Retire or pts?

[L&M]

Hi all

I am in a real dilemma as my cob has been diagnosed with pastern arthritis/high ringbone as well as possible hock spavin, (we are having more x rays next week to confirm the hocks.) My vet is hoping to keep him comfortable with regular joint injections and low level bute, but even with these, he is likely to only be useable as a light hack.

My partner thinks we should retire him at home, but we don't have enough land to do this - we only have 3 acres and a couple of stables. Currently we only have one other horse but being realistic, I would be buying another horse at some stage.

The other significant issue is providing him company - he is used to going everywhere with my partners horse, and gets bad separation anxiety if left on his own. For his condition living out 24/7 would be the ideal, but we haven't enough land spare to get a companion as well. If we bring him in gets distressed if my partner wants to do anything with his horse.

He also needs work to keep his weight down, so summers would be miserable as would have to restrict his grass intake. Coupled with regular steroid injections would then bring on the concern of laminitis. Conversely in winter he is white legged and prone to mud fever so living out could also cause its own problems......we would happily put up a shelter for him but would not solve the company issue.

I have looked into Retirement livery but too expensive, and I would not want to loan him out in case his situation was abused.

He is only 15 so have to consider that he may live well into his twenties.......I am not sure how happy a life that would be even if we could keep him comfortable. He is used to a very fast paced, active life and still relatively young, so doesn't seem much life for him to stand around being lonely, in a small field, doing nothing.

I owe this horse a lot, he has seen me through some really tough times, so even considering pts makes me feel sick to the stomach, but if I can't provide the life for him he needs, maybe the best option?

Any other ideas/thoughts gratefully received......

Thanks.

 

[Snow Falcon]

I think you should wait until the hock xrays before starting to consider options. You know the horse and what he would/wouldn't cope with but perhaps don't try and second guess things at present.

Having them PTS certainly isn't a pleasant decision to make, been there recently. Quality of life should always come first.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Have you considered arthramid instead of steroids?
Its not completely the same but my horse is 14, arthritic hocks and coffin joint and she can still school, low level dressage and jump for fun/ go on fun rides. She does not need bute.
Arthramid does not have a risk of laminitis either.
It certainly is tricky with the stabling/turnout situation especially if he doesn't like being alone. I hope you find a solution but have a read up about arthramid!

 

[L&M]

Have you considered arthramid instead of steroids?
Its not completely the same but my horse is 14, arthritic hocks and coffin joint and she can still school, low level dressage and jump for fun/ go on fun rides. She does not need bute.
Arthramid does not have a risk of laminitis either.
It certainly is tricky with the stabling/turnout situation especially if he doesn't like being alone. I hope you find a solution but have a read up about arthramid!

Thanks that is really helpful - I have heard of it but my vet only mentioned steroids or HA. I will ask him on monday.

Has your horse returned to being sound on it, and how often are you having it injected?

 

[SantaVera]

I keep 3 on 2 acres. it is doable. we even manage to take hay off a little of it . think track system. mine have various health issures but they have good quality of life are fed hay daily and have company, shade, somewhere to wander about, all the things they need. it is doable. i'm sure your cob coud continue to ejoy life if you can get the medication right.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I agree 3 acres is plenty. Companion and other factors need taking into account as well though.
ive got 4 on 5 acres. I have to be a bit careful but if you wanted to go down that route it’s doable.

 

[Landcruiser]

I have 3 on 3 acres, one long retired, one semi retired in light hacking, and a youngster. I count my blessings that I can keep the oldies - without suitable land of my own, I'd have to PTS. It's a tough call OP, but do look at track systems/equicentral systems before thinking "only" with 3 acres.

 

[oldie48]

TBH I don't think anyone else can help when it comes to making a decision with regard to retirement v pts. It's just such a difficult decision and no-one understands your situation better than you do. I don't think anyone should ever make another owner feel guilty about making the difficult decision when faced with a horse that may live for years but is unable to be ridden or only lightly ridden. I've got a retired horse that will probably outlive me,
edit to say

 

[oldie48]

Given up trying to edit! Basically, I've made arrangements for her, should I go first but that is not set in stone as I may make a decision about her before that. It is just very difficult. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[SO1]

PTS seems a bit hasty in my opinion but agree everyone's situation is different and in some cases horse are kept going longer than they should be when they are not happy. It is a very difficult decision.

I agree try the arthramid it is longer lasting than steroids and no laminitis risk.

What is his routine now? If he is an easy ride could you find a sharer who enjoys gentle hacking who might be able to help cover the costs of getting another horse as a companion.

