Riding lessons: how do kids progress beyond novice?

[teapot]

Firstly workload doesn't sound too bad imho.

Because of where we live we are short on options, there's possibly one other yard I could consider. We're not in horse country in the south of England! My daughter is getting lessons from a variety of people at the moment as we figure out what approach works for her, some employed by the RS, some freelance. But regardless of who is teaching the lessons are always completely tailored to her & her pony. We're gradually figuring it out. I'm particularly looking forward to a lesson next week with somebody I really respect as a horsewoman and all round lovely person who has little history with this RS or this pony and can look at things with fresh eyes.

Secondly this stands out massively to me, and my response is too many cooks can spoil the broth. I'd cut back on the range of people your daughter is being taught by, and get some consistency going. They may well be tailoring the lessons to your daughter and the pony, but they'll all be saying something slightly different. Your daughter needs one coach (maybe two in case of leave/sickness/holiday) who she likes, enjoys riding with, and has fun with - she's only months into a partnership with her first pony - consistency, structure, and support is vital. She's young and the pony is older, you don't need twenty different opinions just yet! Have you asked your daughter which lessons she has enjoyed the most? Is she looking forward to the lesson next week, or just you?

Your keeness to get things right and listening to too many opinions may well be raising issues that actually aren't there... I say that with the best will in the world having spent many a year guiding new pony owning parents through the minefield that is horse ownership. The cause of 95% of the problems I had to deal with was 'so and so said x', 'wotshername said we should be doing y' which not only unsettled the parents but also the horse/child combination in the process. The underlying peer pressure in the equestrian world is horrific and your daughter really is still on the first rung of the ladder, let her find her way to the next one with a developing relationship with a decent supportive coach

 

[Abi90]

I did music up to grade 8 too. My final
Exam, I put down the cello and NEVER picked it up again. I did it ? for my mother who loved music and lived vicariously as she never got the chance when she was a child to learn. I loathed it. I wonder how many of us there are - kids who did music but really only wanted to muck around on a pony.

I was 100% this. I was at a rehearsal every night in the week and concerts on Saturday and Sunday… sometimes two a day. I enjoyed playing but not practising. I did my grade 8 and had well and truly had enough. I sold my flute to buy a horse and I have never regretted it!

Ironically, I think music ended up taking up more time and costing more money than a pony would have in the end. I was never home before half 10 at night and my parents had to cart me all around the country and county.

 

[bonnysmum]

I was 100% this. I was at a rehearsal every night in the week and concerts on Saturday and Sunday… sometimes two a day. I enjoyed playing but not practising. I did my grade 8 and had well and truly had enough. I sold my flute to buy a horse and I have never regretted it!

Ironically, I think music ended up taking up more time and costing more money than a pony would have in the end. I was never home before half 10 at night and my parents had to cart me all around the country and county.

You sound like the young me! ? Not that horses were ever on my radar, I never knew any different from the music thing.

And yeah @teapot, I'm inclined to agree. It's finding that consistency. I think I made it sound like I was carting her around here, there & everywhere having lessons with all & sundry. It's not quite that bad honestly, just a matter of practicalities ?. Lockdowns put a spanner in the works of our original routine & even with a regular lesson slot again now we often end up with different instructors due to staff leave & it being competition season. So it's kind of not for want of trying? But I agree with you, the issue is finding that one regular coach (who teaches at a time that we can do!) and settling back into a rhythm. She is looking forward to next week, yes, as she really likes the lady & she was there when she had the first fall that really spooked her so should be able to help her a lot If my daughter enjoys the lesson I'd hope for that to be more regular.

On that note I probably have as many opinions now as I can manage! ?

 

[New2this]

I was 100% this. I was at a rehearsal every night in the week and concerts on Saturday and Sunday… sometimes two a day. I enjoyed playing but not practising. I did my grade 8 and had well and truly had enough. I sold my flute to buy a horse and I have never regretted it!

Ironically, I think music ended up taking up more time and costing more money than a pony would have in the end. I was never home before half 10 at night and my parents had to cart me all around the country and county.

