Rude judge

I know how you feel - I will NEVER EVER show again after a similar experience. I complained to organiser and to the panel the judge was on too. He was a nasty, nasty little man, told me my pony was deformed and had no place in a ring!! I will not pay to be insulted, told him so and he put his hands on my pony to stop me leaving....I said to him "get you hands off my pony NOW" in a very quiet and menacing way, and he told me I could not leave his ring - so I told him that it was illegal to hold someone against their will and this was a showring not Guantanemo bay!!! = OMG did the crowd laugh at that!!!

This judge was a nasty little man who clearly got off on belittling others in public as his comments were very loud and clearly aimed at the crowd as well as the entrants.

I look back now and laugh, but I will not support shows with judges like this, so have decided to give up showing - hated it anyway!!
 
I've had around ten years showing experience and I have never heard any judge being rude. Some are more blunt than others, but I have never had any of the experiences that are mentioned here. :-)

FWIW, with regard people leaving the ring, and whether it is rude or not, I think it entirely depends on the situation. I would never leave the ring purely because I felt a judge was derogatory towards me or my horse. I would be the bigger person and stay in the ring until the end. However if a horse is misbehaving to the point where it is dangerous, then yes, I fully agree that it's ok to leave the ring, and I have never seen a judge complain about this. A simple salute to the judge, or quick acknowledgement to the steward if you are really struggling would suffice I would say.
 
Hmmm. My sister can deal with day to day life and usual circumstances. She definitely would not expect to be treated differently from others and as a rule she is confident where horses are concerned. She has worked on yards and is very knowledgeable. The point I was trying to make was that the judge was ridiculously rude, and shouldn't have been. I accept that there is etiquette and that there are certain rules but this woman was down right horrible. No excuse. I must stress that my sister was NOT upset that she wasn't placed first nor did she walk out for that reason. She will openly admit that Patrick isn't the prettiest or the best put together but he looks after her and they deserve to have a go at what they want without being ripped apart.

I am not put off as I know what competition is like. I am hardened to it and so long as my horse behaves I am happy with him.

For all future posters, focus on the fact that the woman said 'ugh don't do that you sound like a gypsy' and don't try to excuse her behaviour by saying she had every right to treat the class the way she did!!
 
I hope your sister can summon up the courage to have a go at dressage. We do low level showing and dressage and majority have been great. My son took his youngster into working hunter class and was placed third due to a cheeky little buck when asked to go into canter, this was admitted with a smile and a nod (he had done it !!)
The judge was lovely with a sense of humour , exactly what is needed at a local show, my son might actually try again due to this .
I would not expect my kids to stay in the ring to be bullied and insulted .
Maybe your sister could try hypnotherapy , it really does help with nerves.

My son took his youngster into a showjumping class at the weekend. he did well and was placed 2nd. there was a roar round after the rosettes were presented which included the horse class and the pony class in a small ring so my son decided to leave it. He was worried about crowding and safety . he excused himself but the lady helping with the ring came after him and said he was a disgrace, if he couldnt manage the horse he shouldnt be riding him etc. The sponsors deserved to see them all go round, (they werent even there) , she said he had bad manners and should nt enter again.
He did and the kids won and came 2nd with different ponies in the pairs class , I made sure he went in on his older pony and he was told to go round twice to make up for the last time !!!.
I do so hope your sister can have another go. Good luck
 
Moomin1 said:
I've had around ten years showing experience and I have never heard any judge being rude. Some are more blunt than others, but I have never had any of the experiences that are mentioned here. :-)

FWIW, with regard people leaving the ring, and whether it is rude or not, I think it entirely depends on the situation. I would never leave the ring purely because I felt a judge was derogatory towards me or my horse. I would be the bigger person and stay in the ring until the end. However if a horse is misbehaving to the point where it is dangerous, then yes, I fully agree that it's ok to leave the ring, and I have never seen a judge complain about this. A simple salute to the judge, or quick acknowledgement to the steward if you are really struggling would suffice I would say.
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Okay, so presumably you are a confident person who is able to do this. That's great, you'd finish with your head held high and know the "etiquette". however the young lady in this case is a nervous inexperienced person with a learning difficulty. She couldn't cope, she was sobbing and in bits, so she left. No reasonable person would surely accuse her of being rude in those circumstances?

