RSPCA shoots 11 HEALTHY horses but claimed keep fees for months

[Jill Lloyd]

I believe that Peel gave the RSPCA the previous owners names and contact details. I would have thought that would be the RSPCA's first port of call?? Very sad.

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm wondering if, despite my constant and vociferous railing against the rspca, we shouldn't consider three points;

Firstly, the Mail has never yet, that I've seen, produced a story which will stand up to inspection, so there would be questions which they will probably refuse to answer.

Secondly, if the rspca have been 'claiming' expenses including veterinary care and stabling for horses which are already dead and have been dead for some while, just WHO were they claiming these expenses from?

Thirdly, and possibly the least palatable, is that re-homing of horses, except in rare cases, isn't and shouldn't be an option. The ongoing management of loan horses can be and all so often is a costly and time consuming business. However well intentioned, if the 'loaner' can't afford to buy their own horse, the chances are remote that they'll be able to care for one, properly and which was acquired as a freebie.

I am generally the sternest critic of the 'charity' concerned, and it would be very rare for me to offer them any support, except for this one point. There are far too many animal charities which are now being viewed and run as serious businesses, and not for the betterment of those animals which they would claim to support.

The rspca has been extant for many years, and it's generally my view that they have simply lost their way, thanks in no small way to corrupt management. Keeping unwanted horses alive for no other reason that we feel better about ourselves, is a sign of the times. Committed and responsible owners do the right thing for their equines and put them to sleep, if they have no market for them and if there is no alternative than to simply unload them upon a charity.

We have to face reality and face our responsibilities, and being led by a rag newspaper, isn't the way forward.

Alec.

 

[Evie91]

Don't think anyone involved in this has come out smelling of roses!
My question is; if so many of he horses were on loan, why did the owners not step in beforehand? Why wait until things are so bad RSPCA are involved?

 

[TGM]

Personally, I don't have a problem with horses that are "bright, alert and responsive" and not suffering from a life-threatening illness being PTS if necessary. I had an elderly mare put down when her worsening arthritis meant her quality of life was going rapidly downhill - however she was still 'bright, alert and responsive' and her arthritis wasn't life threatening. It is quite possible that some of these horses were found to have conditions which would prevent successful rehoming - one is stated as having a deformed foot due to a previous injury, so possibly could be chronically lame. Another was described as having a difficult temperament - obviously the Mail does not go into enough detail to make a judgement whether euthanasia was justified in this case. Just because a horse has good bloodlines and had a brilliant former career doesn't necessarily mean it might not have some issue that would make rehoming difficult.

What is more worrying is the allegations of financial misconduct and the fact that the real owners of the animals weren't traced - but the hoo ha over having the horses put down seems to be overshadowing these important issues.

It is clear that some members on here have a fuller understanding of the situation than is given in the Mail, so it would be great if they could answer the following questions to clarify the situation for those of us less informed:

* How many of the horses euthanized belonged to people other than Peel?
* Is there evidence that the RSPCA knew that all the animals didn't belong to Peel, or did she claim ownership of them all?
* How long before the horses were seized did any of the loaners visit the loaned animals - did any of them spot signs of neglect?

 

[Fenris]

Personally, I don't have a problem with horses that are "bright, alert and responsive" and not suffering from a life-threatening illness being PTS if necessary. I had an elderly mare put down when her worsening arthritis meant her quality of life was going rapidly downhill - however she was still 'bright, alert and responsive' and her arthritis wasn't life threatening. It is quite possible that some of these horses were found to have conditions which would prevent successful rehoming - one is stated as having a deformed foot due to a previous injury, so possibly could be chronically lame. Another was described as having a difficult temperament - obviously the Mail does not go into enough detail to make a judgement whether euthanasia was justified in this case. Just because a horse has good bloodlines and had a brilliant former career doesn't necessarily mean it might not have some issue that would make rehoming difficult.

