Reversing a nappy horse- why?!

[Kallibear]

It doesn't make any sense?! Yet it's something people reccomend regularly on here??

You have a horse who refuses to go forwards because it doesn't want to go in that direction for whatever reason (doesn't want to leave home, doesn't want to go through a puddle etc). How is aiming at it backwards going to help?

They want to go west (for want of a direction), you want them to go east. So what, you turn their nose west and try and force them to go backwards in an east direction? They find going forwards easier (yet aren't willing to do it) so why would they now be willing to reverse in that direction?! How do you force them? Just pull hard?

Or are you meant to stay facing east and reverse west, to presumably 'teach them a lesson'? So now you've just got a horse who's closer to their desired direction than before?

As for trying to reverse into something they're frightened of (i.e a puddle): that makes absolutely no sense when you think about how they think. There is nothing more frightening for a horse than to be 'attacked' from behind, so how is trying to force them to have their hind toes chewed by a puddle going to work?

I can understand using backwards for a horse who's refusing to go in any direction, to get their feet moving again, but to make a stubborn horse go in a particularly undesirable direction:, I don't get it? Are they really that stupid that simply turning them around and reversing makes them forget which direction they don't want to go in?! I

 

[FfionWinnie]

It's ridiculous. I had a perfectly fine horse in all ways went on loan and started napping so the imbecile that had her did this. She then started rearing?! I had this horse from 2-14 yrs and she never put a foot wrong. Imbecile dumped her back on me at 17 yrs and she went to a lass who has also never had a bit of bother with her. Unreal.

 

[ladyt25]

I don't get it? Are they really that stupid that simply turning them around and reversing makes them forget which direction they don't want to go in?! I

Think you've answered your own question there. Yes, yes there are that stupid! hehe

Seriously though, I don't know why, maybe it just confuses their brain a little bit and possibly calms them? I have a pony (have had him 20 years) and he hates anything larger than a sort of 7.5T lorry size. He is much worse if we meet them coming towards us on a normal village type road. He will not go past them and will spin or try and reverse (at high speed) away. However, if I turn him so his bottom is facing it, he will reverse past said terrifying object much more calmly. It got to the stage where he would actually do this himself when we met something too big for his brain to cope with. I think though his issue was more the lack of space he felt he had to get past the vehicle.

It's about being in control of where their legs are I guess and, from basic groundwork this is what you'd do (ie ask the horse to back up) in order to help get them balanced and control where their legs are placed. That is something I have been shown fairly recently but maybe it does all tie in with the "turn it round and reverse it idea". You still get to keep going in the direction you want but you gain control of the legs!

 

[Tern]

Yes i never got this, I always thought they meant to reverse them to meant keep feet moving not turn around and reverse.. Answering to question about how to back up - If you put your legs back and squeeze then put pressure on reins then as a baby they /should/ have been taught to back up at this time If my horse just was plain stubborn and it was appropriate place then i'd just get off and make her walk through/past it because i can easily get back on in 5.5 ish and she's only 15hh

 

[monkeybum13]

Think you've answered your own question there. Yes, yes there are that stupid! hehe

Yes, yes they are! I have ridden a few nappy horses that refuse to go forwards for no reason but quite happily rein back and go by the object.

 

[Lolo]

With some horses, if they are allowed to stop moving you've lost the battle straight away. Al's mare, Bee, was one- if she planted it was going to be the long haul getting any movement again, whereas if you could keep her moving (regardless of how) you could get past the issue. Same with horses refusing to go into water and similar- if they plant, they can think a lot more. And generally, the best place for them to think is actually in the water when they've realised they're not going to be drowned...

 

[toomanyhorses26]

going to stick my had out here and say I hav reversed my hors - he is an ex racer who had issues with going alone on way out of the yard he was on - he would stand up full height and always spin in one direction - I would always give him the option of walking out normally but the first sign of a rear,spin and bog off combo I would reverse him round the corner (as a rule 10-15 strides up the road) stand ,pat on the neck and walk him on a usual -99% of the time it defused the fight before it became a ridiculous fight - I have come off on the road off him before,ended up in hedges and generally thrown about. I think it is part confusion on the horses part,part diffusion of an argument - mine had been taught rein back in the school so understood the aids I was asking for - was just an extended version of what he had been taught in the school

 

[Lulup]

Quite often a nappy horse will put itself into 'reverse' as a very effective part of its refusal to go forward, at which point turning it round ensures that it doesn't achieve the desired outcome. Dealing with a nappy horse requires patience and sense - I prefer non confrontational tactics as a head on battle raises adrenalin levels and can escalate the situation unnecessarily but circumstances sometimes dictate otherwise.

