RSPCA shoots 11 HEALTHY horses but claimed keep fees for months

[SO1]

What she did is not the owners fault. I expect the owners checked the living conditions at her yard before leaving the horses in her care and the horses they saw looked good and well cared for otherwise they would not have left the horses with her.

I just think if that had been my pony and I had not gone and checked frequently that he was ok whilst on loan then I would blame myself for what happened, my pony my responsibility. [Disclaimer I am not saying the owners did not check on the horses they may have done and neglect happened quickly, or they may not have been able to check due to ill health and did not know anyone who they could ask to do so on their behalf and in this case they did their best}

However it appears that she treated these horses as commodities and once they were no longer of us to her they were left to rot. How is her evilness the owners fault?

 

[Alec Swan]

Not sure about this as I think there is dual responsibility and under the animal welfare act if a horse is on loan as "a person who owns an animal shall always be regarded as being a person who is responsible for it"

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/section/3

Interesting, but when the Keeper is clearly guilty of neglect or of disregard of an animal's welfare and so the Laws and responsibilities of such care would be outside of the owners reasonable efforts and daily routine, and were the owner not present (as in a permanent loan situation), then the Keeper would be the one deemed responsible, I'd have thought. I'll agree that no owner is ever absolved of all responsibility regarding the care of their possessions, in this case horses, but that is more of a moral issue than one of Law, I feel.

Alec.

 

[Leo Walker]

I'm quite tough and pragmatic about the PTS of horses that might not have a decent chance of rehoming, but this whole thing brought me to tears. These were horses that had people who desperately wanted them back, quality, well bred horses who had breeder back up and the bloody RSPCA shot them anyway

I dont know what can be done, but something needs to be! I had an horrific run in with the RSPCA due to a very nasty set of circumstances which basically boiled down to my YO wanting my boy, physically threatening me, to the point I had the police involved, and having a friend who was an inspector. I have NEVER found an organisation so bloody difficult to deal with! I had police reports, vet reports and photos backing up what I was saying and they couldnt have cared less!

They also told me outright lies and posted a note through my door saying my boy had been seized due to abandonment. He hadnt been abandoned and I was visiting him three times a day and taking date stamped photos! He also hadn't been seized! I am almost certain they gave me that notice so I would think he wasnt there, and wouldn't visit, in order for them to seize him and hand him over to her. I am STILL 3 yrs later waiting for the inspector to bloody well call me back! I did get a lot of calls asking for donations, until I lost my ***** and kicked off!

Its a much longer story than that, but it was horrific! They are a bloody disgrace!

 

[hackneylass2]

It's interesting to note that one strange thing is cropping up here... I wonder where, or to whom the 'boarding fee costs' went?...and I also wonder, was the slaughterman just a 'hired gun' so to speak, or does he utiliise carcasses?...some folks have fingers in many pies, some wildly unrelated!

The whole thing stinks.

 

[EstherYoung]

heron was 20
last crescendo 19
taragun 23
phaaraoh 9
nancy 22

though as the owner of a fit, functional 22 year old I'm not sure I see that as aged.

As you say, Khoomi was 9 and also Against All Odds (a well bred eventer who had been in pro training before he was neglected) was 8 when he was put down by the rspca. So a range of ages.

The Peels are absolutely the most responsible here - let's not forget that horses died from neglect in their care too, and if they had not neglected the horses none of this would have happened. The rspca handling comes under the heading of "adding insult to injury" - the deaths of the additional horses, the lies to the interested parties. The owners, breeders and previous owners of the other horses involved in this case (not featured in the mail article) still haven't been informed of their fates, either. The very least the rspca can do now is put the other owners, breeders and previous owners out of their misery, even if that is to tell them that their horses didn't make it. Or are they about to find out what happened to their horses on the pages of a reactionist national newspaper too?

 

[ester]

Actually the would be their ages now, so you can probably take a year off most.

I think that it is a moot point anyway from the rehoming point of view.