What is more worrying is the allegations of financial misconduct and the fact that the real owners of the animals weren't traced - but the hoo ha over having the horses put down seems to be overshadowing these important issues.

It is clear that some members on here have a fuller understanding of the situation than is given in the Mail, so it would be great if they could answer the following questions to clarify the situation for those of us less informed:

* How many of the horses euthanized belonged to people other than Peel?
* Is there evidence that the RSPCA knew that all the animals didn't belong to Peel, or did she claim ownership of them all?
* How long before the horses were seized did any of the loaners visit the loaned animals - did any of them spot signs of neglect?

It is possible that there will be further revelations and actions related to this case. While I cannot tell you any more than has appeared in the media or been said in open court, perhaps this comment from the Mail site will help:

"chris, preston, 1 hour ago
As someone who has been involved in this case from the start I hasten to add from the side of the original owners and breeders of the horses and has sat through the harrowing court case, may I say here and now that the RSPCA Inspector assured me throughout the case the horses were HAPPY HEALTHY AND SAFE I enquired after the case to be told they HAD BEEN REHOMED AND WERE ALL SAFE AND WELL. They lied through the court case they lied afterwards............there are heartbroken original owners and breeders out there who all wanted their horses back and would have moved heaven and earth to get them back paying the RSPCA the keep fees and other cost to have them safe and home again. BUT NO they were MURDERED by the very organisation that was supposed to PROTECT them."

 

[ester]

I don't know TGM, as I have only dipped into the arabianlines threads and am not sure which were on loan, and which were owned by them but had previous owners and/or breeders that were concerned what had happened to them/would have had them back in an instant. - In which cases rehoming would have not have been difficult even if there were some issues.

I don't think that this situation was anything like that of having your mare PTS.

Alec I know what you mean about the mail but they are the ones that have this bit of the story. To be frank I found the whole of the rest of the story which has been going on for ages but hush hush because of the trial bad enough with regards to the conduct of the RSPCA and the AHS who seem to have failed their members in this instance. It seems to be only from the efforts of a some on arabianlines that the whereabouts of any of the live horses has been found out (at other equine rescue places) and the fate of those that didn't make it still hasn't been established. So if they haven't been tracked down at a rescue centre that means it is unknown if they were rehomed or dead.

 

[TGM]

The whole thing does sound very confusing and complex - perhaps it needs H&H to provide some factual and detached reporting so we can understand the case more clearly. Currently, the information available in the Mail and on the Internet seems high in hysteria and sensationalism, whereas if action is to be taken against the RSPCA some hard facts and evidence are needed.

 

[Sadika]

The RSPCA has handled this appallingly IMO. Sir Edward Garnier MP QC is calling for an urgent inquiry. The AHS has a Welfare Officer who was well aware of the situation and waiting to step in and help. She and the former owners/breeders and owners of the LOAN horses were champing at the bit to HELP as were AHS members ... but a. they did not know what was going on until the neglect had happened (Rachelle Peel was still blowing Templars trumpet on Arabian Lines etc when she was in fact neglecting horses) and b. when they knew of the neglect they were not allowed any details until a certain number of days after the court case was over ... and in fact the full details of what has happened to all the horses is still not formally known ... This morning's revelations in the Mail on Sunday has completely rocked everyone who knows of the Peels ... those horses would have been safe today had the RSPCA used the passport info etc ... instead for some reason best known to themselves all but 2 were shot way before the case even got going in court ... the 2 "survivors" are not known at the moment ...
A further horse was pts by a "charity" as they said he was "dangerous" - his breeders would have had him back in a flash had they known about him ... they are completely devastated.
The RSPCA need to explain themselves ... why they LIED, why they instructed the killings, why they messed up over vet treatments and stabling for horses they knew to be DEAD ...

 

[ester]

Why was AHS welfare officer waiting to step in, could they not have employed a bit more muscle??