 

[NellRosk]

It's worked for one of my horses because he was a lazy stubborn s*** and far too lazy to expend too much energy rearing!! So I made him go backwards for a bit, he realised it was hard work and easier to go forwards. However my mare who rears when she's stressed went straight up when I reversed her. So depends on the horse! Would never try it again on a horse prone to standing up

 

[Shantara]

Me and another lad used to do it to get Ned in the show ring.

If he saw he was going in the ring, he would not move and would often rear or spin. He was good at going backwards without being yanked in the gob, so I would walk him up to the ring, turn him around and take two or three steps back and he was in! He realised once the rope was across, he'd been defeated.
I no longer have to do it.

 

[Kallibear]

With some horses, if they are allowed to stop moving you've lost the battle straight away. Al's mare, Bee, was one- if she planted it was going to be the long haul getting any movement again, whereas if you could keep her moving (regardless of how) you could get past the issue. Same with horses refusing to go into water and similar- if they plant, they can think a lot more. And generally, the best place for them to think is actually in the water when they've realised they're not going to be drowned...

I can understand the keep moving mentality, but backwards? ! I've circled and spun them to either keep them moving or to make not going forwards unpleasant but why backwards? If you are going to reverse in the direction you want to go, you need to stop and turn first. And if you just go back the way you've been then you're even further away from the undesirable direction.

As for reversing a water phobic horse into nasty wetness that they can't see, I can just imagine the panicked lashing out I'd get from the ones I know.

I've ridden the odd nappy horse (one with a serious nappy issue) and they were quite quite sure of the direction they didn't want to go in and no amount of facing the other way would fool them!

Answering to question about how to back up - If you put your legs back and squeeze then put pressure on reins then as a baby they /should/ have been taught to back up at this time*

It wasn't a genuine question They should know how to back up but equally they also know how to walk on when told but aren't willing to do so, so why should they be more willing to reverse, so how do you force them? By just pulling presumably?

 

[Bazzel]

I have a rearer who used to be very very nappy on hacks. Only way to get him to go and stop him going up was reversing (discovered this by accident) we'd go 10 strides or so and he'd turn back round, relax completely and walk on as if nothing had happened. Hacks out like a dream now! Doesn't make a lot of sense but horses don't possess the power of logical reasoning

 

[Hedge_pig]

Yep, used to reverse my old loan mare, she wasn't keen on water and when we first moved to a new yard a watermain had burst and water was running across the road that lead to our main hacking route.

For ever after that she would nap at that junction, even once the water had gone, each time she used to nap backwards when asked to go around the corner, so I turned her around and backed her all the way around the bend. It always worked without fail, once we got past a certain point we could turn round and continue our hack. She never went up and I was determined I wouldn't give in, we would have our hack whatever direction we were going in.

 

[rara007]

When my old nappy WB got in a tizz there was no getting him to go forwards but he was so thick/in a tizz you could do the tricky bits of the hack backwards if you caught him unaware mid paddy. It stopped him rearing dangerously high like he would do it you pushed him on forwards.

 

[ladyt25]

I have a rearer who used to be very very nappy on hacks. Only way to get him to go and stop him going up was reversing (discovered this by accident) we'd go 10 strides or so and he'd turn back round, relax completely and walk on as if nothing had happened. Hacks out like a dream now! Doesn't make a lot of sense but horses don't possess the power of logical reasoning

That was the same with mine - reversing him if he got stressed seems to de-stress him, like he would go "oh yes, I understand that so everything's ok". It doesn't make a lot of sense to us but if it works then so be it. I have actually reversed mine UP a very steep hill as he decided a bit of sun shining on some wet up the road was terrifying! It was either him reversing back down the hill very quickly or me making him reverse upwards. We soon came to an agreement that actually walking forwards up the hill was a lot easier!

 

[jeeve]

Actually - the two are related, forward and reverse. The better you can teach your horse backing in ground work, (light ask, fast /responsive) the lighter and more responsive your forward can be.

 

[Lolo]

If they're moving you're winning with the seriously nappy ones. With Bee, eve if she spun and started reversing she was ultimately doing what was asked of her- as long as she wasn't going towards home, she was fine... Al spent many an hour stranded as she'd not anticipated a nap soon enough and had got completely stuck. It's not so much as reversing them but taking what they're offering and making it into what you want. They spin and try and go back home or start reversing, so you either completely block the spin or try and turn the momentum into the direction you want (even if it's facing the wrong way).

