RSPCA with out photos

[Alec Swan]

I don't have much experience with dogs used for pest control. Do any of the dogs pictured in this thread look like dogs used for pest control?
I hadn't thought of it, but if you say you can tell a working dog from a non working dog, then do they all look like working dogs?

Hope that makes some sort of sense

Your question makes perfect sense. It rather defines the case, in my view. The small chocolate terrier bitch, though accepting that the pic isn't up to much, 'may' be a useful type. NOT ONE other dog is of working type, or stamp, and that's NOT ONE. Not one of those dogs would have what it takes to face a fox or a badger, in my view. Again, Section Bs and Burghley!!

Nothing in the photographs displayed would lead anyone to think that any of the dogs on display had ever faced anything which would bite back. I'm not defending the O_P here, far from it, I'm just wondering if anyone who viewed those dogs had the faintest idea what they were looking at. I would add that another on this thread, with no particular axe to grind, but who's opinion is of worth has already said exactly what I've said, and that those are NOT work dogs.

Encouraging them to fight with another animal? They'd struggle with a mouse!

Alec.

 

[_GG_]

i have not seen a warrant .They never left a warrant all i can gather is what i was told from them on the day .They waved a piece of paper saying they have a warrant for encouraging a dog to fight with a wild animal they did not state what animal they were supposedly fighting the solicitor has request a copy twice now and never received a copy of the alleged warrant

You said this on the 8th June on this forum, but on another forum, on the 8th of may you say you have already had one interview and are due another in a week. I will post again with details. You've even posted a link to that forum yourself so why say different things on there than on here? Did they not say anything to you in that interview that YOU admit you had, or the one after it? Did you not, when in the interviews ASK THEM???

Every Question you asked i answered to the best of my ability and knowledge i can not answer what i do not know .I have been members of various web sites for years. All i am simply doing is seeking justice for the poor dog that was killed in rspca care due to there neglect and cruelty.

You may not have been asked the specific questions....but tell me how you can post all of the information you have ib my next post on another forum and not on here?

I am home this week and next. I WILL get to the bottom of this because many people are donating to you and I WILL NOT stand by and watch people be duped out of money. If it is all true and above board, I will be the first to apologise and share the truth for you. Until then, I do not believe a word of it.

 

[_GG_]

Link to another forum at bottom of post but here's a breakdown of Dymenteds posts from there. I am extremely confused as we seem to be getting none of this information. Dymenteds posts are in red...where other people have asked a question, I have not included usernames but put them in blue.

29th April

will keep every one updated on current events regarding the rspca i do intent to prosecute for cruelty and neglect haven't had chance to speak to Clive as of yet he was in court all day but hes free tomorrow ! main stream media are now involved as well so there will be a few worried members off the rspca

30th April

I have already email both Alan Hardwick and Niel Rhodes still waiting for a reply .Cannot take them to county court as previous post suggested has to be magistrates court .The main stream media have been contacted but as Clive suggested we will hold back until Ive had an interview . Formal complaint are in the process. Trying to bring criminal charges against the rspca for neglect and cruelty . Will keep people up to date with any more news as it comes in . Thanks for your support and generosity Anton

1st May

No visit tomorrow to see the reaming 3 or 4 dogs.
( email from rspca says 3 but should be 4 unless something else has happened )
They arranged the visit so i can check the welfare off the dogs left and have now changed there mind !! thank you inspector J G
please keep shearing https://www.facebook.com/rspcakilldog

3rd May

Getting an awful lot off main stream media wanting to do a story on them on how this happened

6th May

I have had an interview with a main stream paper who will be running the story who is going to do a big spreed on this case and a few more to show how caring the rspca really are i will off course let every one no what paper and when its out Clive wants to wait till after the interview next week

8th May

Had a message from Clive saying the rspca wont let me see the remaining dogs at this stage dont no what else they are hiding and do not want me to see

They have no powers at all but they are holding them for the police and you have to make arrangements with the rspca to see your dogs i saw 4 dogs two weeks ago and complained that one was emaciated ( i have the video ) so i think thats upset them .

