Tarragon
Well-Known Member
Thinking of you ...
Robin
- Thread starter doodle
- Start date
Breagha
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed...
Annagain
Well-Known Member
Thinking of you and Robin today, K. Hope you get to the bottom of it all.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Wishing the best for you and Robin today.
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
Wishing the best for you and him today.
Different situation as she was only 3, but one of my mares was very ill with extremely similar symptoms to what you describe (colicky, ulcery, very sensitive to touch and very angry at the world) for months. Vets were never really able to help much (despite best efforts). She had mycotoxin poisoning of some description. Tbh I really didn't think I would get that horse to adulthood alive - at its worse she was having mild colic episodes a couple of times a week and spending hours in the field lay on her side heavy breathing.
There was no magic pill unfortunately, but diet and time did fix her in the end. I couldn't really tell you what diet-wise helped because I fed her pretty much anything and everything with any evidence of helping.
She is now a very vibrant, very lively 6yo in wonderful condition, so don't give up hope.
Different situation as she was only 3, but one of my mares was very ill with extremely similar symptoms to what you describe (colicky, ulcery, very sensitive to touch and very angry at the world) for months. Vets were never really able to help much (despite best efforts). She had mycotoxin poisoning of some description. Tbh I really didn't think I would get that horse to adulthood alive - at its worse she was having mild colic episodes a couple of times a week and spending hours in the field lay on her side heavy breathing.
There was no magic pill unfortunately, but diet and time did fix her in the end. I couldn't really tell you what diet-wise helped because I fed her pretty much anything and everything with any evidence of helping.
She is now a very vibrant, very lively 6yo in wonderful condition, so don't give up hope.
doodle
Well-Known Member
Good and bad news. But at least not all bad. One very small, non bleeding or sore looking ulcer. Happy to leave it. Anaemia back to normal. All other bloods totally normal. He thinks highly unlikely cancer which I was worrying about.
Bad news is his lungs are worse. More fluid and mucus. Got further into lungs and they are full of froth. He is not entirely sure why. He wants to try steroids but needs all infection gone ideally. So he took another sample ( he showed me and it was half cloudy fluid and half froth) and will see what that grows. Sending again to cytology but fairly confident that will be ok. He is very concerned that his breathing still to shallow and fast. Abs until we get results of the wash, hopefully Monday and see where we go from there. But he is confident it is the lungs making him so ill rather than anything else.
Bad news is his lungs are worse. More fluid and mucus. Got further into lungs and they are full of froth. He is not entirely sure why. He wants to try steroids but needs all infection gone ideally. So he took another sample ( he showed me and it was half cloudy fluid and half froth) and will see what that grows. Sending again to cytology but fairly confident that will be ok. He is very concerned that his breathing still to shallow and fast. Abs until we get results of the wash, hopefully Monday and see where we go from there. But he is confident it is the lungs making him so ill rather than anything else.
doodle
Well-Known Member
He is now definitely fat thought. I have spoken to Allen abs page and they have suggested a similar feed but less calories. Sending a sample as it is just to get his meds into him as he gained the dropped weight and more!
Annagain
Well-Known Member
Well that's good news of sorts - at least you know where you are and why he's been so down. Is the nurse going to be doing her sister's horses for a while? Maybe she could help you with IM jabs if she's there anyway? I know you said Robin gets upset with them, but with a pro doing it he might be ok - and he won't be upset with you at least!
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
Hi Kamikaze, yes, lungs can be scarred as a result of infection or chronic illness (I'm a research scientist in respiratory disease). Cells in the lung are not fixed in the way they behave. They respond to different things (especially inflammation) by changing into different types of cell, including fibroblasts (scar tissue) or in the case of ciliated cells, they change into goblet cells (which are responsible for the increase in and thickening of mucus). Cloudy lavage would suggest presence of neutrophils (white blood cells) and debris from dead cells, but cytology will confirm (or make a liar of me!). Your vet's call for steroids is a good one. If nothing else it will reduce the mucus. Froth lower down will probably be an increase in surfactant protein mixed with the air being breathed in. Hope he improves. Poor lad.
doodle
Well-Known Member
@Fransurrey thanks for that, very helpful. I like understanding more of the science.
@Annagain a very good point and I hadn’t thought of it. Will look into it.
@Annagain a very good point and I hadn’t thought of it. Will look into it.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
That's good news about the ulcers and blood tests!
Have you spoken to your vet or thought about medication delivered via nebulizer? Mine had a persistent infection and cough a few years back (he also has allergies) and I used a Flexineb with him to deliver the steroid and brochodilators. So maybe some inhalation theraphy of sorts could help? Just a thought.
Have you spoken to your vet or thought about medication delivered via nebulizer? Mine had a persistent infection and cough a few years back (he also has allergies) and I used a Flexineb with him to deliver the steroid and brochodilators. So maybe some inhalation theraphy of sorts could help? Just a thought.
Tash88
Well-Known Member
Hi K - I don't have anything more to add in terms of advice, but pleased that you have some answers at least, and hopefully you and the vets will find the way forward with his lung infection in the next few days. I think it's also a positive sign that he's gained back the weight he dropped, even if he will need to go on a spring diet!
Best wishes x
Best wishes x
doodle
Well-Known Member
Yes that’s the next possible but he wants the infection gone first. Been on bronco dilators in his feed.
Fleece Navidad
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about his lung infection, hope you can get it cleared up soon.
