Rip Amy winehouse

I hate to say but my so called blinkered view in this instance is rather clear, I am not unsullied myself when it comes to addiction or drugs, I was a smoker and I chose to give that up, yes I relapsedbut now 9 years on I am proud to say I am a non smoker.

You do not know me or my lifes issues, I have had more than my share of 'curveballs' as you call it. Having watched people suffer with addiction in various substances and having my life pulled apart when a close family memebr comitted suicide whilst trying to battle addictions AND watch much loved friends deal with others addictions i have to say you know nothing about me or my life.

So maybe you should add that to your wishings of my lifes 'curveballs'
 
I didn't wish for life to throw you a curved ball, quite the opposite.

It is a subject that clearly polarizes opinion. Some people experience a life event that causes them to investigate and try and understand, others may experience the same event and it will cause them to revert to their own particular battle line.

So it really boils down to the fact that everyone and every circumstance is different. This is why its not possible to make blanket statements such as 'addiction is a choice'.

I respect your opinion, I may not agree with it, but I respect that its yours :)
 
gugglebum said:
I didn't wish for life to throw you a curved ball, quite the opposite.

It is a subject that clearly polarizes opinion. Some people experience a life event that causes them to investigate and try and understand, others may experience the same event and it will cause them to revert to their own particular battle line.

So it really boils down to the fact that everyone and every circumstance is different. This is why its not possible to make blanket statements such as 'addiction is a choice'.

I respect your opinion, I may not agree with it, but I respect that its yours :)
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Thanks.

I just adhere to the opinion that people are responsible for their actions and we should all be held accountable for the choces we make.

I just wonder what the world would be like had we not got these substances amongs us.
 
Trinity Fox said:
When people have an addiction it is not a choice they make it is something beyond their control, and as far down the spiral as she was having a hit would not have been for recreation or pleasure probably just to feel normal.

It was commented above would we feel the same for the wino in the street and yes i would, people end up in these situations for various reasons some cant cope with life some suffer from depression mental illness or a trauma in their life to live this kind of tortured half life needing the next hit is a terrible life.

The people who push drugs are the villians as they prey on weak fragile people,lots who are taking drugs do so just to forget, you never know what is going on in someones head or how they feel some people just cant cope.

What happened in Norway is truly a tradgedy and my heart goes out to all the families but it is still very sad that a talented young girl who seemed to have all the help she could need at hand could still not find a way out, that should show how lost she was and for her to die this way is terribly tragic and a sad end to such a chaotic life.
I also think it is wrong to compare the two events both are very different and terrible for all involved and i cant imagine how any of the families are feeling.
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I agree, people are so quick to be cruel and comment on 'she could have changed' or 'nothing but a wino. NON of us can know how it feels to be in such a bad place and some are stronger than others.
As regards to it over shadowing Norway, I think that fact that 'artists' reveal so much about themselves that we think we somehow know them, so, we are saddened by their tragic deaths. I will say it again- all the greats die at 27. Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin, Cobain and now Winehouse- rest in peace. They can all now make great music together
 
Crikey - I need to listen to the news more! Shocked and saddened to only just now read this on here!

Wonderfully talented woman - yet again drink and drugs takes the gifted. Such a shame. Seems to happen over and over that the top musicians and actors are taken far too early in their careers.

Is it the money, stresses of fame, "artistic" personalities, the circle they are moving in or a combination of all??
 
Always sad when anyone dies but the difference in this woman dying and other junkies dying is that she had £10million in the bank, had rehab at various places and still chose to continue mixing with her junkie friends and carried on the lifestyle that killed her.
Now we will have rent-a-mourners laying ten ton of flowers, so called friends making a bundle out of selling their heartbreaking stories.
Hardly front page news when so many in Norway have died in horrific ways, begging for their lives, at the hands of a loonapot.
 
Yes it was an addiction and hard to get rid of, but are we as compassionate to the drug addicts that rob us, or burgle our houses to feed there addiction, or drink/drug drivers who have had collisions with horses, would you then decide it was an addiction and feel sorry for them? Or give them a lesser sentence because of course an addiction is hard to break? I think not.
 
