RSPCA shoots 11 HEALTHY horses but claimed keep fees for months

[Meowy Catkin]

Don't worry Alec, you've not upset me. I do understand that there is a bigger picture. I guess I hope that this is the case that brings a lot of things to the public's attention and possibly starts a change for the better. Plus I really would like to know what happened to my grey's half brother who was one of the Peel's horses.

 

[Saddlesore62]

I'd like to know the Daily Fail's source - we all know they can be economical with the truth. I'm no fan of RSPCA but it seems to me if this is true it is a massive own goal for the charity, which could have a major impact on their income when it was made public

You only have to read the RSPCA's statement to see that the story in the Mail on Sunday is completely true - it is not being disputed at all.

 

[ester]

For those not reading AL as well a post of a post remarks that the numbers have never added up, there were 7 dead, the RSPCA removed 31 horses, they sent 14 to one livery yard, one destroyed on arrival having broken a leg during transport, and a further 11 of them, all certified by the vet as Bright, Alert and Responsive, ie capable of rehabilitation, were shot. A further (lucky!) 6 went to HAPPA, leaving 11 unaccounted for from an original statement that 31 horses and ponies were removed.

So far, nobody has discovered what has happened to these 11.

 

[Sadika]

For those not reading AL as well a post of a post remarks that the numbers have never added up, there were 7 dead, the RSPCA removed 31 horses, they sent 14 to one livery yard, one destroyed on arrival having broken a leg during transport, and a further 11 of them, all certified by the vet as Bright, Alert and Responsive, ie capable of rehabilitation, were shot. A further (lucky!) 6 went to HAPPA, leaving 11 unaccounted for from an original statement that 31 horses and ponies were removed.

So far, nobody has discovered what has happened to these 11.

I know that point has been bugging me ... actually the report I read said there were 31 LIVING horses - then 14 taken by RSPCA and 6 by HAPPA leaving 11 unaccounted for???

 

[Pinkvboots]

I know that point has been bugging me ... actually the report I read said there were 31 LIVING horses - then 14 taken by RSPCA and 6 by HAPPA leaving 11 unaccounted for???

So I wonder who the other 11 are? And what 6 went to happa does anyone know? Someone did put a link to a grey gelding up for re homing on this thread I saw it a few days ago I wonder if he came from there.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Did Bransby take any of the eleven? I remember being forwarded an ad about an arab that they had.

Found it - http://www.bransbyhorses.co.uk/re-homing/re-homing animals-Raff.html

It says he was taken as part of a 'multi organisational effort to reduce numbers from a breeder', so perhaps not.

 

[marmalade76]

To add, if its pointed out that a pick-up or call out may be a registered pony with a breed society, they are just not interested in following it up.
1st hand experience of this, despite chips or brands etc, its SO annoying when I KNOW the breed societies concerned would bend over backwards to assist, contacting breeders etc or people willing to have them, but thats not what RSPCA like at all.
IMHO, they prefer to just use the stable name, palm off animal as a foster or re-home it and its out of the system; another animal which is lost from studbooks etc and untraceable (except by chip) in the future as they usually get re-passported if they are not PTS.
Either that or its not 'in the best interests' to let breed society know, as case is 'pending'. By the time its come to court, they wont bother to contact breed society as 'equine now well settled' where it is, makes my blood boil

That does seem to be the case, but why? Is it so they can blame indiscriminate breeding in all horses, not just coloured cobs and feral ponies?

 

[Equi]

I think it is time the equine community forced the RSPCA to admit they have no knowledge of horses and to stop them being allowed to have anything to do with them. WHW or similar needs more power to help out the RSPCA needs kicked off the case (and needs to drop that royal!!)

 

[marmalade76]

I know this sounds heartless, but I always wonder why desirable horses like these (that may actually be useful) are put down, and yet the RSPCA retains literally hundreds of unbroken ponies.

These ponies aren't sought after because they are so small they can only be ridden by children, but due to lack of handling or mistreatment aren't quiet enough for kids. They are also not the easiest companions to ridden horses, as they require very restricted grazing and consistent exercise to prevent laminitis.