 

[Equi]

I too am not against pts for a lot of rescue horses who probably just don't have a great outcome, but i think they do this to get in the news no matter what. If they can't get publicity because of the condition of the animal, shoot it and get the publicity anyway. There will always be the nuts who rise to their defence and donate more that month. Any publicity and that...

 

[DD]

CAN PEOPLE PLEASE EMAIL ann.green.d@gmail.com if they loaned a horse to the Peels. see Arab Horses uk fb page for more details if required.

 

[DD]

http://www.edwardgarnier.co.uk/ also can people [everyone] email Sir Edward Garnier QC MP [ he also has a fb page]. He is going to look into the issue of the RSPCA shooting the horses.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Not horse related, but a short while ago Wirral RSPCA posted a photo of a GSD they had rescued. This dog clearly had an ear tattoo and many GSD breeders commented that the RSPCA should contact the National Dog Tattoo register and they would be able to identify the breeder who would no doubt want to help rehome the dog. All these comments were ignored and as far as I am aware the RSPCA have still not attempted to trace the dogs tattoo, would go against their constant slagging off of breeders I suppose.

 

[Alec Swan]

http://www.edwardgarnier.co.uk/ also can people [everyone] email Sir Edward Garnier QC MP [ he also has a fb page]. He is going to look into the issue of the RSPCA shooting the horses.

Done and thank you for the prompt.

I would encourage everyone who feels strongly enough to write to Sir Edward, and offer their support and their clear salient points. I've said it before and will continue; 'We need an RSPCA, now more so than ever, but not the existing incumbents who direct a charity which appears to have no regard for either the Law, common sense, or those over whom they assume authority'.

Alec.

 

[jezabell]

I hate the RSPCA, prevent cruelty to animals. Yet that is what they have done shot them is that not cruel. It dam well is in my eyes. I would never ever give them a penny. All they do is put animals down which have a right to live. Those poor animals I am crying I can not believe what they have done. That evil barbaric thing who pulled the trigger. I HATE HIM. How any one can work for them I will never know. The RSPCA want taking to court over this. Those poor animals.

 

[Fenris]

Not horse related, but a short while ago Wirral RSPCA posted a photo of a GSD they had rescued. This dog clearly had an ear tattoo and many GSD breeders commented that the RSPCA should contact the National Dog Tattoo register and they would be able to identify the breeder who would no doubt want to help rehome the dog. All these comments were ignored and as far as I am aware the RSPCA have still not attempted to trace the dogs tattoo, would go against their constant slagging off of breeders I suppose.

The problem here is that it touches onto a quite different campaign that the RSPCA have running. Micro-chipping. Not going to go into the full ins and outs of the issue as it doesn't really belong in this thread, but in summary the RSPCA opposed the use of tattoos or even DNA profiling as a means of permanent ID for an animal, even though there are all sorts of issues with failure of micro-chips, migration within the body, irritation and disease, failure of authorities to scan, privacy, and of course now the increasing numbers of animals where someone, be it a thief or an owner who doesn't want to be traced, has cut or attempted to cut the chip out of the animal. Had the GSD in question had a mircro-chip then it would have been wall to wall publicity to show how everyone should micro-chip. The real issue of chips for the RSPCA is that they want a full register of everyone who owns any animal and where they can find them. But as I say, another issue for another thread.

 

[Fenris]

Several people have raised the issue of culpability of owners for horses on loan. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 is very clear. An owner remains responsible for everything that is done to or happens to their animal when in the care of another. The owner should monitor, ensure that the person providing a service is competent and trustworthy, and do whatever else is reasonable to ensure the safety and wellbeing of their animal.

See S.4(2) of the AWA below. The problem is with (c), deciding what is reasonable in all the circumstances. Would you fancy your chances arguing against the pernickety RSPCA? Every case I have dealt with has either had the owner in court as a (sometimes reluctant) prosecution witness, the owner has signed the animals in question over (in circumstances some would describe as 'duress') or the owner has been proscuted too.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45

4Unnecessary suffering

(2)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he is responsible for an animal,

(b)an act, or failure to act, of another person causes the animal to suffer,

(c)he permitted that to happen or failed to take such steps (whether by way of supervising the other person or otherwise) as were reasonable in all the circumstances to prevent that happening, and

(d)the suffering is unnecessary.