Laminitis is horrible disease and you are right to be concerned about the steroid risk and weight control. Grazing muzzles and soaked hay could help keep his weight down but a good doer who cannot be worked is hard work in terms of weight control and not everyone has the time or resources to be able to manage that situation.

 

[L&M]

I keep 3 on 2 acres. it is doable. we even manage to take hay off a little of it . think track system. mine have various health issures but they have good quality of life are fed hay daily and have company, shade, somewhere to wander about, all the things they need. it is doable. i'm sure your cob coud continue to ejoy life if you can get the medication right.

I keep 3 on 2 acres. it is doable. we even manage to take hay off a little of it . think track system. mine have various health issures but they have good quality of life are fed hay daily and have company, shade, somewhere to wander about, all the things they need. it is doable. i'm sure your cob coud continue to ejoy life if you can get the medication right.

Yes i do agree its 'do-able'

I keep 3 on 2 acres. it is doable. we even manage to take hay off a little of it . think track system. mine have various health issures but they have good quality of life are fed hay daily and have company, shade, somewhere to wander about, all the things they need. it is doable. i'm sure your cob coud continue to ejoy life if you can get the medication right.

Are they living out? Are they in the same routine?

I wouldn't have an issue if his riding buddy was also retiring - being of similar ages we had had the romantic vision of them both retiring together and seeing out their days pottering around with each other for company. But as is usual with horses, things don't go to plan.....

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I've read and re-read what you've said OP - this could have been me writing this a year ago with my old girl as it wasn't just ONE issue it was lots of them - and the combined factor meant that even keeping her at home, I just could not manage her multiplicity of issues and for me the real question was "quality of life". Bless you, but I get this sense that deep down you know you may have to make a tough decision.......

You say you're not sure you "can provide the life he needs". This I think is the crux of the matter:- There are a LOT of issues going on for him. There is the "company" issue - he will struggle with that. Also there is the weight issue which because you cannot exercise him means that he is at high risk of development of laminitis, coupled with the steroid injections he needs which will push that risk even higher - and will not be cheap either. And in the winter he struggles with mud fever.

I share your concern that loaning him out leaves him wide open to abuse and/or one of the many sad cases that "disappears" on loan; and because you are a responsible, conscientious & caring owner you are obviously not prepared to do what a lot of people in your situation do which is to offer him as a "companion" and thus pass on their problem of making "the decision" to someone else when the time comes. Because you love and care about him you are doing the responsible thing and considering his future; and you are having to consider the unthinkable, simply because you CARE. And there is nothing wrong with saying OK the time has come and here I have a horse that has a helluva lot basically wrong with it AND will cost a fortune as well, and I am not prepared to pass the problem on to someone else. I had to do this with my old gal last summer. Sometimes there is nothing else to do. You should not feel guilty if you feel that the cost of future veterinary attention means you may need to make a decision for economic reasons either.

However as others have said it doesn't sound like the decision is an urgent one??, not yet anyway, so I think what you need to do before making that PTS decision is to look at all alternatives:-

I would certainly speak with your vet and ask for an honest no-holds-barred appraisal of what your way forward might be in this situation. Your vet obviously cannot tell you what to do, but a good honest chat may be helpful to you to know what the long-term prognosis might be when the X-rays are back. You could also research alternatives to long-term bute.

Also I would urge you to consider perhaps putting in a Track system - you own your own land so don't need to ask anybody! - as this will make very good use of your land and you may find that you DO have the facility to care for him at home. Would a few sheep on the pasture be an option? (ask a local farmer don't buy your own!). Whilst this wouldn't be another equine for him, it just might help to have something at least on the pasture with him.

However, if you DO feel that all things considered PTS is the kindest thing possible for him (and/or it is economically unviable) you would have my support in this. Sometimes there is just too much going on for them and you just have to call time and let them go.

So sorry you're in this position, it is never easy. You are a lovely owner and obviously want what's best for your horse.

 

[L&M]

PTS seems a bit hasty in my opinion but agree everyone's situation is different and in some cases horse are kept going longer than they should be when they are not happy. It is a very difficult decision.

I agree try the arthramid it is longer lasting than steroids and no laminitis risk.

What is his routine now? If he is an easy ride could you find a sharer who enjoys gentle hacking who might be able to help cover the costs of getting another horse as a companion.