I know that is a cold approach, but with limited space and funds, surely horses that can be rehomed quickly need to be prioritised, so that another can fill their space. Is it just that under 13hhs are more likely to be abandoned/neglected? Or are these just easier to handle? It sounds like a lot of the people dealing with equine rescue within the RSPCA may be knowledgeable about animals in general, but not experienced horsemen. In which case anything above 13hh probably IS difficult to handle... And I'm sorry but how the hell did they manage to break that poor mare's leg in transit? I don't believe that they even realise the depth of knowledge needed to handle equines safely. Like Fuzzy said, they are C-test level, and they think that this is enough. They need staff that are experienced and fearless when handling difficult horses. You can find them for minimum wage on most eventing yards....

I have sympathy for the society in that they are fighting an uphill battle, but making stupid decisions like these (the destruction of animals without their owners knowledge, not to mention the shifty expenses claim) will turn the public against them, which will not help their cause.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[ribbons]

The RSPCA is the only animal welfare organisation that I can find that after rehoming a horse, they keep control for a mere 6 months. After that the new owner can do whatever they like with it.
All other rescue groups retain ownership for life, the horse can never be sold or passed on.
Wonder how many times they get the same horse back again due to sloppy rehoming policies.
Do they do the same thing with dogs?

 

[catkin]

To add, if its pointed out that a pick-up or call out may be a registered pony with a breed society, they are just not interested in following it up.
1st hand experience of this, despite chips or brands etc, its SO annoying when I KNOW the breed societies concerned would bend over backwards to assist, contacting breeders etc or people willing to have them, but thats not what RSPCA like at all.
IMHO, they prefer to just use the stable name, palm off animal as a foster or re-home it and its out of the system; another animal which is lost from studbooks etc and untraceable (except by chip) in the future as they usually get re-passported if they are not PTS.
Either that or its not 'in the best interests' to let breed society know, as case is 'pending'. By the time its come to court, they wont bother to contact breed society as 'equine now well settled' where it is, makes my blood boil

I may be a cynic here - I suppose that now multiple-passporting is more difficult tis easier to let the horses 'disappear' as they can't be re-passported.

It makes my blood boil too for pure-breds to lose their heritage. It's not just a matter of taking them out of the breeding pool (though thats tragic enough with old and rare bloodlines) they are also loved and cherished for who and what they are.

 

[MurphysMinder]

The RSPCA is the only animal welfare organisation that I can find that after rehoming a horse, they keep control for a mere 6 months. After that the new owner can do whatever they like with it.
All other rescue groups retain ownership for life, the horse can never be sold or passed on.
Wonder how many times they get the same horse back again due to sloppy rehoming policies.
Do they do the same thing with dogs?

There is someone near me who has rehomed a horse from Rspca and as you say assumed ownership after 6 months. Whereas I cannot say it is neglected or ill treated in the true sense of the word, it is not visited daily, is in a field with awful fencing (stock fencing lying on the ground) and certainly does not have what I would consider a good home.

 

[Equi]

Huh, i never knew that. Interesting!

 

[SO1]

I expect that most of the rescued horses are difficult to re-home whatever the breed as there are more horses than there are people who can look after them.

The RSCPA are a multi-animal charity and like others have mentioned the RSPCA officers have to deal with a large number of calls for all different animals, and they may not have the training to be experts on all of them.

Who made the decision on if the horses were suitable for re-homing was it a vet or was it an RSPCA officer? If it was an RSCPA officer did they have knowledge of horses and are there an internal guideline that the decision makers are given which indicates what sort of horses are difficult to re-home or be kept at the sanctuaries. I expect older stallions are on the list of horses that are difficult to re-home as well as perhaps anything highly strung, or possibly expensive to keep.