 

[Fenris]

Fenris, if anything the RSPCA's inadequacies here have meant that the prosecution was not as strong as it could have been.... No-one is doubting that there was a serious issue with neglect at the farm, that much has been proven in a court of law. Horses died from neglect before the RSPCA got their mitts on them. The heartbreaking thing, here, is that the horses that survived, and for which keen and willing homes were available, were put down by their 'rescuers'.

It is far more complex that that. There are many reasons why this came about and you are right that the bottom line is that these horses were failed when they arrived in the care of an organisation that should have provided a place of safety. Now please everyone, ask yourselves why that failure happened.

It happened because the RSPCA has been allowed to trample over people's civil and legal rights for far too long. They have been able to get away with doing this because every time anyone raises the issue of a wrong done by the RSPCA, whether to a human or an animal, their supporters leap in to protect them, often with the claim that it doesn't matter if the rights of animal abusers are breached. The result of course is that everyone's rights are at risk, including those of the animals they are supposed to protect.

It happened because there is nowhere for people to take complaints about charities except the Charities Commission whose remit excludes the subject matter of most complaints. The SHG has long campaigned for the creation of a Charities Ombudsman who could deal with that wide range of complaints and bring recalcitrant charities to heel. Until there is proper supervision and control of the charity sector charities can effectively do whatever they want because individuals simply can not afford to enforce their rights in the very expensive civil courts. Don't even think of entering the minefield of bringing a private prosecution as an individual with no legal help.

It happened because those public authorities who actually have powers in animal welfare cases, the police and local authorities, have shirked those responsibilites and have been quite happy to allow animal welfare to be dealt with on the cheap by an organisation that parliament chose not to empower. And of course, the CPS has failed time and again to quality control RSPCA prosecutions except in the rare occasions that hunts were involved or the SHG helped the defendants step by step through the nightmare of asking the CPS to look at a prosecution, starting with the CPS denying they have any right to intervene in an RSPCA prosecution becuse they are a 'prosecuting authority' - Wrong!

It happened because prosecutors are effectively rewarded for breaching the regulations that govern a prosecution in the UK. In the US if a warrant in incorrect or a seizure or raid is flawed then the case is thrown out. This works to ensure that investigators and prosecutors are held to account. It forces them to do things in the correct manner. In the UK it is rare for there to be any comeback for a prosecutor or investigator. the court will accept the wrong doing and more often than not allow the evidence that has been unlawfully obtained. The result is that dodgy prosecutors have nothing to lose and everything to gain - something they learn very quickly.

It has happened because the courts will not enforce people's right to visit and have expert inspection of animals that are in the possession of the RSPCA. We have lost count of the number of cases in which a person about to give evidence is given the devastating news that the animal they have been fighting for has been dead for several months and no-one bothered to tell them. A nasty psychological trick to ensure that the person is unfit to give evidence while grieving for their loss, but of course the courts don't care and the RSPCA sits there smirking.

It has happened because of the willingness of judges to accept that the RSPCA mean well and so whatever they do should be excused. In the case we are discussing the judge believed that there had simply been an error in accounting. And so it goes on in every case. If the very first case the SHG had been involved in where the accounting was 'in error' had resulted in action from the courts or even strong criticism, it is possible that someone would have thought again before getting rid of these horses in this manner.

It is the failure to hold the RSPCA accountable that is putting animals like these horses at risk. You can all condemn the people who were prosecuted, but if they had not done a lot of digging and fighting in this case none of this would be in the public domain.

 

[madlady]

Whilst I desperately wish that this had never happened lets hope that the horse owners within the UK can use this to get some real changes.

I have long believed that the RSPCA are worse than useless when it comes to horses and that another welfare organisation should be appointed as the 'go to' place for equine welfare (and other) issues. An organisation that has it's own places to take 'rescued' horses to and that has an understanding of horses in general. I have yet to come across an RSPCA officer who has the first clue about how to deal with a well horse, let alone one that has been neglected or mistreated.

