Rising trot, no stirrups

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Sprat

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In order to help my lower leg stability, I’ve been doing some reading on exercises to help. Rising trot with no stirrups seems to be really effective, but I want to make sure I am doing it correctly. My understanding would be that the rise should come from a strong calf and pivoting forward from the hip, rather than a gripped knee – can any lower leg experts advise if I’m on the right track? I don’t want to start practising something incorrectly and causing more position problems.
 
Thanks Oldie, I've had a look at the link. The text is fairly self explanatory, but it doesn't go into specifics of muscle groups to use. Looking at the pictures posted, I would say that thighs are being used more than the calf. On a couple of those photos, the calf appears to be hanging fairly loose.
 
I find it easier bareback than with the saddle. If your horse lacks bend like mine right now, you feel pulled the wrong way in trot.

You rise as you would if you had stirrups.
 
Sprat said:
Thanks Oldie, I've had a look at the link. The text is fairly self explanatory, but it doesn't go into specifics of muscle groups to use. Looking at the pictures posted, I would say that thighs are being used more than the calf. On a couple of those photos, the calf appears to be hanging fairly loose.
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Hi, agree and that makes sense to me as I wouldn't want to be gripping with my calf or my knee for that matter as it would shut Rose down too much (although I probably do to some extent) I try to use my pelvis and the upward motion created by the trot movement when I have stirrups,so I guess it's the same without stirrups. It's years since I did rising trot without stirrups and I bet I just gripped with my knees and prayed!
 
It's really hard to explain the mechanics of it when you can do it, bit like rising trot generally - you just sort of press on your feet and let it happen. It's basically the same, you sort of hinge through your hips bring your core up and your feet down except you haven't any stirrups to press on so your "rise" will be quite minimal
 
I think where I'm struggling to grasp the idea is because my lower leg is pants, I generally push into my stirrup to rise (obviously, not correct and therefore creating the excess movement I'm trying to contain), so this doesn't translate very well into attempting sans stirrups.

I'll have a play about tonight and pray that Dennis is done with so I don't get blown off.
 
Sprat said:
I think where I'm struggling to grasp the idea is because my lower leg is pants, I generally push into my stirrup to rise (obviously, not correct and therefore creating the excess movement I'm trying to contain), so this doesn't translate very well into attempting sans stirrups.

I'll have a play about tonight and pray that Dennis is done with so I don't get blown off.
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I am not sure rising without stirrups is that useful, to have a more stable lower leg your core strength needs to be improved and then you rely less on the stirrups to assist with the rise, just removing them may feel helpful but you are likely to overcompensate in some way in order to remain in balance.
I would prefer to do some work in 2 point in all paces, doing it in walk can be really useful, to gain security and core strength, do some trot work where you stand for two, sit for one and increase the time you stand ensuring your leg does not go back and that you are not balancing on your hands, think of the pelvis lifting/going forward rather than actually standing/ rising, once you can stay up with your knee still slightly bent under you your leg should be far more secure and stable, most loss of control is due to going too high and straightening the knee rather than absorbing the movement through a soft knee and ankle joint.
If tried without stirrups think much the same the knee needs to remain soft and the rise just enough to lift off the saddle rather than leave daylight under you, think of wearing a pair of baggy breeches where the idea is they stay in contact with the saddle.
 
That’s really helpful BP, thank you. Will have a crack later in the week.

managed to get caught in a hailstorm while schooling this eve so thought it was probably best to keep my pedals ?‍♀️
 
be positive said:
I am not sure rising without stirrups is that useful, to have a more stable lower leg your core strength needs to be improved and then you rely less on the stirrups to assist with the rise, just removing them may feel helpful but you are likely to overcompensate in some way in order to remain in balance.
I would prefer to do some work in 2 point in all paces, doing it in walk can be really useful, to gain security and core strength, do some trot work where you stand for two, sit for one and increase the time you stand ensuring your leg does not go back and that you are not balancing on your hands, think of the pelvis lifting/going forward rather than actually standing/ rising, once you can stay up with your knee still slightly bent under you your leg should be far more secure and stable, most loss of control is due to going too high and straightening the knee rather than absorbing the movement through a soft knee and ankle joint.
If tried without stirrups think much the same the knee needs to remain soft and the rise just enough to lift off the saddle rather than leave daylight under you, think of wearing a pair of baggy breeches where the idea is they stay in contact with the saddle.
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I think this is a great reply :)
I was thinking about it earlier and I thought that if you are too dependent on the stirrups in rising trot, taking them away is likely to make you make some kind of other exaggerated compensatory movement, either as mentioned earlier being too tight in the knee, clamping on with the lower leg or losing upper body position. None of which will be helpful :p

Sometimes less is more. No stirrup work is great if you are in the right circumstances (quiet soft horse and good environment) and ideally with someone on the ground coaching you so that you don't end up making something else worse. It's not necessarily the answer to everything if your an owner/rider who works alone all the time. Rethinking the movement you are making as BP describes above is definitely something achievable though, love the baggy breeches image!
 