Arabs unfortunately like TB's have a reputation for being highly strung and poor doers who need a decent amount of food to keep them going so possibly expensive to keep and not suitable to be handled by novices and more high maintenance to keep than a cob. Cobs have a reputation for being easy to handle and cheap to keep as they tend to be good doers who can winter out on poor grazing and don't need much food. Whilst these are of course stereotypes a person who does not have a great deal of experience with horses may use stereotypical information to decide what is suitable to be re-homed or kept at the sanctuary or they may have used previous data if they have had Arabs before come in as rescues who have been hard to re-home or difficult/expensive to keep at the Sanctuary.

I expect the RSPCA probably have a similar stance with regard to dogs with some breeds such as Staffies being put down due to their reputation as a breed rather than assessing the individual concerned and its condition.

Is the RSPCA loosing trust in the breed societies after they have these sort of cases? With regard to the Arab Horse society if this Peel woman was an upstanding well respected trusted member of this society and did this to the horses and people were taken in by her, how do they decide who at the Arab horse society is going to be trustworthy. There has also been some negative publicity {even on this forum} about the some Arabs are shown and how the AHS won't step in to prevent what is seen by some as a welfare issue.

I do wonder if the composition of the breed societies in general is changing with the desire to breed HOYS winners and competition horses is becoming more important to some people than preserving bloodlines and type and in some cases the welfare of the horses.

Sadly I think that the RCPSA have so many calls out and cases now they just do not have the resources to deal with them all properly and I think this contributes to the mistakes being made. Yes they do have a large number of donations but the cost of running the organisation and the care of the animals must be considerable and a lot of the funding maybe restricted so they can't use it on core running costs. Legacies or large donations often come with restrictions on what they can be spent on. I work for a charity myself and charitable funding is complicated. If the charity goes under then the trustees can loose their assets, this means that a lot of trustees will be very cautious when it comes to spending decisions and many charities have
large reserves of money {often at least a years running costs} because of this.

I know this sounds heartless, but I always wonder why desirable horses like these (that may actually be useful) are put down, and yet the RSPCA retains literally hundreds of unbroken ponies.

These ponies aren't sought after because they are so small they can only be ridden by children, but due to lack of handling or mistreatment aren't quiet enough for kids. They are also not the easiest companions to ridden horses, as they require very restricted grazing and consistent exercise to prevent laminitis.

I know that is a cold approach, but with limited space and funds, surely horses that can be rehomed quickly need to be prioritised, so that another can fill their space. Is it just that under 13hhs are more likely to be abandoned/neglected? Or are these just easier to handle? It sounds like a lot of the people dealing with equine rescue within the RSPCA may be knowledgeable about animals in general, but not experienced horsemen. In which case anything above 13hh probably IS difficult to handle... And I'm sorry but how the hell did they manage to break that poor mare's leg in transit? I don't believe that they even realise the depth of knowledge needed to handle equines safely. Like Fuzzy said, they are C-test level, and they think that this is enough. They need staff that are experienced and fearless when handling difficult horses. You can find them for minimum wage on most eventing yards....

I have sympathy for the society in that they are fighting an uphill battle, but making stupid decisions like these (the destruction of animals without their owners knowledge, not to mention the shifty expenses claim) will turn the public against them, which will not help their cause.

 

[ester]

My concern is that Cooper Wilson made the decision - or at least advised the RSPCA what he, as a horse expert, thought....

I don't think the RSPCA has any funding issues, if they do they could stop bringing some ridiculous prosecutions often against the most vulnerable - A friend is a magistrate and rolls his eyes if you mention them and many of the prosecutions they bring.

I guess the difference with staffies is that they get a lot of them, it could be argued they actually know about them whereas the same could not be said about arabs.

The AHS is certainly far from perfect but given the minimal care the RSPCA give rehomed horses anyway I suspect that worrying that they might end up with another Peel was not part of the decision.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

Is the RSPCA loosing trust in the breed societies after they have these sort of cases? With regard to the Arab Horse society if this Peel woman was an upstanding well respected trusted member of this society and did this to the horses and people were taken in by her, how do they decide who at the Arab horse society is going to be trustworthy.

…….. .