08 May 2014 - 7:23 PM, said:
Dy have you been charged or even interviewed by the police?


have had one interview not been charged with anything next interview is next week. Clive can only request for me to see the dogs ive seen the emails hes sent they take weeks to reply. I can take legal action to enforce this but like Clive says it could take months im hoping to have the dogs back be for that

12th May

can't understand why the dogs can,t be seen, if no charges have been made. Would a request to the police of a third party such as a independent vet to inspect the dogs be taken up by the police or has the rspca have the final word ? and if so then they must have more powers the the police !.and if that's the case then anyone who has a pet of any description should be worried
Have had a vet go out once already to examine the dogs there was 1 police officer and 2 rspca officers in attendance with him the vet found no fault with the dogs and could not understand why they had them i had arranged with them to see the remaining 8 dogs had an email from the rspca stating they will bring 4 dogs first them the following week the remaining 3 (Theres a dog missing some where or a clerical error on the side of the rspca )i saw 4 dogs out off the 4 dogs one lurcher of my sons had lost 1/3 off his body weight all his bones were sticking out i did complain to the Sargent that was present that they were neglecting the dog its all on video his reply was to take it up with the rspca i spoke to Clive and he contacted the rspca since then they has told him they do not have time at present for me to see the remaining dogs although i can get a vet to go and see them again which means they will still have to provide the same cover of people ie inspectors and police when he goes I no what the dogs should look like personal i think there hiding something else you cant force them to let you see your dogs with out taking them to court which could take months and great expense so ill make formal complaints tomorrow along with Clive about the wellbeing off the dogs in rspca care and see where we go from that



As the Lincolnshire police are investigating , might it not be a good idea for a Police dog handler to attend when You visit the dogs? they are based at the Lincolnshire Show Ground, Grange De Lings.


it was a Sargent from there that told me to take it up with the rspca you can clearly hear him on the video

13th May

well they say there investigation is still on going they are trying to say i failed to seek veterinary assistance to a dog. I did keep asking them what had happened to the dog dieing in there care they seem to think it was another dog my son owns that killed her ( the dog they say did it did not have a scratch on her and has never ever been dog aggressive)I called bull **** and they didn't like it I have Clive sorting out how we are going to get a prosecution brought against the rspca for neglect and cruelty he will let me know as soon as hes figured out how we can proceed on the matter.they are still retaining all the dogs because i admitted to hunting rabbits

15th May

These are the dogs seized by inspector J G as he says he feared for there safety and are still holding the dogs. Photos taken a week after being seized by a vet who could not understand why they took the dogs.
I was told officially on Tuesday 13th 8 weeks after they took Stella ( the terrier ) that she died in a fight and would not comment further and when i asked over the white lurcher dog being emaciated with bites marks on his legs inspector J G replied hes only lost a tad over 2.5 kg and it was his bedding that caused the bite marks on him and fur to fall out and that they had addressed the matter. How do they think they can get away with neglecting animal in there care. I have had animals over 40 years and nothing has ever happened to any animal i have owned and looked after
even after 7 days you can see hes lost a tiny bit off weight, Then i got to see him 6 weeks after and complained over the condition off the dog so they stopped me seeing the rest off the remaining dogs

Pics can be seen (page 28) by following link at bottom of post

May 20th

Clive emailed the rspca today requesting that all dogs be reunited to there owner as there is no legal reason to keep them any longer
we are still looking in to how to proceed with bringing charges off neglect and cruelty against the rspca under the animal welfare act 2006
will keep every one up to date with any news thanks for every ones support

the ipcc are involved as well we have to wait to find out what they find first but the wheels are in motion
i intend to get justice form the rspca,s for the neglect and cruelty inflicted on the poor dog


23rd May

Still no word on the return off the other dogs so now im taking the rspca to court over this matter will keep every one informed