The water thing works surprisingly well. The horse has, at the point you try this, already said no to going in facing forwards. Once they're in the water, you sometimes have to cling on but generally they stand there huffing and puffing in horror and then realise it's not all bad. Unless the fear is born from an actual bad experience the method works well. But we work on the idea that the horse ultimately has to understand you aren't going to demand it does anything dangerous and should just do as told for a easy life...

 

[*hic*]

I've also reversed horses and recommended it. When you've got one that says it will not go forward unless it can spin and go back home and if you stop it spinning it will back up at high speed into a dangerous situation then if you turn it and ask it to reverse it will often decide that actually going where you were pointing it in the first place is easier.

It might not be suitable for every horse (and from the tone of this thread, every rider) but it's a useful tool to have in the box.

 

[LaMooch]

I have used reversing on a horse who would not hack on his own. He would not leave the yard in a forward movement so I made him go backwards and he did it and once left the yard he happily hacked out. I did have to do the reversing a few times till he understood he would always come back to his play mate then he would leave the yard in a very happy and forward walk.

As been said previously this can not work on every horse as each horse is an individual and we must treat them as such so to me it is trial and error to what works with one horse may not work with another

 

[Abacus]

I'm one of the people that suggested it in another thread about going through puddles, although I have never needed to try it myself. I haven't had a horse that was so reluctant I have needed it. But I have heard anecdotal evidence that it works, and so it seems have a number of other people replying to this.

I do agree with OP that horses aren't that stupid - if you turn them round, they still know that the water (or the wheelie bin, scary bush or daisy) is there - yet somehow not seeing it helps. Similar to blinkers, I guess. Anyway, I don't think it's dangerous, and it's sometimes worth a try.

 

[zigzag]

Had a mare that napped, she spun round and round then started walking backwards (in the direction I actually wished to go), so I just sat there, cos she wasn't a horse you could fight... she kept walking backwards, If I asked her to stop or turn she just walked backwards faster, she went over 2 miles backwards.... got a few funny looks of people lol when she eventually stopped even though I never asked her to go backwards, she never napped again,

I always find with a napping horse the best way was to sit it out, sat for 3 hours on a livery that napped leaving yard, but he never napped again

 

[3Beasties]

I had an extremely nappy horse who was a complete nightmare. I used the reversing technique and for the first time in 5 months it allowed me to complete a ride without having to get off.

My mare is extremely clever so she soon realised that she had two options. Going forward was the easy option, reversing was the hard one. In reversing her I was able to take back the control that I needed and she soon realised that going forward was far less hassle.

I never turn her around to reverse though as it causes more problems, she is always reveresed so that we are facing the direction I wish to go.

It may not work for everyone but it worked for me which is why I often recommend it. My horse wouldn't still be with me had that break through not happened.

 

[ridefast]

Hey, if it works it works! All horses are different, all people are different, my old pony could be quite nappy when younger but would happily reverse past the object of nappness, and once past we never had an issue in the same place twice, and we haven't had any issues for over 8 years now. I think there must be a way to explain reversing through a physical point of view, I'm not an expert on anatomy but if you think when a horse spooks or naps the head comes up, the back hollows, the hind legs dis engage and horse is using its right brain - the reactive side. By turning horse away from scary object it would give left brain a chance to start working, horse may relax a little, then reversing horse will get hind legs engaged again bringing it out of the flee posture and back into listening posture, less on the forehand and easier to manouvre

 

[risky business]

It just works.

I had a gelding that used to plant and when you told him to go forward he bucked, if you told him off for bucking he'd simply buck bigger and dump you.. If he weren't going forwards fine.. But your not just going to plant and relax here so reverse.. He soon got bored and wanted to stop and go forwards.

 

[tankgirl1]

My lad has started playing up at bring in time, a couple of circles and a bit of backing up has worked so far, have a groundwork lesson booked for next week

 

[babymare]

Different things work for different horses. Baby reared spun and bolted with previuos owner when saw anything scarey and she got battered resulting in a horse fearful of everything and anyone. before i rebacked her i spent months working her on ground. Walking her round busy yard showing her everything scarey.spending time building a relationship. in the beginning i "alllowed" her to turn away from things that scared her but with a quiet word and a stroke i turned her back to said scarey thing. i needed her to trust me. to understand i wasnt going to batter her. In time she would follow me past anything which continued when i rebacked her. out hacking if she got anxious a quiet word a stroke or even a song would calm her. Even when her sight went to half blind she still trusted me Underneath she was a very brave horse but sadly previous owner didnt think to why she started rearing etc(eyes) and just went straight for whip. Thier loss my gain