Royal Canin - good or bad??!?

[KarynK]

Ah so people who post on Forums are not real? The thing with forums is that unlike face to face which limits you severely you can obtain information from all over the world, like the one above from India where climate dictates! Then You can do your own thinking and reasoning and make your own reasoned judgement.

If it were not for one principle voice on raw feeding and a few people with open minds and truly bad experiences then Raw would not be as popular as it is today and so many dogs including mine would not be benefiting I am so glad for them that I am a sucker!!.

No one is saying that raw feeding is the answer for every owner, but in general I find those that decry it have not fully researched the subject, have not feed it correctly and most often not given it a proper chance to work properly (at least 6 months).

If someone has thoroughly researched the commercial food they use outside the blind faith in the printed material, have asked searching questions of that company like do you use natural preservatives for example and are fully satisfied that that feed meets the needs of their dog then fair enough. But if people don't ask searching questions and feed on what the company tells them things will not change and dogs will continue to be fed inappropriately.

N.B If you top your kibble with things like sardines, eggs etc you cannot then claim that the kibble has had a sole effect on your dogs well being, what you are topping it with has the power to modify they diet especially eggs fed raw which contain most of the nutrients a dog needs in a very available form as with the fish they are a power food and even one or two helpings a week is enough to make a difference to the complete diets performance!!!

There are people on here that have used this feed successfully and posted about it, I have not had a bad experience as I don't feed kibble just voiced my concerns regarding cereal and carb content which is why I would avoid it were I considering this type of food, no one has argued that cereals and rice are good for dogs or natural???

In each of these postings one or two more people have approached me for help in starting out raw and I am getting very good feedback from them, a lot more are having raw days which is brilliant and also having an effect, that is my incentive to continue my research.

Having done some considerable research from academic and anecdotal sources I fear for the future generations and hope that I have got it horribly wrong but from what I am seeing I fear not.

 

[galaxy]

Ah so people who post on Forums are not real? The thing with forums is that unlike face to face which limits you severely you can obtain information from all over the world, like the one above from India where climate dictates! Then You can do your own thinking and reasoning and make your own reasoned judgement.

Does it help if I say I know Karyn in real life and her tasmanian devil dogs! Love them!

The fact about the RAW people on this section, compared to other sections of this people where they have certain views on what some people consider the "normal" way of keeping their animals, is that they are not judgemental or try and ram it down your throats. They understand that it's just not possible for some people to do a RAW diet (myself included) no matter how much they want to. Hope that makes sense! lol!

 

[KarynK]

Darn I've been rumbled!!! Now they know I'm not a cartoon character or some artificial intelligence on the internet!!!

 

[suzysparkle]

As someone who has said they like Royal Canin (performance 4300 pro) I thought I'd add this info. We have been to Alaska and visited a few sled dog kennels, all running purebred Siberian Huskies. All of them, like us, fed a mixture of kibble and raw meat in a thick soup. I'm not saying all sled dog kennels do this of course but the ones we went to did. The kibble varied in terms of manufacturer but were generally all 30/20 (ie 30% protein and 20% fat). You see many mushers over there endorsing various kibble feeds.

We have found this to be the best for our dogs and for us. When going to rallies we need to take food with us for the time we are away so kibble is much much easier (and this does involve one or two nights away in the van). We plan to race on the continent this year and that will mean 2-3 weeks away so it will be kibble and then any meat we can get when away. Our dogs all look great and perform well with no health issues. Our oldest boy at 10 is still racing comfortably in our second team and I know of huskies on the same sort of diet running at 13 years old. One of our dogs was imported from Alaska and he was immediately put on RC 4300 / meat with absolutely no stomach upset or loose stools. I know a couple of people who used to feed their Huskies raw, then when the numbers grew (as they inevitably do), switched to the same mix with no issues. In an ideal world I'd have a couple of huge chest freezers and someone who could supply raw in bulk, but I just don't have that available. Even then I'd still feed some kibble so that it could be used when away. Our one 'non husky', a collie (also runs in harness), also gets the same diet, looks just great and is like a duracell battery....LOL.

I do however think that all dogs should be allowed raw meaty bones when possible. If nothing else they do wonders for their teeth. Ours get them at least once a week. I get all the bones and meat from a butcher. Our pups started getting bones at a young age as well.

Interestingly, Huskies and many other arctic breeds can be prone to zinc deficiency. I read a study a while ago that reckoned it was due to them originally living mainly on a diet of fish. The issue is to do with how they absorb it. Maybe I should start a fish farm then for the dogs?! How awesome would that be?!!!!!!!! The thing with meat is you can pick up meaty bones for free or reasonable cost, but you can't get fish in the same way. Or can you? I mean really oily fish.