Laminitis is horrible disease and you are right to be concerned about the steroid risk and weight control. Grazing muzzles and soaked hay could help keep his weight down but a good doer who cannot be worked is hard work in terms of weight control and not everyone has the time or resources to be able to manage that situation.

Thanks.

He would possibly be ok to find a sharer for light hacking, and tbh would help me out if I did get another horse as would take the pressure of me trying to exercise both.

He is a very sensible hack but we don't live in great hacking country, mainly roadwork, so may not appeal to all. I also need to see if he comes, and stays sound, on whatever injections we end up having before I can offer him up.

 

[L&M]

I've read and re-read what you've said OP - this could have been me writing this a year ago with my old girl as it wasn't just ONE issue it was lots of them - and the combined factor meant that even keeping her at home, I just could not manage her multiplicity of issues and for me the real question was "quality of life". Bless you, but I get this sense that deep down you know you may have to make a tough decision.......

You say you're not sure you "can provide the life he needs". This I think is the crux of the matter:- There are a LOT of issues going on for him. There is the "company" issue - he will struggle with that. Also there is the weight issue which because you cannot exercise him means that he is at high risk of development of laminitis, coupled with the steroid injections he needs which will push that risk even higher. And in the winter he struggles with mud fever.

I share your concern that loaning him out leaves him wide open to abuse and/or one of the many sad cases that "disappears" on loan.

Because you are a responsible, conscientious & caring owner you are obviously not prepared to do what a lot of people in your situation do which is to offer him as a "companion" and thus pass on their problem of making "the decision" to someone else when the time comes. Because you love and care about him you are doing the responsible thing and considering his future; and you are having to consider the unthinkable, simply because you CARE. And there is nothing wrong with saying OK the time has come and here I have a horse that has a helluva lot basically wrong with it, and to PTS because of that. I had to do this with my old gal last summer. Sometimes there is nothing else to do.

However as others have said it doesn't sound like the decision is an urgent one, so I think what you need to do before making that PTS decision is to look at all alternatives: it may be that someone you know and trust IS looking for a companion and they would be able to cater for his specific needs - with other horses around. Appreciating you don't want to loan him out, and yes loans DO go badly wrong even with people you may think you know, but it might be worth an ask-around at the local pony club/hunt etc.

I would certainly speak with your vet and ask for an honest no-holds-barred appraisal of what your way forward might be in this situation. You could also research alternatives to long-term bute.

Also I would urge you to consider perhaps putting in a Track system - you own your own land so don't need to ask anybody! - as this will make very good use of your land and you may find that you DO have the facility to care for him at home. Would a few sheep on the pasture be an option? (ask a local farmer don't buy your own!). Whilst this wouldn't be another equine for him, it just might help to have something at least on the pasture with him.

However, if you DO feel that all things considered PTS is the kindest thing possible for him, you would have my support in this. Sometimes there is just too much going on for them and you just have to call time and let them go.

So sorry you're in this position, it is never easy. You are a lovely owner and obviously want what's best for your horse.

Thank you for your kind words, you have bought a tear to my eye - you make some very sensible points which I will take on board, and so sorry to hear you have had to go through the same decision making process.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Perhaps you could find somewhere for him to retire. I have a friend's mare with mine as she had to retire and preferably live out but owner didn't have the facilities so she has lived with my two oldies for the last seven years. She is happy and very easy to keep along side mine. Owner pays for all feed, farrier, vet, dentist etc but i look after her day to day. I would wait until you have the full medical picture and see if you can manage with the facilities you have as long as he is not in oain.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Yes my one is sound on the injections without using bute. i do unaff dressage and hack/fun rides she is great.
Not sure yet on how long the arthramid will last, vet has only just offered it to me a few months ago, in the studies it does say up to 24 months inbetween injections.
It is more expensive than steroid at around £300 per injection so cost is something to consider

 

[L&M]

Yes my one is sound on the injections without using bute. i do unaff dressage and hack/fun rides she is great.
Not sure yet on how long the arthramid will last, vet has only just offered it to me a few months ago, in the studies it does say up to 24 months inbetween injections.
It is more expensive than steroid at around £300 per injection so cost is something to consider

Cost would be irrelevant if I could give him some of his life back!

 

[Ratface]

L&M, you sound like the owner every horse should have.
I have absolute confidence that you will know what the kindest outcome will be and that you will ensure your horse benefits from it.