I think that's really valid MP, I am a one horse owner who mostly rides alone (aside from lessons), so potentially the no stirrup work without an eye on the ground isn't the way to go.

Love the baggy breeches idea as well, I work quite well with visualisation so that should stick in my mind
 
I think it can be a really useful thing to do, but I think it's better to make more piecemeal changes when you're on your tod, than go straight to something that is potentially too challenging to do well if that makes sense?
 
I find rising without stirrups useful for getting out of the habit of rising too high. When I rise by putting my weight in the stirrups I rise too high and I'm not as secure in the saddle. I seem to be able to correct it quickly by doing it without stirrups because I can't use my stirrups to rise when I don't have any!
 
mule said:
I find rising without stirrups useful for getting out of the habit of rising too high. When I rise by putting my weight in the stirrups I rise too high and I'm not as secure in the saddle. I seem to be able to correct it quickly by doing it without stirrups because I can't use my stirrups to rise when I don't have any!
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Yes this is exactly what I'm doing, and then my lower leg flings off towards the other side of the arena!
 
As MP has said it depends on the horse, I honestly wouldn't feel safe on Rose doing trot without stirrups, I find her trot is big enough to cope with with stirrups and because she's very sensitive I don't think she'd appreciate me going without. However, I do find it useful to kick my stirrups away when I first get on and let my legs dangle and my hips open (cos I'm old and stiff!). A previous horse had a small comfy trot and I was fine going without stirrups, also I didn't struggle with a downwards transition from canter but his paces were very different to Rose's.
 
I went on strike and never did it. As a non horsey person, it made no sense to me. Tho people said one ought to.
And after I moved to our long term RI, she never asked for it. So I was spared.
 
be positive said:
I am not sure rising without stirrups is that useful, to have a more stable lower leg your core strength needs to be improved and then you rely less on the stirrups to assist with the rise, just removing them may feel helpful but you are likely to overcompensate in some way in order to remain in balance.
I would prefer to do some work in 2 point in all paces, doing it in walk can be really useful, to gain security and core strength, do some trot work where you stand for two, sit for one and increase the time you stand ensuring your leg does not go back and that you are not balancing on your hands, think of the pelvis lifting/going forward rather than actually standing/ rising, once you can stay up with your knee still slightly bent under you your leg should be far more secure and stable, most loss of control is due to going too high and straightening the knee rather than absorbing the movement through a soft knee and ankle joint.
If tried without stirrups think much the same the knee needs to remain soft and the rise just enough to lift off the saddle rather than leave daylight under you, think of wearing a pair of baggy breeches where the idea is they stay in contact with the saddle.
Click to expand...

I thought I was the only one who used the “leave your breeches on the saddle and rise up and down inside them” thing, and I stole it from an ancient instructor from the 70s who definitely wore baggy breeches (and a tea cosy on her head).
 
Rowreach said:
I thought I was the only one who used the “leave your breeches on the saddle and rise up and down inside them” thing, and I stole it from an ancient instructor from the 70s who definitely wore baggy breeches (and a tea cosy on her head).
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I stole it from somewhere many years ago and like many things you pick up over the years every now and again it proves useful.
 
oldie48 said:
As MP has said it depends on the horse, I honestly wouldn't feel safe on Rose doing trot without stirrups, I find her trot is big enough to cope with with stirrups and because she's very sensitive I don't think she'd appreciate me going without. However, I do find it useful to kick my stirrups away when I first get on and let my legs dangle and my hips open (cos I'm old and stiff!). A previous horse had a small comfy trot and I was fine going without stirrups, also I didn't struggle with a downwards transition from canter but his paces were very different to Rose's.
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This is my slight concern, as Bean has a big bouncy trot. I have done no stirrups with her in the past, with varying success. But while we are still in the depths of windy winter I think I'll employ the stand for two, sit for one and gradually increase to try and help the lower leg strength
 
those big paced bouncy horses are exactly the ones that can make no-stirrups work end up being a bit counter productive if you get defensive and tense as a rider because the movement is too big to cope with. The sort that move like a typewriter are easier to get started with, or else see if you can get someone to lunge you on your horse (if she is sensible) so you can really just concentrate on your own body. A skilled lunge instructor can really help with stuff like this but not everyone is good at it.

several years ago I had a friend who had trained in germany and was good on rider stuff, she lunged me on my horse and gave me exercises to do while she did the pace and steering. These days tbh it would probably be easier to find a mechanical horse to do it on.
 
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