I'd never try and force feeding regimes on anyone as what works for one won't necessarliy work for another. However, I struggle to accept RC being called rubbish (etc)........I know a lot of people who feed it, and we are talking hard working sled dogs as well like ours who really rate it, so it can't be that bad!

You should see the stuff that the farm next door feed their collies, and what comes out the other end. Now that really is rubbish food!

 

[Fiagai]

...The fact about the RAW people on this section, compared to other sections of this people where they have certain views on what some people consider the "normal" way of keeping their animals, is that they are not judgemental or try and ram it down your throats. ...

Bit confused I havn't came across such post tbh? Most of the posters here appear to be fairly polite and / or informative or are refering to elsewhere?

 

[galaxy]

Bit confused I havn't came across such post tbh? Most of the posters here appear to be fairly polite and / or informative or are refering to elsewhere?

Refering to other section of the forum about different topics....

 

[Fiagai]

Refering to other section of the forum about different topics....

Ok fare 'nuff!

 

[KarynK]

There a lot to be said for species appropriate diet and a bit of careful thought can often avoid problems.

If you have a fishmonger (another dying breed) nearby or a salmon factory up there then they will give you the heads and bones, I even used to buy them cheap from Waitrose for my collie crosses, but my cattle dogs hate fish and its hard even to get the pilchards in tomato sauce down them, though I do shove a bit of whitebait in with it now and then. Obviously in the middle of Australia fish are not on the menu for them, but I've told them Kangaroo is not on the menu!!!

The zinc problem in some Sibes is really interesting and raises questions as to if the zinc in some foods is properly available to the dog because in humans Zinc absorption is impaired by phytates which of course are abundant in cereals!

Good sources of Zinc are found in cattle and sheep (mutton or lamb) muscle meat and of course copper and Iron in the marrow of bones in a natural diet. So feed raw meaty bones and you get very near the optimum ratio of 8:1 Zinc to copper

 

[suzysparkle]

Well, on the back of these recent posts I've just had a look at, and asked about, fish4dogs which mainly consists of (no surprise!)....fish! Looks interesting. Only one of mine has zinc deficiency and the problem appears to be their ability to absorb zinc. We tried a full BARF diet with this dog for a year (and did it properly) and it didn't make any difference. She gets a dog specific zinc supplement and even then she needs more of it than usual.
That's a good idea about asking a fishmonger. There are a couple not too far away from here. I never actually thought of that. Thanks!!!

 

[KarynK]

Is there any hint that the zinc problem is genetic? It sounds like an absorption problem within the digestive system rather than a blocking or non availability in the diet which might hint at a mutation causing the inability to process the Zinc?? It will be very interesting to see if the fish improves the situation with her in which case the species appropriate diet will win out, let me know how you get on.

My old girls used to love the salmon heads and were quite partial to boned out Dover sole!!!

 

[suzysparkle]

Genetic - yes it often seems to be. Her father gets it very mildly in winter. Yes it is an absorption problem. Mine is a very unusual case though as she doesn't present the typical symtoms. We tried BARF and various allergy diets to try and rule things out. The zinc supplementation helps but isn't a full 'cure'. Very long story!
Hang on and I'll see if I can find the info I read where fish was mentioned.............

Ah here we are :
http://www.allabouthuskies.co.uk/health-zrd.html

Unfortunately zincaderm was discontinued some time ago which is a real shame as it was excellent.

 

[KarynK]

That's interesting as fish are quite high in vitamin A as well so a fish based diet might well help her a lot, isn't that typical when you find something that really works they discontinue it!! Probably the straight banana brigade in Brussels!!

Re Dad in winter that probably makes sense as that is when he is hard at work. Some of these conditions appear suddenly throughout a population, we have one in Appaloosas at the moment that has come through QH lines, but they are unable to pinpoint exact sources as it appears in several lines. It is also variable in it's intensity of symptoms with some being crippled and others leading very active lives.

 

[suzysparkle]

LOL

Yes with many who only have it mildly it appears in the 'running season'!!

 

[cruiseline]

The 5 dogs we have out here are all fed on RC, but they have their own bags, each one is fed differently, as we have a 12 year old GSD, a 7 year old GSD, a 5 year old Pit Bull, a year old Cocker and a year old Bassett They all seem to be doing very well on it so far. Our male GSD up to the age of 10 was covering more than 25 kilometres a day 7 days a week in temperatures ranging from 12 - 35 degrees with our endurance horses.