RIP Fox Hunt

SusannaF said:
Apologies if anyone posted this further up-thread, but who saw this New York Times exposé on drug use and fatalities in US horse racing?


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/u...acks.html?scp=1&sq=maimed horse racing&st=cse
Click to expand...

That makes for very uncomfortable reading, but thanks for posting.

Is this the reason why we appear (no research by me) to be experiencing a higher number of breakdowns and fractures in this country? or the failures with the breeding lines? or both?
 
Since we have been mentioning breeding & its relation to injuries I post a link to Neptune Collonges pedigree because it is an interesting one:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=neptune+collognes&x=18&y=13
His dam is a Selle Francias & if you look at images of some of the stallions in the bottom half of his pedigree you will see they have a lot of substance.

Interesting as well & I hope something of a coincidence is that the two horses who died in the Grand National yesterday had Sadlers Wells very close up in their breeding.
 
looking for reasons of breakdown etc, QUOTE: 'modern methods may try to achieve more than has been done by men who laid the foundations of british stud success, why attribute our present day failures to inbreeding and kindred causes, are causes not more easily found in in the paddock and food house? a hundred and less years ago breeders bred horses for themselves under natural conditions, nowadays, quite 75 per cent are bred for sale at doncaster, new market, or dublin, the result is that these sale yearlings are unnaturally forced, and when they come to bear the strain of training they break down'

bloodstock breeders review, 1913, it would seem they having a similar conversation then!
 
tristar said:
looking for reasons of breakdown etc, QUOTE: 'modern methods may try to achieve more than has been done by men who laid the foundations of british stud success, why attribute our present day failures to inbreeding and kindred causes, are causes not more easily found in in the paddock and food house? a hundred and less years ago breeders bred horses for themselves under natural conditions, nowadays, quite 75 per cent are bred for sale at doncaster, new market, or dublin, the result is that these sale yearlings are unnaturally forced, and when they come to bear the strain of training they break down'

bloodstock breeders review, 1913, it would seem they having a similar conversation then!
Click to expand...

VERY interesting! And if they were saying that then... Hmmm.

And yes, after the discussion in this thread I thought it was very interesting that Neptune was French-bred and wondered if there was a little more "substance" in his pedigree.

A couple of months ago a friend posted footage that PETA collected of US 2yos breaking down while they were being breezed for buyers at a major auction. I couldn't watch it and I hate PETA, but the evidence was pretty damning. Even if they were just editing together the fatalities, that's still a LOT of fatalities.

http://blogs.equisearch.com/horsehealth/2011/09/13/peta-video-thoroughbreds-breakdown-twoyearold/

Does the same thing happen at British sales? I doubt it. But I don't know for certain. The stats that compared US, British and Australian fatalities showed that dirt was the most lethal surface for horses to run on. It must be a major factor but surely not the only one.

Whatever this issue is, it's complex, but the big owner-breeders need to start paying attention and the US really has to do something about drugs. They have just managed to ban Rick Dutrow for ten years, after multiple, multiple violations – he's the guy that dosed all his horses with all the steroids that were legal, regardless of whether they needed them or not.
 
I haven't heard of this sort of thing happening over here, but then it isn't something that would necessarily be publicised.
We do not know what time scale these were collected over. there are serious things wrong in US racing & it made me angry to see someone from over there blogging about our "cruel Grand National". At least none of the horses ran with painkilling drugs, steroids or huge doses of diuretic.
 
re: neptune collonges being part selle francais, i see that interestingly diamant de semilly, world champion of show jumping by team, has in fact the afore mentioned' hurry on' through 'ultimate' no less than four times in his sire and dam lines and 'orange peel' through his sire twice so is related to neptune, and 'vieux manoir' figures in a lot of selle francais show jumping pedigrees, 'diamant' is a big strong horse almost heavy hunter style.
 
The French have the right idea. They aren't breeding purebred thorouhgbreds. They aren't crossing for speed, or stamina as their only desire. They are breeding horses that will last. They bring them on slowly and build them up over time. In Britain especially there seems to be a trend of buying horses that have stayed a mile and a half or so on the flat and then training them for jumping. THe true old fashioned chasers are dying out and being replaced but daintier flat horses. Gone are the days when you would wait for your horse, you would Point it for a season to educate it. You would spend a season on 2 over hurdles to give it real track experience and then you would sed it chasing. The longevity of these horses careers says it all. These day your 'flat turned jumper' last no where near as long. If they don't break physically then they break mentally.

Britian needs to open its stud book up again slightly and bring in some new blood to put some stoutness back into the breed. All it takes is for one major owner/breeder to invest the time and effort into it then I am sure it will take off and everyone will be breeding for toughness and longevity, not instant 15mins of fame.
 
EKW hits the nail on the head for me, all done in too much of rush.
agree with the outcrossing.
i only once used a nijinsky line stallion and bred a filly with a wonky leg, first ever, so outcrossed to arab blood the result has legs like iron rods.

i don't know the figures for darley, coolmore etc, but a breeder called james ben ali haggin in usa, owned the 44,000 acres stud called rancho del paso in california, in 1901 he sold 241 yearlings bred on that estate, and when the stud was dispersed in 1905, 464 mares were catalogued.
 
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