 

[lynz88]

Faced a very very similar situation and had the same thoughts - I could ship mine off to retirement but I want a horse to ride and can't afford 2....which left me with only the PTS option. Mine has so many areas of arthritis and has so much other stuff going on it has been on my mind with mine too.

however, as a "second last ditch effort" I pulled shoes and suddenly had a happier horse. My vet was especially impressed. Then have had some other stuff happen and the PTS/retirement dilemma resurfaced. With someone else's suggestion on here, I tried something totally outside the box and am going to keep on the same track and I've got a super super happy horse (will see what else I can add to keep inflammation down). I also tried out hoof boots and the difference for mine - especially on his LF where he has major arthritic issues in the navicular and sidebone has been a game changer. For reference, mine should be dead....he has the LF problems as mentioned but also has arthritis in the hock that interferes with the suspensory in both hinds but thr LH especially affects him and arthritis in his neck. He also has other issues. I keep him on Cartrophen for good measure. He had an injection in thr LH hock about 18 months ago and we know he needs another soon but is managing on 1 bute for the moment (though I want to see if I change his gut microbiome, whether this is still needed or can be managed via herbs instead). He is only a (very happy happy at the moment) hacker but I accept it.

Basically, there may be some other ways to help him manage and it may be worth just taking one day at a time but each horse is a unique case. Been in your shoes a few times in the past 20 months or so.....

 

[lynz88]

Cost would be irrelevant if I could give him some of his life back!

And £300 every 2 years isn't that bad when you think about it!

 

[pistolpete]

I’m in a similar situation. My highland is retired I have difficulty keeping the weight off him and steroid injections would be dangerous. He was fully retired December 2020 and we’ve got this far but it’s a worry. Best of luck. Mine is only 15 too.

 

[SantaVera]

Yes i do agree its 'do-able'


Are they living out? Are they in the same routine?

I wouldn't have an issue if his riding buddy was also retiring - being of similar ages we had had the romantic vision of them both retiring together and seeing out their days pottering around with each other for company. But as is usual with horses, things don't go to plan.....

yes they are out 24/7 they have a choice of 2 field shelters and i also have a stable which can be used to keep one in ofr worm counts /vet visits or whathave you

 

[MagicMelon]

I retired one of mine at the age of 15 (DDFT injury), he was an eventer and very much an active type. He used to be funny about being left etc. however he surprised me and has never bene bothered when I take the other horse away from him. I only have him and one other horse (which is my rideable one), I only have 1.5 acres so I feed hay all year round. He settled into it fine, far better than I thought he would. Yes its not ideal, I would rather have the ridable horse and a pony which my kids could ride but I dont have the land and to me that felt very selfish. I owe my horse a nice retirement, I went out of my way to provide him with one and will continue to do so. I would never ever put a horse down out of convenience.

 

[fankino04]

I retired one of mine at the age of 15 (DDFT injury), he was an eventer and very much an active type. He used to be funny about being left etc. however he surprised me and has never bene bothered when I take the other horse away from him. I only have him and one other horse (which is my rideable one), I only have 1.5 acres so I feed hay all year round. He settled into it fine, far better than I thought he would. Yes its not ideal, I would rather have the ridable horse and a pony which my kids could ride but I dont have the land and to me that felt very selfish. I owe my horse a nice retirement, I went out of my way to provide him with one and will continue to do so. I would never ever put a horse down out of convenience.

Whilst I'm probably a very similar person to you in that mine was retired at 12 and keeping her through her retirement has meant I can't afford another one so I have in essence given up riding and I would not change this decision, I do think your last sentence is rather cruel. OP is not considering pts as a convenience, they are deciding what quality of life they can give their horse if they retire them.

 

[milliepops]

Whilst I'm probably a very similar person to you in that mine was retired at 12 and keeping her through her retirement has meant I can't afford another one so I have in essence given up riding and I would not change this decision, I do think your last sentence is rather cruel. OP is not considering pts as a convenience, they are deciding what quality of life they can give their horse if they retire them.

agreed. I have retirees at home and they are gladly kept as long as they have a good QOL. However i had my wobbler TB put down "out of convenience" according to this definition but it was really because he would not suit the retired life i could offer. which would either be to rough it in the field with my native types, in the mud, poor weather etc all winter... or to stay on the yard with no turnout over winter. neither of those would meet his needs in any way. In his case I am completely at peace with the decision to let him go before either of the other options i had started to cause him to suffer.

