RSPCA Welcomes Electric Shock Collar Ban In Wales

Not good for us, we use them on 2 of our dogs. I do hope they don't extend it to England!!
We use them on ours to stop them attacking our sheep, we lost approx 5 sheep in the last 2 years thanks to our own dogs.... if we are banned from using them we will have to seriously consider putting 2 of our dogs down which will be devastating!!

Rather ironic that all the adverts on the side of the link are for dog training collars!!
 
I think it is a huge shame they have banned them in wales and hope as foxfilly says they dont extend the ban. I dont use one myself ( only as never needed to ) but have seen them used and i think used correctly they are a fantastic training aid.
 
I am a big softie with animals but do think these devices have a place if used correctly. Our Ridgeback used to bolt after hares and would disappear for hours and would cross main roads and railway lines on his travels. I know we could have put him on a lead but that would be not sufficient exercise for him, we live in the country. We used one and it stopped this habit very quickly, he hasnt had it on for 2 years now but do feel that if it hadnt been used then he would have had to be either on a lead all his life and chained up or would have caused a major accident.
It is the same as everything, it depends how they are used and by whom.
 
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Thank goodness. Bloody awful things.

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Just out of interest have you seen one used correctly?
Or tried on on your own arm to see how it feels?

Many people just assume that as they are called shock collars they give a big shock... NOT TRUE!!
 
Yes it can be argued that these collars can be an effective training tool but as with everything it depends on the person using them - and there lies the problem.

Not withstanding the collars being used with malice - instead of being used as a training tool and then removed (as in hollyf’s case) they are being used instead of training.

The same as in the horse world, the more gadgets we depend on the less ability and skills developed for working with, training and understanding behavioral motivation.

Foxfolly just out of interest (hypothetically) why would you put your dogs down. Why would you not re home them?

Thank you for pointing out the Google ads, they have been removed.
 
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Thank goodness. Bloody awful things.

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Just out of interest have you seen one used correctly?
Or tried on on your own arm to see how it feels?

Many people just assume that as they are called shock collars they give a big shock... NOT TRUE!!

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Yep, have used them myself - although admit to not trying one on the arm.

Nothing beats good old fashioned training though imo.
 
I have them on my rotties and imo they are invaluable. They keep them on my property which extends to approx 8 acres and it means they can have the run of the place and i have complete peace of mind. Training needs to be done correctly in the first place and the dog learns the boundaries and hears the warning beep. It's not a c ase of banging the collar on and letting them hurt themselves til they learn. I spent many hours training my dogs and use the collars because of the area they have to roam in and the rep that these dogs have.
 
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It's legal to hit children too.

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Ah, now that I have no problem with
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Oh for god sake. I wish they would put more time and effort into stopping real cruelty. Next they'll ban electric fences for Horses.

I used to work at a SJ yard where they used the electric fence and collar thing for the Dogs. It was a godsend. All dogs may quite possibly, if they have their mind elsewhere, ignore vocal commands, but not this. Plus, it doesn't cause discomfort if they stay on the right side. Kind of like electric Horse fencing!! I had to laugh at the alternative 'citronella spray collar'. How is that more humane??? I've zapped myself many a time on a fence, yeah it's a bit 'ouch' but a lot better than a facefull of fly spray!!! These collars aren't that powerful, I've tried one on my wrist and it wasn't as bad as an electric fence.
 
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Yes it can be argued that these collars can be an effective training tool but as with everything it depends on the person using them

Foxfolly just out of interest (hypothetically) why would you put your dogs down. Why would you not re home them?



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I totally agree with you regarding the incorrect use, in the wrong hands they could really distress and mentally scar a dog for life.....but surely no more than beating or kicking it, I am sure the sort of person who would use a collar incorrectly would use something else if they didn't have a collar!!

In regards to rehoming we did seriously consider it, last time it happened, but it would be very difficult to rehome a Rottweiler or a GSD X Dobi that has killed sheep, although both are angels in all other ways... if it came to the crunch obviously we would do our best to find new homes but we both feel we could only rehome them to someone we knew or at least someone reccommended by a friend. We would have a huge resposibility to do the right thing with what could be described as dangerous dogs. I'm just not sure how many people would want the responsibility of taking them on!!
I used to work at a vets and have known of dogs PTS as they killed a chicken and some people say as soon as they have tasted blood they could attack anything!
The GSD X Dobi was already a rescue dog when he came to me, took a long time to settle and is now very content here, he is very sensitive and I can't even put him into kennels as he hates it so to send him to a rehoming centre just wouldn't be fair on him.

