this reputable rescue wouldn't dream of doing that?
 
No idea if this is the transport that brought Paddy’s dogs over, but here’s a link to a self titled Romanian Rescue Bus service which operates two modified LWB vans regularly transporting dogs (and apparently cats) from Romania to England.

Triple decker built in travel cages.


“We make regular pit stops to check on the fur babies and we are in regular contact with rescues and adopters.

We cross Europe via Hungary, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France and then we board the ferry from Calais to Dover.

The comfort of your fur babies is our priority” 🤮🤮


View attachment 169838

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View attachment 169841

This supports the industry which imports these foreign dogs while UK dogs in need (and there are sadly plenty of those) are overlooked.

So they dont stop for them to go to the toilet? Sounds like the "babies" welfare isnt considered at all :(
 
Actually I think they are better off not being let out to toilet. They aren’t lead trained, it would be a health and safety risk all round and it would be easier and safer to just change the beds. I’m not even sure how you would manage that with the more nervous ones but I guess the handlers are used to it.
The vet bed in the photos wouldn’t be that absorbent though. I’d have thought straw/ shavings or tea bag easier and better.
 
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irrelevant if you are happy, if I am happy or anyone else really. The dogs were fine. There was no whining or barking coming from the van, easy to hear when the door was opened, the dogs were clean and dry and settled.

I find this a bizarre method for determining if a dog is 'fine'

The Romanian import I worked with, made absolutely no noise. He made himself as small as possible and did not make a noise for many weeks.

There is no way he would be barking or whining while in transit. He was terrified.

The absence of noise, does not mean the absence of terror.
 
Actually I think they are better off not being let out to toilet. They aren’t lead trained, it would be a health and safety risk all round and it would be easier and safer to just change the beds. I’m not even sure how you would manage that with the more nervous ones but I guess the handlers are used to it.
The vet bed in the photos wouldn’t be that absorbent though. I’d have thought straw/ shavings or tea bag easier and better.
I agree re not taking them out but for me that feeds into the should people really be doing it then as that long in a small crate travelling isn’t great welfare wise.
 
When my rescue came over in 2017 on Traces she and the others on the transport stayed in kennels for 48hours before she was delivered to me. I also had a visit from DEFRA a few days later checking her paper work which was fine, I had been prewarned I might get a visit from them. I dont know whether they still do this.

Her transport from Romania was a proper registered courier service who delivered her to the kennels, I dont know who was having the other dogs but Zara was funded by the Lancashire Heeler Welfare fund and she has back up for life.
yes they do, I was told they couldn't move for 48 hours and there is a warning on one site that if you do defy them on this you can put the rest of the shipment in danger and risk losing your dog. I wasn't checked but was prepared to be.
 
No idea if this is the transport that brought Paddy’s dogs over, but here’s a link to a self titled Romanian Rescue Bus service which operates two modified LWB vans regularly transporting dogs (and apparently cats) from Romania to England.

Triple decker built in travel cages.


“We make regular pit stops to check on the fur babies and we are in regular contact with rescues and adopters.

We cross Europe via Hungary, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France and then we board the ferry from Calais to Dover.

The comfort of your fur babies is our priority 🤮🤮


View attachment 169838

View attachment 169840


View attachment 169841

This supports the industry which imports these foreign dogs while UK dogs in need (and there are sadly plenty of those) are overlooked.
similar but it was higher. Definitely not that particular one. Different sign writing on the side but it was dark and I didn't get chance to see it in detail.
 
If a dog is so terrified it cant be taken out to go to the toilet by a professional then what the hell are they doing moving it to another country?