Yes. This was also my experience. I My mom so much. But she claimed not to be able to afford a pony. But she could afford a ridiculously expensive 100 yr old cello, specialist teachers (technique, musicality), ferrying me here there and everywhere. I didn’t even enjoy playing. Hated competitions. The real problem is, even though I hated it, I happened to be good at it. So I felt I had a duty to do it. That and the fact my mother was so invested. And one more thing - hated everything except my regular cello teacher. Who I adored!!!!!! Still in contact. Loved lessons simply because I got to spend time w her.

I have sworn not to do this to my kid. My mom is already asking what I am going to get him into. Because he’s male ? she wants him “into” sport. Clearly not ponies. But football or swimming. I’m a little tetchy about it. We ve never talked about how I felt about all the music pressure. And she cannot understand my attitude. She says all the time- how will he learn a work ethic.

I don’t know why we do this to kids. See them as little pots of clay for us to mould. That we constantly have to be teaching them smt. They constantly have to be performing. Why can’t they jst have a bit of fun? Adult life is hard enough. Why can’t we let them have some fun w no expectations while they are young.

Not levelled at OP. There’s a massive difference between pushing a disinterested child in a hobby and learning about a loved hobby to help child get most out of it.

 

[Kat]

I think the lesson with someone entirely detached from the riding school is a good thing. It will be beneficial to get an opinion from someone that isn't coloured by the pony's history.

I don't think the pony's workload sounds bad but the advice remains that you can cut this back if you aren't sure it is beneficial to your daughter or your pony. Be careful about stopping it entirely while the pony is being a bit of a handful and worrying your daughter.

Do look into local pony club branches. It would really help you and your daughter to make some horsey contacts away from the riding school. The tuition should be structured for children with their own ponies to progress while having fun.

It might be worth you signing up for something like the BHS horse owners certificate to improve your knowledge and confidence in managing the pony even if you have no desire to ride.

 

[bonnysmum]

Yes. This was also my experience. I My mom so much. But she claimed not to be able to afford a pony. But she could afford a ridiculously expensive 100 yr old cello, specialist teachers (technique, musicality), ferrying me here there and everywhere. I didn’t even enjoy playing. Hated competitions. The real problem is, even though I hated it, I happened to be good at it. So I felt I had a duty to do it. That and the fact my mother was so invested. And one more thing - hated everything except my regular cello teacher. Who I adored!!!!!! Still in contact. Loved lessons simply because I got to spend time w her.

I have sworn not to do this to my kid. My mom is already asking what I am going to get him into. Because he’s male ? she wants him “into” sport. Clearly not ponies. But football or swimming. I’m a little tetchy about it. We ve never talked about how I felt about all the music pressure. And she cannot understand my attitude. She says all the time- how will he learn a work ethic.

I don’t know why we do this to kids. See them as little pots of clay for us to mould. That we constantly have to be teaching them smt. They constantly have to be performing. Why can’t they jst have a bit of fun? Adult life is hard enough. Why can’t we let them have some fun w no expectations while they are young.

Not levelled at OP. There’s a massive difference between pushing a disinterested child in a hobby and learning about a loved hobby to help child get most out of it.

Could not agree with this post more, this was also my life! Pressured into music & academic performance to the point I didn't find the real "me" until after I got married and had kids of my own!

So no, that will not be happening to my children. They have been allowed to find their own way and develop their own interests in which my husband & I are now trying to support them as much as we can. And there have been some curveballs that I never saw coming, of which becoming a horse owner is just one! ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Lots to cover. Firstly this one:



I'm horrified to read that, couldn't be further from the truth. I'm simply trying to deal with my own gut feelings about what's right versus conflicting advice from so many different people (opinions offered here mirror the range of what I hear in real life). I want my daughter to enjoy looking after her pony and learn what she wants to learn at her own pace, end of story. But I don't want the pony getting so fresh and sparky that she terrifies my daughter into never wanting to ride again. Nor do I want to have taken on responsibility for an animal and end up doing it harm by ignoring what people with more experience are telling me. Nothing more to it than that I assure you.