 

[Penny Less]

Another passport fiasco then, they are not worth the money or paper they were written on

 

[cbmcts]

Even if we forget the fact that these horses legally belonged to other people and as a result, couldn't be signed over to the RSPCA, the Arab Horse world is renown for their rescue efforts - just look at how the posters on AL spring into action when there is a report of an Arab going through an auction. I have known more than one breeder who has taken horses back that they sold many years before and it does appear to be the norm for that to happen.

As soon as the news broke of the rescue/issues at the Peels, there were owners and breeders contacting the RSPCA to try and locate their horses and to offer homes either permanent or foster. There is no excuse for them not at least offering these horses, remembering that in this case they didn't have to hold them until after the trial. These people were directly lied to and the court was lied to by omission. This just isn't acceptable behaviour from anyone, let alone an organisation that presents themselves as the gold standard of animal welfare. I really hope - and would contribute - that one of the legal owners of the shot horses goes after the RSPCA through the courts.

I am going to write to my MP requesting that the police and the CPS take over the investigation and prosecution of animal cruelty cases as at least they are accountable to Parliament and the public. A charity is not accountable in the same way and if they wish to act as a quasi police force they need to be. Withholding donations is not enough to stop these arrogant organisations.

 

[Flame_]

Is it normal procedure to track breeders and former owners of neglected horses though? Once sold horses have no legal connection to them, do they?

 

[ester]

No but they didn't need to track them (they were at the door) and it removes the 'difficult to rehome' issue.

 

[cbmcts]

It it normal procedure to track breeders and former owners of neglected horses though? Once sold horses have no legal connection to them, do they?

Probably not - but they were contacted by owners (not former!) and breeders as soon as they story broke. Of course it's very possible that at least some of the horses had been shot by then - I don't know how long the seizure took to become public.

Remember, the RSPCA were still implying that these horses were alive and doing well to the AHS (which has a very active welfare department) until todays article - that is just dishonest.

 

[ester]

Yes, from AL

'Kat Hamlyn LIED through her teeth to Catherine and me she assured us all the way through that trial that the horses were SAFE HAPPY AND WELL, she told us they had all been REHOMED, she sat next to both of us and held my hand the day they showed that horrible video evidence, she even assured the judge in court ON OATH that the horses were safe and progressing well............she told me just last week they had been rehomed SHE LIED ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE TRIAL'

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

Alec I know what you mean about the mail but they are the ones that have this bit of the story. To be frank I found the whole of the rest of the story which has been going on for ages but hush hush because of the trial bad enough with regards to the conduct of the RSPCA and the AHS who seem to have failed their members in this instance. …….. .

See below.

……..

* How many of the horses euthanized belonged to people other than Peel?
* Is there evidence that the RSPCA knew that all the animals didn't belong to Peel, or did she claim ownership of them all?
* How long before the horses were seized did any of the loaners visit the loaned animals - did any of them spot signs of neglect?

I'm now recovering from a lengthy 'phone call from a friend who has direct experience of the 'goings-on' and who is appalled at and applies blame, indirectly perhaps, to all parties. Owners put horses out on trust, but the responsibility remains theirs however apparently plausible the loaner. My friend's view of the conduct of the rspca in this particular case, is unprintable, but with an incredible disregard for those who keep them in business, the rspca are skating on very thin ice. Were this an isolated case, that would be put down to individual incompetence. It isn't, the problem is systemic. I remain saddened that the rspca show complete disregard for public opinion, their only immediately available contact being available to those who wish to 'donate'.

TGM, to answer your questions, and this is only my understanding;

1* I'm not sure, but certainly there were those horses which were clearly not the property of Peel, and were on loan.

2* Apparently so, with no effort being made by the rspca to make contact with the owners and conversely, a refusal to do so. At no point in this sorry story did those horses which were not Peel's property, become the property of the rspca. The rspca are not a Government body, they have no rights beyond that of the common man and certainly none to confiscation.