And no I dont believe you about the journey times, unless they have travelled non stop, driving 24 hours a day with no breaks. which is a massive welfare issue. It would also be illegal as these vans should be fitted with tachos which wouldnt allow that level of driving even with 2 people taking turns. Surely this reputable rescue wouldn't dream of doing that?
I am sorry you think I am lying about the journey time. Yes they travel non stop 24 hours or at least for the first part. . That is that they left Romania at 7pm and arrived at Calais at midnight the foll. day. There was then a sleep over until 8am the foll. day and the vehicles remained stationary until around midday when Border agency arrived. So basically there was a non moving "rest" period from midnight till mid day ie 12 hours. When they arrived at Dover there was another non travelling period waiting for Defra. After the first English deliveries which was that evening they then stop and sleep for the night and start travelling again in the morning.

I think I have clearly explained that they didn't stop to go to the toilet.

what really does surprise me is your total lack of knowledge. Have you any experience of Romanian dogs whatsoever ie actually dealt with one or even met one? Mine is limited but at least I have some idea.

Do you not realise that if you took a street dog out of a vehicle for a pee it is a street dog, it has survived being a street dog by being on very high alert to everything around it. You pull into a picnic area, take it out and it is a street dog on a different street. It's first thought is survival not that I'm Dun thinks it should get out and go to the toilet.
There are a range of dogs, quite a few small cuddly dogs one could pick up and may well be little different from UK rescues, there are some more like mine towards the shepherd sort. There are large dogs that are very tame. The transporters won't know each dog so will have to work on the basis that every one is wild and is totally committed to escaping. That way everyone is safe. It was clear from watching them go round the dogs feeding and the like that many were very tame. Several medium sized dogs just wanted to play with the transporters. One of mine would have been the same. I would not in anyway have wanted my dogs let out to toilet. Safety is paramount.
Actually I think they are better off not being let out to toilet. They aren’t lead trained, it would be a health and safety risk all round and it would be easier and safer to just change the beds. I’m not even sure how you would manage that with the more nervous ones but I guess the handlers are used to it.
The vet bed in the photos wouldn’t be that absorbent though. I’d have thought straw/ shavings or tea bag easier and better.
I cannot comment on the bed in the photos. I agree it looks like vet bed so I have no idea how that firm dealt with it.

Ours were absorbent ie gets wet, put dry new bedding in.That is why they were clean and dry. They were white so we knew they were clean. Straw isn't absorbent and I think shavings would be difficult to clean out thoroughly easily based on my horses. Tea bag baffles me. No idea what they are beyond the obvious.

So they dont stop for them to go to the toilet? Sounds like the "babies" welfare isnt considered at all :(


Is it ethical not to let dogs out to toilet then that is a different question as is transporting animals in general. It is no different than a dog in an airline crate from the other end of the world. Fact is it happens and if you want to campaign against one you have to campaign against another. You could start a thread on is it fair to transport animals. For example is it fair to put a horse who needs all the natural lifestyle stuff and it live on a track constantly roaming with it's mates on a plane from say Aus shut it in a very small compartment for many hours. Aren't there enough horses in the UK, plenty in UK why on earth bring in more. Same with any animal.

It is a vast subject but on this particular point what I have described is fact as it happened.If someone objects to foreign rescues they will object as a matter of course and it will be fuel their to fire. There have been many comments about the transport on earlier threads. Thrown into the back of a van etc from an experienced dog person is an example not based on fact.
What I have described is how Romanian dogs are transported to the UK. Some will find that acceptable some won't but then again they won't find confining a dog to a crate from the other side of the world acceptable either.

Actually I think they are better off not being let out to toilet. They aren’t lead trained, it would be a health and safety risk all round and it would be easier and safer to just change the beds. I’m not even sure how you would manage that with the more nervous ones but I guess the handlers are used to it.

to change the bed I would expect one person would lift the dog out and hold it and another clean and replace the bed. In our transport that would have been pretty quick and easy to do. For larger dogs then just open the cage, remove dog and replace bed. The dogs were totally enclosed on the vehicle. They couldn't run off it would have been very safe and easy to do.


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View attachment 169841

This supports the industry which imports these foreign dogs while UK dogs in need (and there are sadly plenty of those) are overlooked.
didn't see you last line. The answer is surely personal choice for that person. Some people agree with it, some don't and as with everything they are free to have their views and make their choices. No more, no less.
 