 

[Getbackboys]

mine had bone spavin diagnosed at 15 lived until 23 was not competed but did hack and for a number of miles at a time, had hocks injected and occassional bute for 5 days only when needed it mainly in winter, lived out rugged, p6s imo is rather drastic but you know your horse. can they inject with ethanol and fuse the hock

 

[Pegasus5531]

I recently faced this same decision under different circumstances. I had a mare that had a very severe tendon injury that just was not healing. The injured leg would just hang limply and she could not put weight on it. However there was the possibility of turning her away and seeing what would happen after already having over 6 months on box rest with absolutely no progress. Various people gave me opinions, all of which I appreciated but at the end of the day I looked at my horse and I knew that she would not be able to retire happily (she had been a fit active horse before the injury) and that the injury wouldn't ever be at the point of being manageable enough for her to have a good quality of life.

One thing I will say is I found that the vets were very supportive when I decided to pts and they said they believed it to be the right decision but that they hadn't wanted to say that before so as not to sway my judgement. I would have actually preferred them to tell me before as I spent a long time agonising over the decision so maybe be blunt with your vets and ask what they would do if it were their horse?

It's a horrible situation to be in. Only you can ever know what to do for the best but don't ever feel guilty about making the decision to pts if the horse will not have a good quality of life. There are much worse fates for a horse than spending their final day loved and cared for and not knowing that they are going to leave you.

 

[HashRouge]

Whilst I'm probably a very similar person to you in that mine was retired at 12 and keeping her through her retirement has meant I can't afford another one so I have in essence given up riding and I would not change this decision, I do think your last sentence is rather cruel. OP is not considering pts as a convenience, they are deciding what quality of life they can give their horse if they retire them.

I don't think it was meant to be cruel though. I think MM was specifically talking about having a horse put to sleep just so that it can be replaced with a ridable one. Obviously if the OP can't manage to give her horse a good retirement with the facilities/ finances available, then that is different (or if it can't be kept pain free). But I do feel sad when people have a horse put to sleep just so they can get a new riding horse. Probably why I've got two useless field ornaments taking up all my time and money . Do you know though, I genuinely can't imagine anyone on this forum gets more enjoyment out of their riding horses than I do out of my two retirees.

 

[Winters100]

I don't think it was meant to be cruel though. I think MM was specifically talking about having a horse put to sleep just so that it can be replaced with a ridable one. Obviously if the OP can't manage to give her horse a good retirement with the facilities/ finances available, then that is different (or if it can't be kept pain free). But I do feel sad when people have a horse put to sleep just so they can get a new riding horse. Probably why I've got two useless field ornaments taking up all my time and money . Do you know though, I genuinely can't imagine anyone on this forum gets more enjoyment out of their riding horses than I do out of my two retirees.

Everyone is different, but I have to say that I would take the same route as you. My understanding of OP's situation is that retirement livery is not an option because it would not leave sufficient funds for a riding horse, and that the cheaper options for keeping the horse would not offer sufficient quality of life. I have in the past been in a similar situation, and had to be without my own riding horse for some years, until funds and time allowed to keep my retiree and another. It is not my place to judge the decisions of others, but equally I do not think you can claim to 'love' a horse if you could make a decision to PTS rather than offer retirement on the basis that retirement livery would not leave you sufficient funds for your hobby.

In OP's position I would look for the best retirement livery that I could find, and as long as quality of life there was acceptable then I would accept that my responsibility as owner did not allow me to keep another horse for riding. I would also say that my experience has always been that there are many people glad for some help with their horses, we constantly hear of people saying that they do not have time to exercise their horses enough, so I would expect OP would have many offers of horses to ride in this situation.

 

[SO1]

My understanding is that it is not that straightforward. OP keeps horses at home if she sends this one to retirement livery as she does not have suitable options to retire at home due to weight management then she will have to get a companion for her partners ridden horse and she cannot afford three horses.

Everyone is different, but I have to say that I would take the same route as you. My understanding of OP's situation is that retirement livery is not an option because it would not leave sufficient funds for a riding horse, and that the cheaper options for keeping the horse would not offer sufficient quality of life. I have in the past been in a similar situation, and had to be without my own riding horse for some years, until funds and time allowed to keep my retiree and another. It is not my place to judge the decisions of others, but equally I do not think you can claim to 'love' a horse if you could make a decision to PTS rather than offer retirement on the basis that retirement livery would not leave you sufficient funds for your hobby.

In OP's position I would look for the best retirement livery that I could find, and as long as quality of life there was acceptable then I would accept that my responsibility as owner did not allow me to keep another horse for riding. I would also say that my experience has always been that there are many people glad for some help with their horses, we constantly hear of people saying that they do not have time to exercise their horses enough, so I would expect OP would have many offers of horses to ride in this situation.