3* A good question, and those who owned horses are not without blame, either because they were gullible, or because being unsure of their horse's future, they took the easy option and passed off the responsibility. It will be for the owners to decide for themselves whether they are victim or culpable. Harsh, but true.

I have no problem with putting down horses which have no future. Where I do have a problem is with a public funded body who display the most supreme arrogance and blatantly refuse to offer any level of justification, beyond their questionable statements which are clearly untrue.

My views remain the same regarding those of us who have horses, no further use for them, and which are of no value. 'Fostering' 'loaning' call it what you will, unless we are certain that we can monitor our 'loan', then we really do need to think again, and question why anyone wants a horse which is either of no use, or no value. I understand that PTS is a painful decision, but it would be an option which I'd bet that those who loaned their horses to Peel heartily wish that they'd taken. As Evie91 has said, no one comes out of this, blameless.

Alec.

 

[ester]

I don't think those on loan were loaned out instead of PTS, they were loaned out because they thought these people were reputable (and really did appear so) and were running a successful stud and eventing program and they were happy for them to join that program and continue crabbet lines.

 

[ester]

They duped a lot of people

We totally support the use of Arabs in sport horse breeding - and we event our pure bred Arabians.

Many years ago, I remember reading that a performance breeder used to add a dash of native pony blood to add the speed and agility. We've adopted the same approach but replaced the native pony with Arabian breeding.

Our pure bred mare, Taragun was made World Arabian Horse Organisation Horse of the Year for her eventing, partnered by our (then) 12 year old daughter. We were presented with the award by Tamarillo's owner (who also happens to be a senior committee member of the Arab Horse Society).

We also have a wonderful French bred Anglo, a 16.3, who has taken our daughter to JRN and who previously competed to 3* level and represented France and Italy.

This year, we started competing our pure bred stallion, Templars Orchestral Pearl - he's 15.3.

The Arabian horse is a wonderful breed. The bond with them has to be earned, but once formed, it is a life long partnership that will never fade and they will literally give their lives for you. It's one of the closest relationships people can ever experience.

I know I'm biased and I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise but after 20 years of people trying to dissuade me, I still believe that Arabian bloodlines are the holy grail in having the ability to add courage, talent, temperament, style and immeasurable amounts of love!

Magic104 - you learned something good today! Tannis and her family and their super-talented horses have the admiration and affection of everyone in the Arab-horse world, myself very much included.

 

[Sadika]

No - the court would not allow release of any details ... and still haven't ... shortly the time is up and there is a procedure to follow ...

 

[EstherYoung]

The horses that were put down by the rspca included:

Taz, who I believe to be "Taragun", winner of the coveted World Arabian Horse Organisation Trophy in 2008:*http://www.waho.org/Blog/taragun-united-kingdom-2008-waho-trophy-winner/ Nb I understand that accidents happen, but Taragun was a well mannered and very well travelled little mare, and it is not clear how she could have broken her leg travelling unless the transport was unsuitable.

Khoomi, a performance bred Arabian broodmare who was only on loan to the Peels; it would appear that the RSPCA made no attempt to contact or engage with her actual owners.

Cresh, who I believe to be "Last Crescendo", a purebred Arabian stallion with rare and sought after bloodlines: he was 99.97% Crabbet Arabian, meaning that 99.97% of his lineage can be traced back to the original Arabian imports to the UK.

Sparky, full name Vlacq Tinwe, bred by Vlacq Stud - an excellent and much loved child's pony and both his previous homes would have had him back in a heartbeat

Pip, full name "Against all Odds", a performance bred Anglo Arab by the premium stallion "Djammal"

Heron, full name "Heron de la Forge", a French bred anglo arab and successful affiliated eventer.

Those are just the ones I've managed to identify as an outsider.

There was also Mouse, the mare that most of the successful neglect charges centred on. Mouse was on loan, and her fate is unknown I believe.