Whilst all those Societies, made up of those who would group together for the promotion and interest of any type or breed of animal will be made up of an eclectic mix of people, to suggest that the reason for the rspca's obvious disregard of the opinions of breed society members is because of the minority who stand at either end of the extremes, cannot be accepted. The simple fact is that the rspca have a total disregard for anyone who would criticise them or their current stance on animal welfare, or even their easily viewed, obvious and displayed inabilities.

Accepting that the rspca, by and large, are not equipped to deal with equines isn't a good enough excuse for their refusal to accept advice or help, and if as you suggest they're so mistrustful, that doesn't excuse their stonewalling of the offers of the well intentioned and experienced. Similarly, the current ethos which drives the rspca council cannot be excused because of a distorted view of humanity, or their treatment of either animal or human. Were they right in their views, then we wouldn't see such a constant stream of appalling events, and there wouldn't be the clear evidence provided by the SHG/rspca.

If I understand your post correctly, it's an attempt at providing a balanced argument, and whilst accepting that there will, amongst breed societies be those who are other than as the main streams, to offer any justification for the behaviour of the rspca in this and many other matters, isn't acceptable.

I along with many other private individuals have attempted to engage the rspca in meaningful dialogue and in a purposeful and positive manner. I have never yet had even a reply to my letters or attempts at communication. There is no excuse for the behaviour of the rspca, in any form.

Alec.

 

[Fenris]

This thread has become famous.

https://cdanews.com/2015/09/eleven-healthy-horses-killed-by-rspca-animal-charity/

See last paragraph

 

[Alec Swan]

This thread has become famous.

https://cdanews.com/2015/09/eleven-healthy-horses-killed-by-rspca-animal-charity/

See last paragraph

I'm not entirely sure that the H&H Magazine has actually launched in to a scathing attack. Many on here have, clearly, but this forum isn't the Magazine, unless I've missed something! Does anyone have access to any official H&H comments?

Alec.

 

[Leo Walker]

My concern is that Cooper Wilson made the decision - or at least advised the RSPCA what he, as a horse expert, thought....

I read in one article that he had strongly advised against PTS and hadnt wanted to do it. Typically, I now cant find that again! If I find it I'll post the link.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I read in one article that he had strongly advised against PTS and hadnt wanted to do it. Typically, I now cant find that again! If I find it I'll post the link.

It's in the original MoS article. He said that he could rehome 4 of them but he wasn't allowed to.

ETA

'Even the man who shot the horses for the RSPCA told the MoS: 'Some of those horses could have been rehomed, but I was told I wasn't allowed to. I could have rehomed four of them.' Last night the RSPCA insisted the horses had 'no realistic prospect of being rehomed' at the time, yet the MoS saw ample evidence that horse-lovers were desperate to give the animals a loving home.

The RSPCA said there was a 'difference of opinion' with Mr Wilson about the suitability for rehoming of the horses he didn't want to shoot.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-stable-fees-months-deaths.html#ixzz3mAxcfZKe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[MotherOfChickens]

slight tangent but I've not met an arab yet that was a poor doer, the ones I've met live off fresh air much like most Iberians and many are as tough as old boots. Given that your average cob seems to suffer with mites, mud fever and obesity i know which one I'd rather manage.

I think plainly the RSPCA are anti breeding, anti breed societies and wrt that have their own agenda.

 

[cobgoblin]

Can I ask a daft question?
How come two of the horses were rehomed? Did these end up at a different charity?

 

[marmalade76]

slight tangent but I've not met an arab yet that was a poor doer, the ones I've met live off fresh air much like most Iberians and many are as tough as old boots. Given that your average cob seems to suffer with mites, mud fever and obesity i know which one I'd rather manage.

I think plainly the RSPCA are anti breeding, anti breed societies and wrt that have their own agenda.

Totally agree, tough, sound, good doers who live long lives.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Can I ask a daft question?
How come two of the horses were rehomed? Did these end up at a different charity?

HAPPA was the first rescue charity on the scene. They called in the RSPCA for reinforcements as there were too many equines for HAPPA to cope with. HAPPA did take in some animals, and some of these were PTS but that was on veterinary advice.