5th June

Sorry to hear about your loss mate ,they really are *******s.Just read all this through and the kennel fight dosnt ring true.Does the charity not kennel dogs seperately even from same address.My gut tells me she was destroyed intentionally ,then realising the intent passion you have, a botched attempt at producing a body was brought forward.Did they force entry to start with without an officer present ?Can't get my head round you not been charged yet won't return dogs .More to this sinister affair I feel .Hope you get satisfaction mate.
Yes an 9 officers were present They claim to have had a warrant one was never left we have asked twice now for a copy and not received it no i have not been charged with any offence they are keeping the dogs to cause financial difficulty ( up to £20 per dog per day they charge you ) as well as to try and stress you out worrying if they to have been killed by the rspca. I was informed yesterday from a close friend that the cps will not be bringing any charges and that the rspca are now trying to. They have no evidence / nothing but need to save face for what they have done !! I will be taking to Clive later today and keep you informed


Cont...

 

[_GG_]

8th June

Clive has started the ball rolling with legal action stabba bud will inform every one when more comes in dont want the rspca getting any heads up with anything. Thanks to every one for all there help with this situation its an absolute night mare

9th June

I have emailed the Chief Constable as well as the police commissioner. The IPCC are involved as well Clive has started legal action already but things never move fast im hoping for more news soon. I have spoken to a few people of here that have given me great advice and been extremely helpful i will keep you updated with any progress thanks again to every one for all your support and help :thumbs:

11th June

Received some photos from my vet which he took from his last examination of the dogs at our request and expense as the rspca refuse me visits because i complain over how they keep the dogs and there condition they are kept in. I have never seen dogs with white fur turned yellow and fur falling out in patches with red skin is it because they are having to sleep in urine stained bedding and cramped conditions at the rspca kennels ? inspector J G told me he had sorted the problem out Obviously he has not as there are more bite marks and fur missing of the other dogs now what is it with the rspca and wanting to neglect dogs in there care ? In all the years we have had dogs we never had this problem !!!!

Link to thread

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/topic/320138-rspca/

 

[_GG_]

Your question makes perfect sense. It rather defines the case, in my view. The small chocolate terrier bitch, though accepting that the pic isn't up to much, 'may' be a useful type. NOT ONE other dog is of working type, or stamp, and that's NOT ONE. Not one of those dogs would have what it takes to face a fox or a badger, in my view. Again, Section Bs and Burghley!!

Nothing in the photographs displayed would lead anyone to think that any of the dogs on display had ever faced anything which would bite back. I'm not defending the O_P here, far from it, I'm just wondering if anyone who viewed those dogs had the faintest idea what they were looking at. I would add that another on this thread, with no particular axe to grind, but who's opinion is of worth has already said exactly what I've said, and that those are NOT work dogs.

Encouraging them to fight with another animal? They'd struggle with a mouse!

Alec.

Good to know, but I was wondering if you thought they were all working dogs for the job of pest control of rats and rabbits which is what the OP states. I don't think I worded my question very well

 

[dymented]

_GG_ ill say it again i have never seen a warrant we have requested a copy twice and still not got one

I have had two interviews with the rspca and at no point in any one of them has badger bating or digging ever been mentioned

My son whos dog was killed has never been contacted

I have Not been charged with any offence at all

I have instructed the solicitor to proceed with legal action over the dog being killed in rspca care

We made formal complaints to the rspca whos response was its going to be interesting me investigating myself

Since making the complaints they have refused me access to see the dogs saying they are to buzzy

Yes i do hunt which i have permission to do so in writing

At no point have i ever asked for any donations

The people that have donated are normal every day folk that believe the rspca do persecuting harass/ bully /intimidate / innocent people and they think the rspca behave as though they a law unto them self

The dog with wounds to his face is not my dog it is some one else's dog that was attacked in rspca care as well. Dog abuse by the rspca is not an isolated incident it happens daily just goggle it a lot of the time its hidden swept under the carpet so they can portray a clean image to the public

I will have justice for the dog they killed. They can not sweep it under a carpet and hope it will go away .