NiknKia said:
I have to say people KNOW when they take a drug ITS A DRUG!! They CHOOSE to take it and from someone who has had to deal with a family member (several infact but not as close) WITH a TEMINAL illness they DIDNT choose I am disgusted that you can compare such things.

peopl choose to take coke, heroin, cannabis, crack, ecstacy you name a highl addictive drug of choice. There is NO ignorance about it, no-one can claim they didnt know what the results would be when they took it.

So Im afraid most of the above seems to me like the cop outs used by those who use others to get what they need.
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Couldnt have put it better myself. Everyone knows what drugs do you these days, so why take them in the first place? You know if you start down that road what the outcome will be!
 
gugglebum said:
You've massively over simplified the issue in order to suit your needs and your argument. Or maybe it's because you have a real lack of knowledge or experience regarding the subject.

I fear you will retain your blinkered view until the point at which life chooses to throw you a curved ball and you're forced to study the subject in greater depth & breadth. I sincerely hope this doesn't happen to you, but you never know...
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This comes across as so so rude and insulting!

I worked for a woman that ran one of those drug rehab homes in Italy. It was at a time when my brother was driving us crazy with his drug habit. The lady who ran the home (sounds very like the scheme that you mention in SB) was very like you in her arguements - had no understanding that its not just the addicts that are the victims and thought that all addics were helpless and ill. In her own way, the woman wrecked her own family and marriage while I au paired for her - she too had that attitude that she knew more than everyone else and was pretty condescending. A large percentage of the inmates at her house (and they were inmates as they had the choice of jail or a rehab centre) were repeat offenders.

Not every drug addict is suffering inside when they first take the drugs that they get addicted to. Most that I have known were party animals just gettng high. Being part of the in crowd was a major factor. What links most of the ones I knew that got addicted was a total lack of care or responsibility. They didn't care that it hurt those around them etc. I'd put the people that I know, including my brother in that catagory, and also Amy Winehouse. They have had many attempts to help them and done all in their power to avoid it - heck AW even wrote a song about it! I actually have more sympathy for the winos on the street who have nowhere else to go.

There are some addicts that do get my sympathy - those born or forced into it, but many many of them are not in this catagory. To treat all of them with kid gloves and sympathy does not solve the situation. I hightly suspected that half of the inmates at that centre in Italy were playing on the illness angle. They're cunning and quick when they need to be.

Many of the people on these threads who haven't got sympathy for AW and other drug addicts are those that have live through the hell of having a friend or family that has dragged them through the hell and back of addiction. Its really low to suggest that those people are ignorant, uninformed or nasty, because most of us who have been through this have done EVERYTHING possible to try and solve/understand the situation.

Many of us have had curve balls in life and not gone down the route of addiction. Its insulting to assume that all people that haven't had a drug problem haven't had a big enough issue in their life to cause it. I've had many lows in my life and managed to fight out of them eventually, and not always easily. Living through the hell of living with a drug addict lying, cheating and hurting your parents was one of them.

My friend dying of cancer was a tragedy. Norway was a tragedy. Sorry this post is a bit rambling, but there are a lot of holier than thou attitudes around that I'm finding insulting, and this subject is pretty close to the bone, and has been for 20 years!

ps. GB this seems a bit directed at you personally, its not, just the things that you said rattled a cage...
 
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Honey08 said:
This comes across as so so rude and insulting!

I worked for a woman that ran one of those drug rehab homes in Italy. It was at a time when my brother was driving us crazy with his drug habit. The lady who ran the home (sounds very like the scheme that you mention in SB) was very like you in her arguements - had no understanding that its not just the addicts that are the victims and thought that all addics were helpless and ill. In her own way, the woman wrecked her own family and marriage while I au paired for her - she too had that attitude that she knew more than everyone else and was pretty condescending. A large percentage of the inmates at her house (and they were inmates as they had the choice of jail or a rehab centre) were repeat offenders.