I did try the old fashioned training on them but unfortunately once they have a taste for it its very difficult to break the habit. Both can be very stubbourn when they want to be!! Neither are distressed in any way when they have the collars on and ours works with a bleeper too so 99% of the time they just get beeped when they ignore being called, which since getting the collars is actually very rare, they are both happy but much better behaved dogs than they were!!
I have taken the collar off for long periods on the GSD but now just keep it on him and he rarely even gets bleeped.
He was so bad, that I got the collar as a last resort before giving up on him. He would run off at any oportunity and had crossed main roads, gone off across other peoples land. If I hadn't got the collar I think he would have either been run over himself or ended up causing and accident, or even beeen shot by another farmer!!
 
Agree..these collars have saved alot of dogs being p.t.s....or rehomed...I often wonder when people say..."why not rehome"....where they think the endless amounts of good homes come from.
I think...thats just more of a case of out of sight out of mind
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or rather in an over crowded rescue, center, tied to a kennel or a yellow body bad
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....surely people cannot think passing a dog on to god know where...... is better than a few zaps of an electric collar
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Agree..these collars have saved alot of dogs being p.t.s....or rehomed...I often wonder when people say..."why not rehome"....where they think the endless amounts of good homes come from.
I think...thats just more of a case of out of sight out of mind
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or rather in an over crowded rescue, center, tied to a kennel or a yellow body bad
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....surely people cannot think passing a dog on to god know where...... is better than a few zaps of an electric collar
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My question to Foxfolly was hypothetical because I was genuinely interested the reasoning behind the statement - and I appreciate the effort Foxfolly went to in the reply. Your belief that "people" (or did you just mean me) think there is an endless supply of good homes is I believe a generalization. I foster dogs looking for homes so ‘passing a dog onto God knows where is not a reality. If you believe putting a dog down as opposed to rehoming is the answer, then with respect it is the puppy farms and indiscriminate breeders, not the rehomers that you should focus on. Slow the problem down at source.

Thanks Fox Folly for your reply and I agree banning electric collars will not stop anyone being cruel if that is their intention.

Re electric collars though I think there is a difference between the freedom fence type of set up and the collars remotely controlled by the handler. Remote controlled are the ones that have the potential for the greatest abuse, not only on dogs but also children.
 
I think the ban is a death sentence for many dogs and oppose it. Why not a middle way of restricting use to trainers or those living in rural areas where there is a need to use these methods as last resort.

My Dobie had 3 weeks residential dog training (no elec collar) and they made no progress whatsoever with his chase instincts with livestock. We live surrounded by livestock. Thank god we have enough land and scraped together the money to 6ft fence over 4 acres so he can run free within that fence. We havent used an electric collar but we dont want the 4 acres lovely tho it is to be the rest of his lifes boundary!

We use electric fence to keep horses in and that works fine and would certainly consider either boundary or training version of the elec collar for the dog, but solely so that our dog can have a better life!

I hope England and Scotland do NOT follow suit.
 
Hi.bit off subject here but a response to puppy farms and indiscrimate breeders.

Think I and everybody else has heard the word puppy farm.exactly what is a puppy farm? how many dogs etc do you need to operate a puppy farm?...

and indescriminate breeders wouldn't breed if people didn't buy. If breeding puppies wasn't financially viable, then nobody would breed at all.so, just who is good enough to breed and who isn't?...

Also, dogs that end up down the rehoming route often have genuine unforseen circumstances for being rehomed..not all come from indescriminate breeders.....

Anybody who ever bred any pups will tell you what liars some people are when they come to see a litter.they will often tell you anything cos they want a puppy right now.and it becomes a battle to get one if you tell them its not a good idea.

Not being a wench here...would just like a bit of clarity.
 
I don't need to me reminded who to focus on...with 30+ dogs to rehome....I do think the primary blame sits with the breeder, however the dumb arse purchaser that decided 6 months down the line they cannot cope, they are having a baby, they did not think the breed grew that big, they cannot cope with the dogs behaviour
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I don't think breeders held a gun to their heads and forced them to buy and as mentioned aove...people will lie through their teeth to get what they want
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But...I also think...if there is even a small possibility of just one dog ending up in a rehoming situation or used as a breeding machine then thats too much of a risk and for me a good enough reason not to breed.
However there are breedes that state no breed regulations and a returns poliy...and they are not always adhered to...another reason for (me) not to do it.
Back to topic
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My "rehome" it view was not aimed at you...I see this option mentioned frequently, and not just on here......peope need to understand their is not enough good/responsible homes to pass the animal on too, and if there is a way to sort the problem and keep the dog from being passed from pillar to post( which IMO...is far worse for the dog and creates no end of problems.

Even with rescue and rehoming, with contracts and home checks you can not be 100% these animals are being cared for the way the prospective adoptee describes during the homing process...but atleast we know they are going to be pets and not breeding machines, and are always chipped to our rescue.
I also did not say I believe a dog is better PTS than re-homed
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although in some circumstances it is a better or more responsible action.
 