That is great to hear. Honestly if the pony was suitable for your daughter to ride when she was owned by the RS, so long as she isn't being over-fed on sugary/starchy feeds to give her more energy than she needs (or alfalfa which some ponies can't tolerate), and is turned out 24/7, she will be fine for your daughter to ride and look after as her first pony without all the input from the RS staff, who appear to be still looking at *your* pony as one of theirs.
Very few ponies that are suitable as first ponies will become too unruly for their owner to manage, so long as there is a knowledgeable adult in the background. I know that isn't you but it could easily be an instructor or a livery yard owner. Truly if the pony needs all this extra input from more experienced riders than your daughter the RS should not have sold her to you, as being suitable for a novice. And please, riding 'on a contact' or being 'on the bit' is not the be all and end all of good riding, whatever the RS staff are telling you. Above all else your daughter's hobby should be fun for her and her pony.

 

[New2this]

Could not agree with this post more, this was also my life! Pressured into music & academic performance to the point I didn't find the real "me" until after I got married and had kids of my own!

So no, that will not be happening to my children. They have been allowed to find their own way and develop their own interests in which my husband & I are now trying to support them as much as we can. And there have been some curveballs that I never saw coming, of which becoming a horse owner is just one! ?

O my gosh- yes! The trying to find myself. I don’t want to come across as mother bashing. My mom is my best friend. And she gave us all so so so much. But she had lived in abject poverty as a child herself. And this made her “want the best” for us in a way that was all about attainment (attaining at competitions, exam results etc). She genuinely couldn’t see a point in having a pony. It wouldn’t get me a scholarship to anything. It would just be for fun.

This has twisted something in me. For years (most of my life) I ve been living as if I constantly have to attain something. Nothing is done just because I enjoy doing it. Until I hit 40 and realised half my life was spent doing this. I bought myself a horse that day.

 

[Lexi_]

OP, just to circle back to some of the earlier points being discussed about top line… having read some of your subsequent posts about workload etc which have gone into a bit more detail, I’d be really surprised if your daughter riding her a couple of times a week is causing that, even if she is a bit novicey. I assumed at the start that there had been a move from full RS workload to private ownership but it sounds like the pony has a decent ongoing workload and is being ridden by ok riders (presumably just not doing quite as many hours a week as before being sold?). Might be an idea to get the Cushings test and some checks done.

 

[ycbm]

BM, one thing I don't think we've mentioned so far is that the pony might, far from needing more work to keep her steady for your daughter, be too fit. Fitter horses, in my own experience, tend to be sharper than less fit ones. As long as the food is scaled back, it might be in the interests of your daughter and your pony for her to do a lot less work. It's likely to give her a longer working life as well.

Do be aware though, that from what you are saying there may be vested interests in the riding school "proving" that this approach won't work, and too much food and/or too little turnout would probably achieve that.

If I add up all the indications you've given in the course of the thread, it's going to be very difficult to get where you want to be with the pony in working livery, and maybe even if she stays at that riding school.
.

 

[paddy555]

Could not agree with this post more, this was also my life! Pressured into music & academic performance to the point I didn't find the real "me" until after I got married and had kids of my own!

haven't had time to read the recent posts yet but (minus the kids) are you me?????

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

BM, one thing I don't think we've mentioned so far is that the pony might, far from needing more work to keep her steady for your daughter, be too fit. Fitter horses, in my own experience, tend to be sharper than less fit ones. As long as the food is scaled back, it might be in the interests of your daughter and your pony for her to do a lot less work. It's likely to give her a longer working life as well.

Do be aware though, that from what you are saying there may be vested interests in the riding school "proving" that this approach won't work, and too much food and/or too little turnout would probably achieve that.

If I add up all the indications you've given in the course of the thread, it's going to be very difficult to get where you want to be with the pony in working livery, and maybe even if she stays at that riding school.
.

This, exactly.
If you are able to tell us more about where you are, posters may be able to help you to find an alternative, more suitable yard for yout daughter's 1st pony.

 

[Gloi]

OP have you thought about what will happen with the pony in winter yet? Hopefully she is mainly out and eating grass at the moment but how much turnout will she get when the weather changes for the worse.
As a Welsh cob she should be capable of living out as much as possible in the winter but depending on your yard you my find her amount of turnout is cut back and this may make her more fresh.
Were you at the school last winter to see how she behaves when she is inside more? This might determine how often you will need other people to ride her. It may be that she will need the extra exercise during the winter but in spring you could change to just your daughter riding her.