Not every drug addict is suffering inside when they first take the drugs that they get addicted to. Most that I have known were party animals just gettng high. Being part of the in crowd was a major factor. What links most of the ones I knew that got addicted was a total lack of care or responsibility. They didn't care that it hurt those around them etc. I'd put the people that I know, including my brother in that catagory, and also Amy Winehouse. They have had many attempts to help them and done all in their power to avoid it - heck AW even wrote a song about it! I actually have more sympathy for the winos on the street who have nowhere else to go.

There are some addicts that do get my sympathy - those born or forced into it, but many many of them are not in this catagory. To treat all of them with kid gloves and sympathy does not solve the situation. I hightly suspected that half of the inmates at that centre in Italy were playing on the illness angle. They're cunning and quick when they need to be.

Many of the people on these threads who haven't got sympathy for AW and other drug addicts are those that have live through the hell of having a friend or family that has dragged them through the hell and back of addiction. Its really low to suggest that those people are ignorant, uninformed or nasty, because most of us who have been through this have done EVERYTHING possible to try and solve/understand the situation.

Many of us have had curve balls in life and not gone down the route of addiction. Its insulting to assume that all people that haven't had a drug problem haven't had a big enough issue in their life to cause it. I've had many lows in my life and managed to fight out of them eventually, and not always easily. Living through the hell of living with a drug addict lying, cheating and hurting your parents was one of them.

My friend dying of cancer was a tragedy. Norway was a tragedy. Sorry this post is a bit rambling, but there are a lot of holier than thou attitudes around that I'm finding insulting, and this subject is pretty close to the bone, and has been for 20 years!

ps. GB this seems a bit directed at you personally, its not, just the things that you said rattled a cage...
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Thank you for posting this Honey, very well put :)
 
bugbee717 said:
Hell no a child dying in a car accident, been there done that, a person dying of cancer is tragic, a person dying at the hands of someone else is tragic, a stupid bint that can't say no is not tragic. It is stupid and very selfish.
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What a vile and ignorant statement. :(

Sympathy and compassion are not finite. Well, not for those capable of such emotions, who also keep an open mind and heart.
 
Honey08 said:
This comes across as so so rude and insulting!

I worked for a woman that ran one of those drug rehab homes in Italy. It was at a time when my brother was driving us crazy with his drug habit. The lady who ran the home (sounds very like the scheme that you mention in SB) was very like you in her arguements - had no understanding that its not just the addicts that are the victims and thought that all addics were helpless and ill. In her own way, the woman wrecked her own family and marriage while I au paired for her - she too had that attitude that she knew more than everyone else and was pretty condescending. A large percentage of the inmates at her house (and they were inmates as they had the choice of jail or a rehab centre) were repeat offenders.

Not every drug addict is suffering inside when they first take the drugs that they get addicted to. Most that I have known were party animals just gettng high. Being part of the in crowd was a major factor. What links most of the ones I knew that got addicted was a total lack of care or responsibility. They didn't care that it hurt those around them etc. I'd put the people that I know, including my brother in that catagory, and also Amy Winehouse. They have had many attempts to help them and done all in their power to avoid it - heck AW even wrote a song about it! I actually have more sympathy for the winos on the street who have nowhere else to go.

There are some addicts that do get my sympathy - those born or forced into it, but many many of them are not in this catagory. To treat all of them with kid gloves and sympathy does not solve the situation. I hightly suspected that half of the inmates at that centre in Italy were playing on the illness angle. They're cunning and quick when they need to be.

Many of the people on these threads who haven't got sympathy for AW and other drug addicts are those that have live through the hell of having a friend or family that has dragged them through the hell and back of addiction. Its really low to suggest that those people are ignorant, uninformed or nasty, because most of us who have been through this have done EVERYTHING possible to try and solve/understand the situation.