 

[cptrayes]

So who hates you enough to make up stories about you and tell them to the RSPCA dymented? Because they did have a warrant to seize your dogs, and it was signed by a judge or a magistrate who saw enough evidence to convince them out was right to do so.

 

[_GG_]

_GG_ ill say it again i have never seen a warrant we have requested a copy twice and still not got one

I have had two interviews with the rspca and at no point in any one of them has badger bating or digging ever been mentioned

I have Not been charged with any offence at all

I have instructed the solicitor to proceed with legal action over the dog being killed in rspca care

We made formal complaints to the rspca whos response was its going to be interesting me investigating myself

Since making the complaints they have refused me access to see the dogs saying they are to buzzy

Yes i do hunt which i have permission to do so in writing

The dog with wounds to his face is not my dog it is some one else's dog that was attacked in rspca care as well. Dog abuse by the rspca is not an isolated incident it happens daily just goggle it a lot of the time its hidden swept under the carpet so they can portray a clean image to the public

I will have justice for the dog they killed

I know...and may I say that is the most reasoned and calm response you have given on this thread so far. As I said, I will be 100% behind you if all is as you say. But I want it checked out first...I think it is the only right thing to do when you are raising money. Perhaps if my disbelief, and that of so many others on this thread is based on the way that you have posted...both in the difficulty in making sense of everything and in the way you have posted different details on different forums, it would be better for your cause if you handed the publicity of it to someone else.

You must understand that to read everything on this thread, then to read another thread with so much additional information makes it hard to take it all in.

I don't want to add to stress, but I also don't think people should be being asked to give their money when there is actually nobody's word to take but yours.

We are a forum of dog lovers in the main...we're a great source of support and encouragement to our members, but you need to be straight and above all, honest...and that is what has been lacking.

If it is true, I genuinely hope that you do get justice...and I really do mean that, I just think what is needed here is the truth and not just your version of it.

I hope you understand.

 

[dymented]

So who hates you enough to make up stories about you and tell them to the RSPCA dymented? Because they did have a warrant to seize your dogs, and it was signed by a judge or a magistrate who saw enough evidence to convince them out was right to do so.

Have you seen the warrant ? I haven't the solicitor has requested a copy twice as no warrant was seen or left

 

[cptrayes]

You've seen the warrant. You didn't read it, which many of us find totally inexplicable, but you saw the piece of paper. A policeman was present to keep the peace, and there is no way this whole thing would have happened without that piece of paper you saw being a warrant.

So who hates you enough to have fabricated enough evidence against you to get one signed?

 

[dymented]

You've seen the warrant. You didn't read it, which many of us find totally inexplicable, but you saw the piece of paper. A policeman was present to keep the peace, and there is no way this whole thing would have happened without that piece of paper you saw being a warrant.

So who hates you enough to have fabricated enough evidence against you to get one signed?

Last time I have not seen a warrant we have requested a copy twice and are still waiting for them (ask your mates to forward a copy please )
More cases of the rspca persecuting innocent people then dropping all charges NO evidence
More cases of the rspca persecuting innocent people then dropping all charges NO evidence

 

[cptrayes]

No. You have not READ a warrant. You have said all along that you saw a piece of paper.

If you genuinely believe this was not a warrant, go straight to the police and register a crime, as this would be an extremely serious offence, especially with a police presence.

 

[dymented]

No. You have not READ a warrant. You have said all along that you saw a piece of paper.

If you genuinely believe this was not a warrant, go straight to the police and register a crime, as this would be an extremely serious offence, especially with a police presence.

Independent Police Complaints Commission
The ipcc are fully aware as formal complaints have been made and are investigating
( We have requested twice now a copy of the warrant and none have been provided )

 

[cptrayes]

Well good luck with that because I find it impossible to believe that there was no warrant.

None the less, the RSPCA do not lightly take on the board and keep of nine dogs. So who have you annoyed so much, and how, that they would do this to you?

 

[_GG_]

Dymented, I am leaving this now for the day...but just thought I'd clarify my position as I was allowing emotion to creep into my posts yesterday.