Puppy farms are in general over crowded breeding environment, where there are 3 or more litters being breed at a time from what would be classed as popular sellers, no health tests, hip scores e,t,c, no paper work and generally sold way to young to make way for the next batch, with the parent dog rarely seeing the light of day with little social skills, and breed from every heat, and often in poor condition
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just any old pet put to any old pet and sold to anyone for a cut down price or even delivered like pizza to the purhasers door.
 
Hi. I know of a couple of breeders who have a no breed policy on their pups......and a return to the breeder for rehoming etc should it not work out...people give them the dog back, they then sell it on and pass any monies less expenses back to the original purchaser......boomerang pups or what?.and the original rarely gets any money back at all.

I agree its a terrible problem all these unwanted dogs etc......and I agree some would be better off PTS than keep being passed from pillar to post and picking up more problems along the way.

While pedigree pups command such high prices and silly people more than willing to pay, its never going to end.

Its a pity we can't have some legislation here for any person who breeds a pup...or manadatory neutering of all pet dogs from age 6 months unless a relevant breeding licence is obtained....but I can't ever see that coming into effect.

sorry you have so many dogs needing re homing.all at one time bred by somebody.
 
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and indescriminate breeders wouldn't breed if people didn't buy. If breeding puppies wasn't financially viable, then nobody would breed at all.so, just who is good enough to breed and who isn't?...

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Proper breeders DONT breed for the cash.They are the ones good enough to breed.
I have yet to meet a breeder who loves the breed and their dogs say" I could use some extra cash,better pump a litter out",plenty of "normal" pet owners do just that...
I'm not a breeder and never have any intention of being so,but my family have always brough dogs good enough to breed from(ie,good lines-at least every other dog in family danes ped. is a champion).
We dont buy them as potential breeding stock,but to know we are going to a good breeder who has taken time to think about what they are breeding,done all the health tests needed ect.
I really belive if everyone took as much care when choosing a breeder Cala and co would have a lot less work.

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Also, dogs that end up down the rehoming route often have genuine unforseen circumstances for being rehomed..not all come from indescriminate breeders.....

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True,none of us know what lies ahead and the best laid plans can go wrong-but there are a lot less dogs in rescue waiting for a new home from people who lost their jobs/broken marriage then from people who bought a cute pup then diddnt want the resulting adult full of problems because they never took the time to educate it properly.

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Anybody who ever bred any pups will tell you what liars some people are when they come to see a litter.they will often tell you anything cos they want a puppy right now.and it becomes a battle to get one if you tell them its not a good idea.


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And thats why non breeding contracts dont always work.
People can and do lie to get their hands on a pup then vanish into thin air with no way of knowing what is happening to the pup sold to them.
Not much can be done there,but a responsable breeder will do all they can to avoid this.
You get an instinct for people,and a good breeder WILL turn someone away if they think they want the dog for the wrong reasons.
Untill a deposit is taken the pup belongs tot he breeder,they have every right to refuse to sell to someone.

As for the collars,shame
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I think like many other training aids if used right they are a great help and are the best way to get through to some dogs who would have to be PTS is the issue is resolved.
All very well saying rehome it,but that doesnt get rid of the problem,just passes it along.
 
I agree with most of what you are saying...but I cant see any sane person breeding puppies and all the hard work that goes into it.....keeping the litter for however many weeks etc..then selling the pups and making a loss.

I have mini dachshunds.....the price of these now is around £850.....so I won't be buying any more of them.and when most pedigree dogs cost almost the earth, its not possible that the breeders don';t make plenty money.

I wouldn't want a well bred pup from show quality stock..all you can see on the pedigrees is red red red.and plenty in breeding.......its breeding for the show benches which give us dogs that are horribly deformed in the first place.

Glad you have your quality dog and you managed to find a good breeder.....bet it wasn't given to you for free though and bet the breeder isn't flat skint broke neither???
 
Yes,he charges a lot for the pups,but then they cost him a lot to raise.
He can pay his bills easily enoug,but wont be buying a mansion any time soon
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and TBH I dont see why good breeders shouldnt be able to earn a living out of what htey do.
Show or working stock breeding good dogs is demanding and I half think good breeders deserve some return for their efforts,we see nothing wrong with people breeding horses for a living why should dogs be any different?

Bad breders on the other hand,should be strung up from nearest tree.
 
Anima, at the risk of saying this, I do have a problem with people breeding horses.

I do not believe it should be banned but controlled. Same as the dog world the market is saturated with animals for sale.

Sorry CALA if I caused offense it was not intentional.

The effectiveness of banning the use of electric shock collars in Wales is questionable anyway when their sale and possession has not been included in the legislation.
 
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