Many of us have had curve balls in life and not gone down the route of addiction. Its insulting to assume that all people that haven't had a drug problem haven't had a big enough issue in their life to cause it. I've had many lows in my life and managed to fight out of them eventually, and not always easily. Living through the hell of living with a drug addict lying, cheating and hurting your parents was one of them.

My friend dying of cancer was a tragedy. Norway was a tragedy. Sorry this post is a bit rambling, but there are a lot of holier than thou attitudes around that I'm finding insulting, and this subject is pretty close to the bone, and has been for 20 years!

ps. GB this seems a bit directed at you personally, its not, just the things that you said rattled a cage...
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Amen to that Honey.:) Bloody well put
 
Norway is a different kettle of fish, they didn't have a choice! Now that is really tragic so many young people at the start of their lives and so many families destroyed by one mad man.

Amy dying, yeah so what! Was bound to happen to her sooner or later, or was she such an 'good' example that all is forgiven and forgotten. She did it to herself and she did have a choice. She choose to take the drugs in the first place and started the addiction. No sympathy for her or her hangers on. I do feel sorry for her family who are left to deal with the aftermath.
She was a waste of space, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to that.
 
Honey08 said:
This comes across as so so rude and insulting!
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I didn't intend to be rude, or insulting, so i apologise if I did. I believe the person I aimed it at and I have established a mutual respect.

I worked for a woman that ran one of those drug rehab homes in Italy. It was at a time when my brother was driving us crazy with his drug habit. The lady who ran the home (sounds very like the scheme that you mention in SB) was very like you in her arguements - had no understanding that its not just the addicts that are the victims and thought that all addics were helpless and ill. In her own way, the woman wrecked her own family and marriage while I au paired for her - she too had that attitude that she knew more than everyone else and was pretty condescending. A large percentage of the inmates at her house (and they were inmates as they had the choice of jail or a rehab centre) were repeat offenders.
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I can tell immediately from your post that this is not the scheme I was referring to. No one 'runs' these houses, they are all led by recovered addicts who have been through this 'school of life', who are under no illusions who are the victims, and how much their families have suffered. It's through this unique perspective that they are able to help others. A big part of it is recognising and admitting the awful things they have done & the pain they have caused - there's nowhere to run or hide from the past, something addicts are very good at.

They have few personal posessions, certainly no au pairs. The young people in there are not inmates in any sense, they are free to leave when ever they want.

Not every drug addict is suffering inside when they first take the drugs that they get addicted to. Most that I have known were party animals just gettng high. Being part of the in crowd was a major factor. What links most of the ones I knew that got addicted was a total lack of care or responsibility.
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So what about factors you're unaware of that may cause someone to be a party animal & fall in with the wrong crowd. Seeking attention? Acceptance? Love? Happiness? Lack of a stable home life? What if their parents never taught them care & responsibility?

They didn't care that it hurt those around them etc. I'd put the people that I know, including my brother in that catagory, and also Amy Winehouse. They have had many attempts to help them and done all in their power to avoid it - heck AW even wrote a song about it! I actually have more sympathy for the winos on the street who have nowhere else to go.
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If they're past caring how much they hurt themselves, how can they care how much they hurt others? Well actually a lot of them do care a great deal, and its this self disgust and hatred that makes them use more - it's easier to dull the pain then face up to it. They need help to do this.

There are some addicts that do get my sympathy - those born or forced into it, but many many of them are not in this catagory. To treat all of them with kid gloves and sympathy does not solve the situation. I hightly suspected that half of the inmates at that centre in Italy were playing on the illness angle. They're cunning and quick when they need to be.
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The centres aren't just in Italy, they are now all over the world. There's one for young men in the Lake District, and one in Knock, Ireland. The young people are circulated between different houses all over the world at a moments notice - it's part of them handing over control and facing the challenges of being out of their comfort zone - something addicts aren't good at. Again, they are not inmates. There are no kid gloves or sympathy - there are no 'illness angles' to be played. It's about living in the real world, with real people and all the ups and downs that entails, and learning to cope as you or I do, without drugs. but when you'rve been using for 15 years this is easier said than done. These young people need to learn virtually everything from scratch, not just practical life skills but inter personal skills. But yes of course they can be cunning & quick - you have to be when you're an addict.