I do believe your dogs were taken. I do believe it was probably quite a fraught experience. I do believe that the RSPCA are capable of doing things wrong.

However, I don't believe we are being told the full story and I don't believe you should be asking for donations without absolute honesty on your part, which you have not shown.

 

[ester]

At no point have i ever asked for any donations

Why is there a donate button on the facebook page then?

and post this there? 'if any one would like to donate or bid on anything please look here'

 

[dymented]

Well good luck with that because I find it impossible to believe that there was no warrant.

None the less, the RSPCA do not lightly take on the board and keep of nine dogs. So who have you annoyed so much, and how, that they would do this to you?

You and me both then . They had no legal reason to take the dogs and they know it. I do believe if my sons dog was not killed and i had not complained and taken legal action then they would all be back home now and that would be an end of the matter .

Donations
please scroll through the page and you will find people posting put a donation button up so we can help I have never ever asked for any thing i can and will stand on my own two feet as i have always done But if some one else wants to help stop the rspca from doing anything like this again what can i say ? you can see a comment on there from some one saying over donations i told them to donate to the dogs trust.

I dont get what part of the story you do not get or i am hiding ? MY SONS DOG WAS KILLED IN RSPCA CARE IT WAS TORN TO BITS IN A FIGHT DUE TO THERE NEGLECT AND CRUELTY is it right for them to allow this to have happened ?????

 

[cptrayes]

Dymented, the problem is that it cannot be true that they had no legal reason to take the dogs, because they cannot simply turn up at someone's home without a warrant and do that. And if they had a warrant, then evidence was presented to a judge or a bench of magistrates to get them to sign the warrant.

I'm not saying that the evidence was correct, and for all I know you have a terrible enemy, but until you accept that they had a warrant and say so, it is impossible to believe that your dog was killed while in RSPCA care, because we have only your word for that at the moment.

Meanwhile, I still think your big problem is to work out why the RSPCA picked on you. How did they even know who you were? What evidence did they give a judge or magistrates? Who hates you so much, and why, that they would fabricate this?

 

[fburton]

Meanwhile, I still think your big problem is to work out why the RSPCA picked on you. How did they even know who you were? What evidence did they give a judge or magistrates? Who hates you so much, and why, that they would fabricate this?

Burning questions, all of them.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

NINE police officers were present when the RSPCA attended without a warrant ? NINE ? Why would they send nine officers and why would they all be colluding with the RSPCA ?
Do you have a reputation locally ?

Why have the media not run this apparent tale of injustice ?

Incidentally, our local rat man works with a ancient old lab, who is extremely efficient at dispatching rats and rabbits.
Of course, we only know of the dogs you have mentioned. I find it difficult to believe you are giving us the full story. I only know that you are hell bent on attacking the RSPCA in a very aggressive and single minded way.
Having spread your story around the internet, choosing forums and facebook pages that you thought would unquestioningly jump on the band wagon, you made a mistake in assuming that here on HHO we're equally blinkered.
We 're more interested in finding out the facts, truth and probability.

 

[cptrayes]

MSR I read that as nine RSPCA officers, one for each dog. It's another reason why this wasn't just some whim by the RSPCA, it took an awful lot of coordination to get the removal of the dogs done, and now they are boarding them at great expense. This isn't something that'just happened' it's taken weeks of planning.

 

[_GG_]

MSR I read that as nine RSPCA officers, one for each dog. It's another reason why this wasn't just some whim by the RSPCA, it took an awful lot of coordination to get the removal of the dogs done, and now they are boarding them at great expense. This isn't something that'just happened' it's taken weeks of planning.

Yes...it took teo weeks for them to organise moving 1 pony that they didn't even have to collect.

I worked very closely with the RSPCA over about 6 weeks with that whole saga and the inspector and officers involved worked their absolute backsides into the ground, fighting against the difficulties of all the procedures they had to go through. They did go through them though, it made their lives infinitely more difficult, but it managed the case in a way which enabled them to be able to bring charges (extremely necessary) against the owner.

I cannot comprehend 9 RSPCA officers, accompanied by a police officer all coluding in such a massive injustice. I just can't.