 

[PonyIAmNotFood]

Anyone know what happened to Harley? I'm sure I saw him when I went visiting a horse I adopted from the RSPCA in Yorkshire. He was very poor if it was him and we were warned not to go near his stable as he would lunge and bite.

I can also say that Cooper was lovely when we met him, very much seemed in it for the horses and was very good with the ones we saw him handle. He was honest with me about the one I was having and was talking about how he was rehabing another that came in at the same time as mine but wasn't doing so well. He seemed to genuinely care.

 

[SO1]

I think you may have misunderstood my point regarding the funding - charities can often appear to be wealthy but a lot of the funds will be restricted to spending in certain areas. It is really hard to get money for for core services a lot of high net worth individuals who donate their like their money to be spend in a certain way. Most charities are not funded by people slipping then £10 here or there but by wealthy people giving them a lot of money or big legacies. I have worked in the charity sector for over 30 years and during that time always charities have struggled to get money for core funding but usually ok for projects. We were once given a huge sum of money in a legacy but it had restrictions on it which meant it could only be used for improving the website.

I don't know who the main backers of the RSPCA are but there may be people who choose to donate because the RSPCA prosecute people or because of their stance on hunting and they only want their donations to be used in this area of work or they only want to support certain types of animals such as cats for example.

I think the RSPCA do need to have more field officers who have received a greater depth of training, they probably also need more places to take in and rehab rescues for all animals. They receive well over a million calls a year but have less than 300 inspectors. If over 80,000 of these calls are related to horses and they only have 10 inspectors with a special interest in horses that is a case load of 8000 per person if the equine specialists attend or are involved in each call about a horse.

I would not want to be an RSPCA inspector having to make difficult decisions every day about the best welfare for an animal having to take in to consideration costs in terms of treatment and re-homing. I expect they are now getting to the stage where they are getting more cases than they can manage properly and therefore sadly in some cases the easy option may be to PTS.

With regard to complaints about their services that also uses up staff time and complaints about their service is probably fairly low on their list of priorities unless of cause you are a major donor.

My concern is that Cooper Wilson made the decision - or at least advised the RSPCA what he, as a horse expert, thought....

I don't think the RSPCA has any funding issues, if they do they could stop bringing some ridiculous prosecutions often against the most vulnerable - A friend is a magistrate and rolls his eyes if you mention them and many of the prosecutions they bring.

/QUOTE]

 

[Alec Swan]

I think you may have misunderstood my point regarding the funding - charities can often appear to be wealthy but a lot of the funds will be restricted to spending in certain areas. It is really hard to get money for for core services a lot of high net worth individuals who donate their like their money to be spend in a certain way. Most charities are not funded by people slipping then £10 here or there but by wealthy people giving them a lot of money or big legacies. I have worked in the charity sector for over 30 years and during that time always charities have struggled to get money for core funding but usually ok for projects. We were once given a huge sum of money in a legacy but it had restrictions on it which meant it could only be used for improving the website.

……..

Do any of your, possibly accurate, observations excuse or explain-away the manner in which the rspca conducts itself?

Alec.

 

[Rollin]

Can anyone in the know, tell me more about the CBx mentioned, Coco and Frodo?

I know there was a well bred PURE Cleveland Bay colt called Frodo, I looked at him when I purchased our stallion. I contacted the breeder who thinks the horse called Frodo who was destroyed was actually a Shire Cross. Can anyone help and WHERE are all these passports?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Anyone know what happened to Harley? I'm sure I saw him when I went visiting a horse I adopted from the RSPCA in Yorkshire.

When did you see Harley? I don't think he has been listed as confirmed pts. Hope he made it.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

The RSPCA said there was a 'difference of opinion' with Mr Wilson about the suitability for rehoming of the horses he didn't want to shoot.'

……..

I now wonder if the rspca, with that wonderful facility, 'hindsight', may not have been better to have listened. Would that be how they'd view the situation? I'd me most surprised if they did! The rspca has no ears, or eyes either, from what will be obvious to most.

Alec.