Many of the people on these threads who haven't got sympathy for AW and other drug addicts are those that have live through the hell of having a friend or family that has dragged them through the hell and back of addiction. Its really low to suggest that those people are ignorant, uninformed or nasty, because most of us who have been through this have done EVERYTHING possible to try and solve/understand the situation.
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None of us know anyone elses personal experiences. Having a family member or loved one who's an addict doesn't necessarily mean one is aware or informed of all angles, in some cases quite the opposite, through no fault of ones own. It could be argued that personal involvement & suffering causes a lack of impartiality and a biased perspective. Neither addicts or their families receive the support they should in this country.

ps. GB this seems a bit directed at you personally, its not, just the things that you said rattled a cage..
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Appreciated :)
 
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I only found out today too. I think she was extremely talented. Although I don't feel saddened by the news, I do feel for her family and especially her father.
 
micramadam said:
Amy dying, yeah so what!
She was a waste of space, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to that.
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Yes you are certainly entitled to your opinion - and I actually feel quite sorry for you - so lacking in empathy and humanity as to be able to say that about a young woman.
I find some of the opinions on here quite chilling.
 
There are some vile and horrible statements on this thread. Being a serious 'lurker' i have been aware for a while of the b*tchy attitude employed by many on H&H, but i'm appalled at the callous things being said here. How can one persons death possible be compared to another?! ANYONE who has had ANY experience with someone going through the torture and hell that drugs entail could not possibly condemn what happened to Amy and say 'she bought it on herself'. I'm 100% sure her family is not sitting down tonight and saying 'well, we really should be thankful, Norway was a REAL tragady and Amy had it coming.'
For God sake, grow up. Have some respect and pray you never, ever go through what her parents will be going through. Whatever the situation and circumstances, someone tearing their life apart and destroying themselves is, in my eyes, simply awful.
 
Totally agree with you. To lose a child in any circumstances whatever the age is tragic for any parent to deal with. Any death to me is certainly sad.
 
My cousin is fighting in Afghanistan , dies he's feel this way about a young girl dying.... No

How many of you have had a l
Glass of wine? ....,., I agree that it was ultimately her choice, but if your first glass of wine mad you want 8 bottles a day would you have asked for that ?

Some people are so unhappy that any little thing to make them feel better helps :(

Not right but I do not judge
 
georgie0 said:
There are some vile and horrible statements on this thread. Being a serious 'lurker' i have been aware for a while of the b*tchy attitude employed by many on H&H, but i'm appalled at the callous things being said here. How can one persons death possible be compared to another?! ANYONE who has had ANY experience with someone going through the torture and hell that drugs entail could not possibly condemn what happened to Amy and say 'she bought it on herself'. I'm 100% sure her family is not sitting down tonight and saying 'well, we really should be thankful, Norway was a REAL tragady and Amy had it coming.'
For God sake, grow up. Have some respect and pray you never, ever go through what her parents will be going through. Whatever the situation and circumstances, someone tearing their life apart and destroying themselves is, in my eyes, simply awful.
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Poppycock. Maybe if her poor parents had given her abit of tough love then she may have been still walking around today. Didn't Britneys father take complete control of her finances and drugs etc.. and she managed to turn her life around.
Amys mother gave an interview last year saying it would be no suprise if she was found dead, well she was obviously trying her utmost to keep her daughter on the straight and narrow wasn't she! They must have known she was back dabbling as she was a wreck this week when seen out.. what did her father do... he flew off to America to play in a music festival...
 
Daisydo said:
I don't think that addiction is a choice, deppresion has a big part to play, so famous or not, she would have found an escape ( almost certainly distructive) to fill an empty void, and yes I speak from experience.

I feel sorry for her family especially her father who apparently was on a flight when the news broke and had no idea what had happened, to let it out to the public before her family had been told is cruel.