 

[Jackiedo]

The horses were not unwanted "difficult" horses loaned out to the Peels. Because they maintained such a high profile and promoted the Arabian as a performance animal rather than just a pretty face, it meant a lot to people who wanted to raise the profile of the breed and get them out there doing a job, in the public eye and they also went back to basics to promote part breds. Because of this, and because they were seen regularly at shows in person, people let them have horses that they would not have let go anywhere under normal circumstances, believing they were doing the breed as a whole good service. Horses that they intended one day to have back home once they had done their bit. I met them personally and they were charming people, both of them, their Setters accompanied them and they were in great shape and seemed much loved. RP told me that she was writing a book about the Arabian concentrating on Performance lines, and expressed an interest in my colt who was from a particular female line., to go on and promote as a sports pony stallion. I did not feel that my colt was big enough to make it economic to keep him entire so before he was homed I had him gelded. And yes, he too is on loan, as a 5 year old professionally broken sports pony gelding I did not sell him, or try to sell him, not because he would not have been impossible to sell or for me to keep but because I wanted to be able to offer him a place of safety should he ever need to come home, and did not want to lose title. This is a different story to the for loan I am pregnant, have no money, am running off with the milkman type of ads sometimes seen, they were loans from people who wanted the world to see what Arabs can do, and who wanted to offer long term protection to their horses. Remember, all this time we were seeing pictures, proud posts etc. it's so hard to understand HOW this happened

 

[Fenris]

A question for those who are finally beginning to accept that the RSPCA might have lied or presented false evidence. Are you still absolutely certain that every single person who has been prosecuted and has said that the RSPCA lied, bullied, concealed evidence or presented misleading evidence was wrong?

Remember that sometimes it is difficult for defence vets to obtain access to seized animals. If the animals are missing, whether dead or sold, the defence case is weakened.

If the prosecution has been shown to be so untrustworthy in at least aspects of this case, should their evidence in the rest of the case be called into doubt? In cases like this should there be a retrial with permission given to change pleas if deemed necessary in the light of new evidence (or lack of it)?

 

[EstherYoung]

Fenris, if anything the RSPCA's inadequacies here have meant that the prosecution was not as strong as it could have been.... No-one is doubting that there was a serious issue with neglect at the farm, that much has been proven in a court of law. Horses died from neglect before the RSPCA got their mitts on them. The heartbreaking thing, here, is that the horses that survived, and for which keen and willing homes were available, were put down by their 'rescuers'.

 

[ozpoz]

Well,I am truly shocked at this. But not, sadly, surprised. I would add to the voices calling for an investigation into the workings of the RSPCA.
How very,very sad for the owners of these horses. : (

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If anyone knows what happened to my grey's paternal half brother, please let me know. He's the appy X arab on the link here.

http://www.gkjarabians.co.uk/id11.html


ETA this was posted on AL if anyone wants to email their support for an enquiry into this sorry mess.

Here is an email address for Sir Edward Garnier the Conservative MP who wants to open and enquiry into what went on and wants answers. please do write to him and offer your support plenty of people doing the same.

office@harboroughconservatives.com

 

[Bigbenji]

I put this on the thread running in the Tack Room as well:

The guy who put them down, according to that daily mail article, his name rings a bell.

Is he the same man who shot that horse at the g-g center?

 

[EstherYoung]

One and the same, Bigbenji.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Not sure what g-g centre is, but to have horses with a stables run by a horse slaughterman, must be pretty dubious thinking, there must be other places.
Perhaps no others want to have the RSPCA "cast offs"?
If the RSPCA have this problem, they need to have a suitable facility, WHICH IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, not a place where people can't see what is going on.

 

[EstherYoung]

Bonkers: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?680347-Facebook-Horse-shot-by-livery-owner

 

[Bigbenji]

One and the same, Bigbenji.

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse. Think he needs investigating as seems to be very trigger happy.

Poor horses. No words for the owners who had loaned the Peels their horses only to find that's how they met their fate. Disgusting.