Forgive me if this has been brought up before, but is he on hay or haylage?
I ask because mine had recurring issues (on and off for months, massively elevated breathing with emergency vet calls, treatment with bronchodilators, steroids, multiple scopes, trying every respiratory supplement around to support him between the bouts of drugs, the works) while on hay, even soaked hay.
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meleeka
Well-Known Member
I’m pleased you have something to work on and it’s just the one thing. That’s got to be better than the list of possibles you had before.
doodle
Well-Known Member
He’s on hay as that is all yard has. I can’t really afford to buy haylage as I wouldn’t get a reduction in livery for not using hay. Along with no where to store so would have to be bagged small bales and I just can’t do it. I do wonder if we will be looking at a yard move tho.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
at least you have a diagnosis and hopefully he can be treated and will soon feel better, hugs xx
GinaGeo
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear you've had some good news.
One of mine had a severe respiratory infection several years ago (although his was upper airway). He couldn't tolerate any hay, of any form regardless of how soaked/steamed it was for years. Eight years on, he can now eat it soaked every now and again. Might be worth trying some small bale haylage as a test?
Mine's tricky because he also has EMS which means he can't have grass (talk about pain in the bum!). But he lives out on a track with haylage. He can access the stables, but they have thick EVA mats down and no bedding (that can set him off as well). It did take him quite awhile to shake it and we ended up with multiple courses of anti-biotics and then with him on steroids for awhile (not ideal for him) but they did do the job in the end.
One of mine had a severe respiratory infection several years ago (although his was upper airway). He couldn't tolerate any hay, of any form regardless of how soaked/steamed it was for years. Eight years on, he can now eat it soaked every now and again. Might be worth trying some small bale haylage as a test?
Mine's tricky because he also has EMS which means he can't have grass (talk about pain in the bum!). But he lives out on a track with haylage. He can access the stables, but they have thick EVA mats down and no bedding (that can set him off as well). It did take him quite awhile to shake it and we ended up with multiple courses of anti-biotics and then with him on steroids for awhile (not ideal for him) but they did do the job in the end.
doodle
Well-Known Member
Did your horse cough? The strange thing is Robin isn’t. I think it would help if he did abs could get of some
Of the gunk.
GinaGeo
Well-Known Member
Yes - he could hardly breathe for coughing. But his was upper way - I don't know if that make a difference?
It was a really dry, hacking cough he'd get.
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
Bear in mind that given orally, they're not as effective, as they have to survive first-pass metabolism (removal from circulation by kidneys and liver). Inhaled bronchodilators are much more effective. More of a pain to administer, which is why oral is normally first port of call, but sounds like it's worth considering for your boy.
doodle
Well-Known Member
He was put on them initially before we got the results of the first tracheal wash. They brought his breathing down from 26 to 20. He had for 2 weeks or so until we got the right antibiotics into him and a chance to work.
doodle
Well-Known Member
I’m happy for him to have steroids inhaled but vet wants to wait until infection clear as they can lower immune system and cause more issues.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
You can also nebulize just saline solution which can help.
laura_nash
Well-Known Member
Mine had a lung infection, but more similar to Robin as he didn't cough at all or have any snot coming out just very miserable. Luckily his cleared up very quickly with AB's but he also can't tolerate stabling for more than about 24hrs now, having been fine before. His breathing gradually deteriorated over the year after and I really wish I could go back and be stricter with dust during and just after the infection but it wasn't mentioned at all at the time. He can now (12 years on) tolerate some hay in the field in a small holed net (so he can't get his nose into it), but only one net a day. He's the other way around as he can't tolerate much haylage (gives him hives) so has to live out on grass which is a nightmare for weight management, but at least he can breathe so that takes priority.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
That's sort of like what kicked off my guy's allergies/dust intolerance. He had an upper respiratory infection of sorts, 2 courses of antibiotics and brochodilator. We knocked out the infection but then had inflammation still (larynx mostly) so used a steroid and broncodilator in the nebulizer.
He now lives in a stable with linseed straw pellets for bedding, an attached paddock (hard standing, stable always open to it) and with one hay net soaked, another dry. It works for him.
He now lives in a stable with linseed straw pellets for bedding, an attached paddock (hard standing, stable always open to it) and with one hay net soaked, another dry. It works for him.
Trouper
Well-Known Member
I do hope you can make some progress when the lab results come back. I have no other suggestions but I do know how low chest infections can make you feel so it is not surprising Robin has been so miserable.
doodle
Well-Known Member
He was a complete stress head this morning. Bed had been trashed, he had opened his door (has a chain too so can’t get out) and was desperate to get out. I seem to remember the last time he went to vets he was the same the next day. He didn’t seem upset at the vets and vet commented how well behaved he was but maybe worried the same would happen to him today. Biblical weather today so thought I would turn out, muck out and bring in. He was off up the field head down to left him.
hollyandivy123
Well-Known Member
i know this might seem a strange suggestion, are you sure he doesn't have rats, we had one that would not relax in a stable fine in others, they put up a night camera and found out they had a lot of nocturnal visitors, once these were relocated shall we say the problem started to resolve.
pop a camera up and you might see what is happening,
pop a camera up and you might see what is happening,
doodle
Well-Known Member
He is normally too calm in stable. Head down miserable calm. It was just this morning and I think he was worrying he was going back to the vet. He was the same last time. He is back in now and stuffing face with hay.