What I have described is how Romanian dogs are transported to the UK.

Surely you mean how some Romanian dogs are transported?

I know you want to believe that every dog that has been transported here is living its best life and is so much happier than where they came from, been treated with the best possible care, couldn’t possibly have any diseases or end up in a shelter here but you can only speak for your experience and your dogs which seems to have gone well so far. Other people have had different experiences and it’s not all sunshine and roses.

I just don’t see the harm in people having concerns not only for these dogs but also the risk to their own pets.
 
No idea if this is the transport that brought Paddy’s dogs over, but here’s a link to a self titled Romanian Rescue Bus service which operates two modified LWB vans regularly transporting dogs (and apparently cats) from Romania to England.

Triple decker built in travel cages.


“We make regular pit stops to check on the fur babies and we are in regular contact with rescues and adopters.

We cross Europe via Hungary, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France and then we board the ferry from Calais to Dover.

The comfort of your fur babies is our priority 🤮🤮


View attachment 169838

View attachment 169840


View attachment 169841

This supports the industry which imports these foreign dogs while UK dogs in need (and there are sadly plenty of those) are overlooked.

Sorry but as soon as an organisation calls the dogs fur babies I can’t take them seriously.
 
didn't see you last line. The answer is surely personal choice for that person. Some people agree with it, some don't and as with everything they are free to have their views and make their choices. No more, no less.
It’s personal choice until it effects other people/beings, at which point responsible choices become important
 
Surely you mean how some Romanian dogs are transported?

I know you want to believe that every dog that has been transported here is living its best life and is so much happier than where they came from, been treated with the best possible care, couldn’t possibly have any diseases or end up in a shelter here but you can only speak for your experience and your dogs which seems to have gone well so far. Other people have had different experiences and it’s not all sunshine and roses.

I just don’t see the harm in people having concerns not only for these dogs but also the risk to their own pets.
it is a description as to how these were transported ie dogs and I transport that I could personally evaluate. I don't think most others on here have even that small level of personal experience they are just giving their comments about the transport. From my rescue's comments it is how most are transported ATM just different vehicles, different cages, different people etc but the basics are the same. I was told beforehand exactly what would happen and it did.
I can only speak from my experience having at least done it with 2 at opposite ends of the spectrum. Others don't even have that.

I agree it is not all sunshine and roses. I'm not sure why anyone would think I thought that. You describe failures and without doubt there are failures. There are also successes which many on here don't even like to consider.
I don't know how many failures there are. There are comments on the other thread which talk of a 25% return rate of failed homes. That is for UK rescues. It is also after home checks. That is to my mind a very high return percentage if a UK rescue should be used rather than a foreign one. I don't dispute it, I am sure it is correct. So UK rescues are not perfect and have relatively high return rates. I don't think that is always the case of the rescues, I'm sure that without any doubt some people lie and some lie a lot to get a dog. They wouldn't get that dog without their lies. So it won't work out. Some simply over rate their own experience level. Some dogs are difficult. Neither UK nor foreign are perfect and never will be. Do some dogs from Rommie rescues end up getting a good life in the UK then from the success stories undoubtedly they do.

There was a sarcastic comment on here about money. Someone quoted the Rommie adoption fee as £500 which is probably about correct. A comment and lots of likes from the knowledgeable "dog" people about how much money they were making.
Similar comment on the other thread from a rescue person talking about £500 and UK rescues saying she doubted they were doing more than covering their costs and for longer stays and those that needed vet treatment it wouldn't even cover what the rescue had spent. Not a single comment about how well financially UK rescues must be doing.

If Romme rescues are obviously rolling in money at those sort of prices why aren't UK ones. I doubt either are.
 
Pretty selfish to put other people's dogs at risk.