 

[FairyLights]

Hope the dogs owner had the book thrown at him. Badger baiting, which I think this is about, is horrendous and is rightly outlawed.

 

[dogatemysalad]

MSR I read that as nine RSPCA officers, one for each dog. It's another reason why this wasn't just some whim by the RSPCA, it took an awful lot of coordination to get the removal of the dogs done, and now they are boarding them at great expense. This isn't something that'just happened' it's taken weeks of planning.

Ah, yes, that makes sense. They must have been very concerned to direct so much man power into one case.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

MSR I read that as nine RSPCA officers, one for each dog. It's another reason why this wasn't just some whim by the RSPCA, it took an awful lot of coordination to get the removal of the dogs done, and now they are boarding them at great expense. This isn't something that'just happened' it's taken weeks of planning.

That's even worse. What an operation it must have been.

 

[Alec Swan]

MSR I read that as nine RSPCA officers, one for each dog. It's another reason why this wasn't just some whim by the RSPCA, it took an awful lot of coordination to get the removal of the dogs done, and now they are boarding them at great expense. This isn't something that'just happened' it's taken weeks of planning.

So with 'an awful lot of coordination', 'weeks of planning' and the 'great expense', can you explain how they managed to have one small terrier kennelled with and killed by 3 GSDs? Would you not accept that it's also possible that the rspca are totally inept, and that their actions smack of wilful incompetence?

Ets, with your undoubted equine experience, and were you to witness fools and their behaviour, and were your opinion asked, then we both know what your reaction would be, don't we?!!

Alec.

 

[_GG_]

So with 'an awful lot of coordination', 'weeks of planning' and the 'great expense', can you explain how they managed to have one small terrier kennelled with and killed by 3 GSDs? Would you not accept that it's also possible that the rspca are totally inept, and that their actions smack of wilful incompetence?

Ets, with your undoubted equine experience, and were you to witness fools and their behaviour, and were your opinion asked, then we both know what your reaction would be, don't we?!!

Alec.

I can't. But my problems are not to do with that. If that happened as we have been told, I will fully support the OP.
However, I find it all very hard to swallow that the RSPCA coordinated 9 officers and the police to take 9 dogs for no reason, having only waved a piece of paper and not actually said anything to the OP during what would have taken more than a few minutes.

There have been two interviews since, but still the OP knows nothing?

The dogs are still being held. We've been told by the OP that the dogs have lost weight in the RSPCA care, the OP has posted pictures apparently showing this, but then also posts to say that the independent vet said the dogs were in good health.

It just concerns me. It concerns me if the RSPCA are guilty of all of this. But it also concerns me that people are being asked to donate. OP...you may not be outright asking, but you are sharing the link to donate and allowing others to share and ask for donations.

It's just too difficult to believe without any absolute concrete facts. The truth is so very important with things like this, so please understand how hard it is to have followed your posts on this forum, only to go and see how differently you have posted on another one.

EDIT: An absolute, concrete fact to me is not the word of the OP. It is evidence taken directly from one of the involved authorities...not shared by the OP...but irrefutable. SO we may well have to wait for this to have its day in court...if it ever does. I simply grew up enough a long time ago to know that people are capable of lying so when it's something this important, I am just not prepared to take the OPs word for any of it.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

How much of the story can we believe though ? The Op says that his dog was killed by 3 GS's whilst in the care of the RSPCA and yet somewhere doesn't he state he was told one of his own dogs killed the terrier. He gives us a time line and details that may or not be correct.
Problem is, we cannot take any of the details of this story as being factually correct without knowing the RSPCA's account.

 

[hairycob]

Goodness knows what the truth is here but it does remind me of the James Grey supporters who came on here at the time of Spindles Farm.

 

[Fides]

NINE police officers were present when the RSPCA attended without a warrant ? NINE ? Why would they send nine officers and why would they all be colluding with the RSPCA ?
Do you have a reputation locally ?.

The only reason for that is them anticipating trouble of a physical nature.