What the RSPCA have done here is beyond belief and beyond justification. There were owners and breeders lined up to take these horses and yet, with no communication or clear justification they were destroyed.

I would dearly love to know why but I doubt anyone within the RSPCA would be honest enough to answer that question.

The situation is an absolute disgrace - I just hope that there is now enough evidence to show that this organisation should no longer have anything to do with horses.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

"Fenris" you have summed the situation up exceedingly well.

Words just fail me in all this, they really do.

I would add, "it has happened because the RSPCA have got too fat and complacent through well-meaning but misplaced donations from people who are genuinely seeking to improve the lot of mistreated animals, yet that money is going into their coffers and maintaining the corporate image rather than being used for the true reason it was donated in the first place".

plus "it has happened because the RSPCA have been given far too much power, and lack the responsibility to manage that power effectively and compassionately".

Shocking, truly shocking. Words fail me.

It can only be hoped that the average Joe Public punter and supporter of the RSPCA may now truly see them for what they are in all of this. Please let us hope this will be the result then those poor horses have not died in vain.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

http://www.edwardgarnier.co.uk/ also can people [everyone] email Sir Edward Garnier QC MP [ he also has a fb page]. He is going to look into the issue of the RSPCA shooting the horses.

done.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Never happen, what would the Labour Party do without the vast funds the RSPCA donate.

How on earth can the Labour party, who are not in Governement possibly have any real influence over what happens to the RSPCA?

The absolute worst part of this, imo, is the fraud that appears to have been perpetrated by claiming costs for caring for horses which had already been pts.

Yes those horses which coud be proved to belong to a 3rd party should have been returned to their owners but maybe if those owners had been rather more vigilant this case would not have got to the point of involving RSPCA. Faults all round imo.

 

[Alec Swan]

Excellent responses from Fenris, the mad lady and the one with 'tite' jods!

There needs to be a cohesive move by those who are so well aware of how inept and on occasion blatantly dishonest the rspca are, and force the recalcitrant directors from their lofty and self satisfying seats, and back in to the world, one to which those who recognise a need for their services, will lend their support.

Perhaps we need a SPCA, and one which whilst not just funded by real people, is staffed and managed by those who aren't voted in by a council who's reson-detre isn't self protection. Are the existing rspca any better than fifa? Not from here they aren't.

Alec.

 

[Tiddlypom]

We need a well run and healthy RSPCA more then ever. This case paints them in the most appalling light.

My dealings with them have been good. I have previously posted about fostering one of their 'worthless' cobs. A former colleague's husband left a well paid farm manager's job to become a RSPCA inspector.

I feel so sorry for the hardworking, honest foot soldiers who strive so hard for animal care under the RSPCA banner. They deserve much better.

 

[ycbm]

Never happen, what would the Labour Party do without the vast funds the RSPCA donate.

What's your source for this information, I can't find anything online about RSPCA funds being used to donate to the Labour Party?. PAL, an organisation headed by someone who is/was also an RSPCA director, yes, but that is not the same as charitable donations to the RSPCA being diverted into Labour coffers.

It's clear the RSPCA has gone badly astray. It should never have been allowed to turn itself into the animal police And 80,000 spent on an animal war memorial, what's that about, before thinking about 16 million on a new HQ.

Is there anything anyone knows that we can do to try to get animal welfare prosecution removed from this corrupt organisation?

 

[Alec Swan]

http://www.edwardgarnier.co.uk/ also can people [everyone] email Sir Edward Garnier QC MP [ he also has a fb page]. He is going to look into the issue of the RSPCA shooting the horses.

……..

Is there anything anyone knows that we can do to try to get animal welfare prosecution removed from this corrupt organisation?

Yes. Lend your support to the move by Sir Edward Garnier, which with luck, may have the effect of change. That and lobby the CPS and your own MP.

Alec.

 

[fatpiggy]

I hate the RSPCA, prevent cruelty to animals. Yet that is what they have done shot them is that not cruel. It dam well is in my eyes. I would never ever give them a penny. All they do is put animals down which have a right to live. Those poor animals I am crying I can not believe what they have done. That evil barbaric thing who pulled the trigger. I HATE HIM. How any one can work for them I will never know. The RSPCA want taking to court over this. Those poor animals.