Gov.uk

Unfortunately, there is no consistently effective treatment protocol for canine brucellosis. The only way to completely eliminate the risk of transmission of canine brucellosis is by euthanasia of the infected animals. Where owners do not wish to carry out euthanasia, risk reduction steps are recommended to be undertaken for positive animals. These steps will mitigate the risk of spread to other animals, owners and veterinary personnel handling these animals.



Comments on a brucella canis FB page:

"I have come to the decision that I wont have her tested"

"The majority of BC+ dogs here aren't isolated."

"do not ever entertain the idea of euthanasia
Your dog is no different to the day before you had this diagnosis and will be the same going forward.
There are loads of dogs the have been diagnosed as positive living a perfectly normal life with their families.
Just look on here & the other brucella pages, you will see loads and loads."

"Come over and join us in ************ where you will be welcomed by lots of owners of positive dogs, the majority of which will attest to absolutely nothing changing in theirs or their dog’s lives."

"Just carry on as normal and enjoy your dog. I have one positive and one negative dog. We go on holiday to the beach, they are walked twice a day,"
 
My dog travelled from Cyprus. She flew Larnica to Maastricht then collected by Petways an established independent pet travel company. The two drivers were very caring and experienced, good at handling the dogs. My girl was a very frightened large dog who remained in her travelling crate for the journey until we could extract her and get her into our boot. She showed no signs of aggression at all and has a very gentle nature. I knew this already through contact with her rescue. I had also seen her with young children, cats, chickens and other dogs. She is simply a beautiful dog who has fitted in perfectly. She deserved this chance as would not otherwise have survived. She was fully vaccinated and B tested before travel. How you can continue to denigrate and poke fun at this type of animal rescue operation I fail to understand. We either care about animals or not regardless of their origin, as with people in my opinion.
 
My dog travelled from Cyprus. She flew Larnica to Maastricht then collected by Petways an established independent pet travel company. The two drivers were very caring and experienced, good at handling the dogs. My girl was a very frightened large dog who remained in her travelling crate for the journey until we could extract her and get her into our boot. She showed no signs of aggression at all and has a very gentle nature. I knew this already through contact with her rescue. I had also seen her with young children, cats, chickens and other dogs. She is simply a beautiful dog who has fitted in perfectly. She deserved this chance as would not otherwise have survived. She was fully vaccinated and B tested before travel. How you can continue to denigrate and poke fun at this type of animal rescue operation I fail to understand. We either care about animals or not regardless of their origin, as with people in my opinion.
Has she been tested post import?
 
Very well said. 👏 We either care about animals or not regardless of their origin, as with people in my opinion.
I care about animals; however I care about MY animals more than those belonging to others. Therefore when the behaviour, health status or whatever of those others (animal or human) can have a deleterious impact on MINE, that is when I object. Selfish? Maybe, but I really don’t give a flying fig so long as MINE are okay first and foremost and not put into jeopardy.
 
While rehoming an imported dog is not what I would do personally, and there is no denying that there are more environmental risks then most of us were aware of even a few years ago, done responsibly, it's better than obtaining a dog via puppy farming or some of the popular trading websites. However, responsibly to me would be isolation from the general dog population - not a bad option for some of these dogs mentally - until they had the later test for BC and being prepared to PTS if positive. I wouldn't want to do that so won't consider a foreign import even from one of the more ethical rescues. Sadly, there aren't many of them and that is another big issue.

I get the impression that those who go the import route, want a rescue but don't want to work with the conditions that UK rescues have - they want to pick a dog they like the look of primarily and get it quickly with minimal hoops to jump through, just pay your money which isn't really how UK rescues work.

In the big scheme of things, £500 isn't a lot for a dog. In my breed, a decent pup is £1500 - £2k plus all the associated costs once they're home so £500 looks like a bargain :) Just out of interest Paddy, feel free to ignore, how much are the extra blood tests costing? I have no idea of costs for stuff like that and presumably any treatment needed if something pops up wouldn't be covered under insurance as it's a pre existing condition?
 
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