Again though her death is no more heart breaking than any one else that lost a loved one today or any day xxx
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I totally agree with you Daisydo. So many cold heartless people on here :( Its so easy to spout off 'it was his/her choice' and feel smug when it doesn't affect you personally. Addictions are not sought nor are they a pleasure to have AND I speak from first hand experience.
As for Amy versus Norway: I didn't know anyone who died in Norway, I didn't know any names or faces. I did know who Amy Winehouse was, I did know her face and I did know something about her, so while Im shocked re the senseless deaths of the people in Norway, Im more removed from it than that of Amy's death. Sadly. when many people die they become statistics, when one person dies its a tragedy. RIP to Amy and to those in Norway.
 
Oh for goodness sake, what is the point of faceless people having a fight about AW on a horse forum.

It's sad. It happens. Poor girl obviously felt it was the only way to live life, probably didn't mean to kill herself but drugs claim many lives.

I could not compare this to Norway, Starving Africans or a Train Crash. It's just another overdose. You can't compare.

It IS sad that such a talented young lady wasted her life like but death happens. This time it was her own doing. It's not worth making yourselves enemies here about it!!!

C'mon guys. Please stop arguing.
 
JosieB said:
Poppycock. Maybe if her poor parents had given her abit of tough love then she may have been still walking around today. Didn't Britneys father take complete control of her finances and drugs etc.. and she managed to turn her life around.
Amys mother gave an interview last year saying it would be no suprise if she was found dead, well she was obviously trying her utmost to keep her daughter on the straight and narrow wasn't she! They must have known she was back dabbling as she was a wreck this week when seen out.. what did her father do... he flew off to America to play in a music festival...
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Good grief - you do not know her parents, you have no contact with them and yet you feel quite entitled to have a public go at them for their lack of parenting skills! How about a little humanity? and thoughts for the family who will be grieving? Yes she had help, yes she had people who wanted to support her but we (you) were not in her shoes, we don't know what she felt/why she did it. In the cold light of day I am quite sure she would not have "chosen" this path. Her addiction gripped her and ultimately destroyed her. If you knew anyone who had some sort of "mental" or "addiction" issues, you might be a little more forgiving. Its not as simple as toughening up or giving up these things.

And actually - I don't compare Norway with Amy at all and I would suggest most of you missed the news this morning - which was heavily focused on the atrocity in Norway..

Save your vitriol for the norweigian murderer, who chose to shoot wounded victims in the head, dressed as a policeman, shoot those trying to swim to safety, did NOT shoot at the policeman who arrested him... and then says via his lawyer that "it was necessary"..and basically we can wait with baited breath for his speech now having made himself the most gruesome platform on nearly 100 innocent victims bodies.
 
Luci07 said:
Good grief - you do not know her parents, you have no contact with them and yet you feel quite entitled to have a public go at them for their lack of parenting skills! How about a little humanity? and thoughts for the family who will be grieving? Yes she had help, yes she had people who wanted to support her but we (you) were not in her shoes, we don't know what she felt/why she did it. In the cold light of day I am quite sure she would not have "chosen" this path. Her addiction gripped her and ultimately destroyed her. If you knew anyone who had some sort of "mental" or "addiction" issues, you might be a little more forgiving. Its not as simple as toughening up or giving up these things.

And actually - I don't compare Norway with Amy at all and I would suggest most of you missed the news this morning - which was heavily focused on the atrocity in Norway..

Save your vitriol for the norweigian murderer, who chose to shoot wounded victims in the head, dressed as a policeman, shoot those trying to swim to safety, did NOT shoot at the policeman who arrested him... and then says via his lawyer that "it was necessary"..and basically we can wait with baited breath for his speech now having made himself the most gruesome platform on nearly 100 innocent victims bodies.
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Clam down luvvy - I can almost feel your blood pressure shooting up past boiling pojnt!!!
 
I only hope that the drug taking friends and folk that Amy mixed with have learnt a very sad but valuable life changing lesson for them.

RIP
 
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