 

[bonnysmum]

OP have you thought about what will happen with the pony in winter yet? Hopefully she is mainly out and eating grass at the moment but how much turnout will she get when the weather changes for the worse.
As a Welsh cob she should be capable of living out as much as possible in the winter but depending on your yard you my find her amount of turnout is cut back and this may make her more fresh.
Were you at the school last winter to see how she behaves when she is inside more? This might determine how often you will need other people to ride her. It may be that she will need the extra exercise during the winter but in spring you could change to just your daughter riding her.

She is clipped, rugged & lives out all year. She really dislikes being in a stable!

 

[bonnysmum]

This, exactly.
If you are able to tell us more about where you are, posters may be able to help you to find an alternative, more suitable yard for yout daughter's 1st pony.

I wish I could @Pearlsasinger but I really don't want to because it would almost certainly out me to anyone following this thread who lives in the area. And I don't want to cause any offence! I have taken quite a lot of tips away from this thread though and I think I've identified where the particular problem lies at this yard. That will influence my decisions from now on, and then if we're still having issues I'll think again about moving her. It's always been on the cards anyway but I wanted to really get to know the pony first before upending everything else. I do really like my fellow liveries though and my daughter's made some brilliant friends, that's the thing, but I'm pretty sure at some point soon the pony will be better off with a fresh start in a new environment.

 

[bonnysmum]

Do look into local pony club branches. It would really help you and your daughter to make some horsey contacts away from the riding school. The tuition should be structured for children with their own ponies to progress while having fun.

Yeah I think someone asked me this before, but we have centre membership of PC not branch membership, so my daughter only does PC activities at this centre - one coach, strong links to the RS. It seems to be another minefield, but my understanding was that to join the actual branch we need to be able to transport the pony around and we don't have that facility at the moment. Online information about the branch is absolutely dire incidentally!

 

[paddy555]

I did music up to grade 8 too. My final
Exam, I put down the cello and NEVER picked it up again. I did it ? for my mother who loved music and lived vicariously as she never got the chance when she was a child to learn. I loathed it. I wonder how many of us there are - kids who did music but really only wanted to muck around on a pony.

quite a few I suspect

 

[Dasher66]

quite a few I suspect

I was so bad at music that my mum didnt even try to make me go to the piano teacher my brothers were forced to attend each week.
I had riding lessons instead.

 

[paddy555]

Nothing is done just because I enjoy doing it. Until I hit 40 and realised half my life was spent doing this. I bought myself a horse that day.

Gosh, you hit 40. I managed to hit 18. Had a summer job at a riding centre. Had enough to buy half a horse and new BF had enough to buy the other half. So I went off for the summer with no horse and no BF and came home a couple of months later with a horse and future husband. That certainly put learning music into perspective for my parents.

 

[Abi90]

Yes. This was also my experience. I My mom so much. But she claimed not to be able to afford a pony. But she could afford a ridiculously expensive 100 yr old cello, specialist teachers (technique, musicality), ferrying me here there and everywhere. I didn’t even enjoy playing. Hated competitions. The real problem is, even though I hated it, I happened to be good at it. So I felt I had a duty to do it. That and the fact my mother was so invested. And one more thing - hated everything except my regular cello teacher. Who I adored!!!!!! Still in contact. Loved lessons simply because I got to spend time w her.

I have sworn not to do this to my kid. My mom is already asking what I am going to get him into. Because he’s male ? she wants him “into” sport. Clearly not ponies. But football or swimming. I’m a little tetchy about it. We ve never talked about how I felt about all the music pressure. And she cannot understand my attitude. She says all the time- how will he learn a work ethic.

I don’t know why we do this to kids. See them as little pots of clay for us to mould. That we constantly have to be teaching them smt. They constantly have to be performing. Why can’t they jst have a bit of fun? Adult life is hard enough. Why can’t we let them have some fun w no expectations while they are young.

Not levelled at OP. There’s a massive difference between pushing a disinterested child in a hobby and learning about a loved hobby to help child get most out of it.