How can you pour so much venom on the slaughterman? Its hardly his fault. He was asked to do a job and he did it. A person I know is licenced. He keeps a small-holding in the back-end of nowhere and obtained a licence so that he didn't have to put his animals through the long and rough journey to a slaughterhouse. A nicer, more caring person you couldn't wish to meet. There is clearly a shortage of such people as during the last Foot and Mouth outbreak, while vets put down young/baby animals by lethal injection, much of the shooting of adult stock was done by Army butchers. I saw one of the slaughtermen crying his eyes out at what he had to do.

WHere were the owners of these animals which were apparently on loan? I can't believe that word didn't leak out about the conditions on the farm. Did they not go and do regular checks for themselves, however good the name of the breeders was. Plenty of so-called caring people have been caught out in the last few years being nothing of the sort. We had a chap prosecuted locally a few years back, a pillar of local horse world, Master of Hunt, breeder, high-flying show judge - prosecuted for neglect of animals on his property and banned from keeping. A year or so later I heard he was still keeping horses, but claimed they were his son's animals.

I'm no lover of the RSPCA having seen them in (in)action 40 years ago and more recently when they were called to two ponies where I kept my horse at the time. But I'm quite sure that there are some very caring and hard-working people amongst them. No doubt they get beaten down by those above them though.

 

[Rollin]

heron was 20
last crescendo 19
taragun 23
phaaraoh 9
nancy 22

though as the owner of a fit, functional 22 year old I'm not sure I see that as aged.

I had my first horse, a much loved old darling pts a month ago. He was 36 years old. I have pics of him aged 35 doing ride and lead with my 4 year old Shagya filly, he filled her with confidence and she hacked alone within two weeks of backing. I purchased another old horse as a companion, aged 20 years, he lived and worked till 27 years of age.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

Is there anything anyone knows that we can do to try to get animal welfare prosecution removed from this corrupt organisation?

Isn't there the facility of an e/petition which feeds directly in to Downing Street (supposedly), and upon which our Government assures us that they will give consideration, should it have sufficient support?

Alec.

 

[minesadouble]

Not sure what g-g centre is, but to have horses with a stables run by a horse slaughterman, must be pretty dubious thinking, there must be other places.
Perhaps no others want to have the RSPCA "cast offs"?
If the RSPCA have this problem, they need to have a suitable facility, WHICH IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, not a place where people can't see what is going on.

I have no idea if this has any relevance, however I am not convinced the 'slaughterman' in question is licenced?? He shot a livery at our yard and as I had never heard of him I googled him and couldn't come up with anything regarding licenced slaughter. I stand to be corrected as I do not know this for a fact just could not find any evidence to support him being licenced.

This story does not surprise me at all unfortunately, I have no idea what the agenda of the RSPCA is, however, as an organisation I feel animal welfare is very much secondary to them.

 

[Fenris]

Isn't there the facility of an e/petition which feeds directly in to Downing Street (supposedly), and upon which our Government assures us that they will give consideration, should it have sufficient support?

Alec.

We have run petitions for a public inquiry into the activities of the RSPCA and for a charities ombudsman. it is very difficult to get sufficient signatures to trigger a government debate (100,000) or even for a government response (10,000).

But please, please, start a new petition as it can only add to the pressure on the RSPCA.

 

[Alec Swan]

The only need for a licence is when an animal is euthanised, and is when the person carrying out the act is doing so for 'profit', i.e. being paid.

To support fatpiggy's post, shooting the messenger makes for little sense.

Alec.

 

[ester]

Re conditions at the yard and the fact there were dead horses, no I don't think anything did leak out or anybody suspect anything as they were still posting on forums etc at the time. They were very knowledgeable and charming by all counts. The issues with the horses were reported by walkers.

he is licenced I iirc
this is his history
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dump-body-owner-s-garden-unpaid-bill-30.html
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...s_legal_action_over_shooting_pregnant_horses/