My flute cost twice as much as a kids pony! And I’m pretty sure all the lessons and rehearsals cost more than a pony on DIY at the yard I could have cycled to

 

[Palindrome]

Sorry, not trying to be difficult, but why? Surely for a beginner, who is not capable of riding with contact, horses can be found who can be ridden without contact? Surely there is no point in the horse being on the bit if it is achieved by such contraption, or am I missing something?

There is usually about 10-15 riders in a group lessons so 10 to 15 horses being ridden at the same time. The vet, physio or riding instructor would sometimes want the horse to go on the bit instead of going hollow like a giraffe to preserve's the horse's back for example. If the rider is not able to do so, a de gogue can be useful.
It's not like draw reins where you can pull on them or misuse them, once it is put on the right setting the rider can't change that so it is a bit similar to side reins. It's not safe to ride with side reins on so the de gogue is a good compromise. Horses for courses, I don't use any training aids on my own horses and ride in a simple snaffle but sometimes a training aid may be needed or useful. When I have ridden polo I have ridden with the polo horse tack even though I don't necessarily agree with everything. Same at the riding school, I was told to use certain pieces of tack like a martingale or de gogue for certain horses.

 

[Gloi]

The vet, physio or riding instructor would sometimes want the horse to go on the bit instead of going hollow like a giraffe

it is unlikely to be on the bit though. It just has had its head put in a different place.

 

[Palindrome]

it is unlikely to be on the bit though. It just has had its head put in a different place.

Interesting, so a horse being lunged with one line can never be on the bit?
I think it can we the use of side reins and appropriate exercises.

ETA: I am not taking about an untrained horse like a youngster, I am talking about a riding school horse who has been trained properly and knows how to go on the bit but the rider can't make them do it.

 

[teapot]

Interesting, so a horse being lunged with one line can never be on the bit?
I think it can we the use of side reins and appropriate exercises.

ETA: I am not taking about an untrained horse like a youngster, I am talking about a riding school horse who has been trained properly and knows how to go on the bit but the rider can't make them do it.

I think Gloi's point is that a horse in a de gogue can still be working incorrectly as it can create a false outline. A horse is never truly working correctly unless up and over its back from behind. A far cry from shoving a rs pony in one so it can 'work on the bit'. Also, the horse has no where to go if it panics, another reason why they'd be a bad idea to use in rs lessons with inexperienced riders if something was to happen.

 

[ycbm]

There is usually about 10-15 riders in a group lessons

Is that normal for France? It isn't normal for any place I've ever ridden, even some pretty poor quality ones when I was younger. Personally, I wouldn't accept learning to ride in a group of 10, myself, never mind a child or a group of 15.
.

 

[Palindrome]

Is that normal for France? It isn't normal for any place I've ever ridden, even some pretty poor quality ones when I was younger. Personally, I wouldn't accept learning to ride in a group of 10, myself, never mind a child or a group of 15.
.

It depends whether you are in a very populated area or not but yes it is quite normal. The school is probably at least 3 or 4 times the size of a regular UK arena though.
I can never understand turning up to a lesson and having your horse brushed and tacked up for you in advance but that's a done thing in the UK. Things are just different in different places. Here riding schools are fairly popular because few children have their own pony.

 

[Palindrome]

I think Gloi's point is that a horse in a de gogue can still be working incorrectly as it can create a false outline. A horse is never truly working correctly unless up and over its back from behind. A far cry from shoving a rs pony in one so it can 'work on the bit'. Also, the horse has no where to go if it panics, another reason why they'd be a bad idea to use in rs lessons with inexperienced riders if something was to happen.

The rider can also create a false outline, that doesn't reply to my question about lunging.
The horse has nowhere to go in a standing martingale or in side reins either, do you think they should be banned?

I am not going to go on and on about it though, I have merely suggested using it, nowhere did I say the horse had to be "shoved" in it.

 

[teapot]

The rider can also create a false outline, that doesn't reply to my question about lunging.
The horse has nowhere to go in a standing martingale or in side reins either, do you think they should be banned?

I am not going to go on and on about it though, I have merely suggested using it, nowhere did I say the horse had to be "shoved" in it.

I didn't say they should be banned, just massively unsuitable for inexperienced rs clients to ride in...

 

[Gloi]

Not a good thing either to teach novice riders that a horse is on the bit because its head has been fastened into a particular place rather than by working from behind correctly.