The bit about using the derogatory comment about gypsies as a put down is disgraceful on so many levels.

I'd say that judge is a stupid inadequate woman and the "power" of being a judge went to her head. I hope the complaints mean she won't get the chance to repeat the performance.
 
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Festivepony said:
Okay, so presumably you are a confident person who is able to do this. That's great, you'd finish with your head held high and know the "etiquette". however the young lady in this case is a nervous inexperienced person with a learning difficulty. She couldn't cope, she was sobbing and in bits, so she left. No reasonable person would surely accuse her of being rude in those circumstances?

The bit about using the derogatory comment about gypsies as a put down is disgraceful on so many levels.

I'd say that judge is a stupid inadequate woman and the "power" of being a judge went to her head. I hope the complaints mean she won't get the chance to repeat the performance.
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I was talking generally about leaving the show ring, not about OP's sister specifically. :-)

Yes I agree the judge, if that is what happened, had no right to say the things she did. Thankfully, I have never come across that sort of experience in the showing world, though that is not to say it's impossible.
 
I don't think it's unbelievable at all!
When I used to work at the Co-Op, some woman came in and threatened to call head office and have me fired, because the cream eggs were not 6 for £1. A colleague was also made to cry by some man who screamed in her face because she didn't say "Thanks" as soon as he'd have liked. I could go on and on!! Some people are a little unhinged.

I know how hard it is not being able to say anything. It's all well and good saying "Grow thicker skin" (been said to me many times on here!) but it's not that easy. It's like a physical barrier! I was once yelled at by a farmer (who got completely the wrong impression - won't get into it) and I literally couldn't reply, I was so upset and embarrassed! I couldn't explain the situation and just sat there saying "sorry...sorry...sorry"
I got YM to call him and explain. I still couldn't face talking to him!

I really hope your sister gets over it and has another go, but if not, I just hope she can enjoy her horse :)
 
DIESELSUPERSTAR said:
What is not entirely believable?
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I don't know who said that but I think they were quite in the wrong. I find the level of the judge's rudeness and ignorance astonishing but it's not my place to doubt your account. i wasn't there and why shouldn't we accept it as true?

OP there are people here who delight in trying to suggest people are making stuff up (sometimes they probably are, but so what? No skin off my nose! ;)) and accusing newcomers of being trolls. Most on this forum are nice and helpful though. I'd just ignore the ones who aren't. :)
 
sometimes its not as easy to just 'grow a thicker skin'- but it does not make anyone any less of a person. Some of the comments on here suggesting the judge had every right to treat OP's sister like that and that the sister is the one who needs help is beyond me.

Im glad your sister is seeing the doctor, but this was an extreme case and If she can cope day to day then maybe a couple of counselling sessions would be beneficial- but due to the situation I dont blame her, the way she acted was probably how I would have acted!!!
 
Chan said:
I don't think it's unbelievable at all!
When I used to work at the Co-Op, some woman came in and threatened to call head office and have me fired, because the cream eggs were not 6 for £1. A colleague was also made to cry by some man who screamed in her face because she didn't say "Thanks" as soon as he'd have liked. I could go on and on!! Some people are a little unhinged.

I know how hard it is not being able to say anything. It's all well and good saying "Grow thicker skin" (been said to me many times on here!) but it's not that easy. It's like a physical barrier! I was once yelled at by a farmer (who got completely the wrong impression - won't get into it) and I literally couldn't reply, I was so upset and embarrassed! I couldn't explain the situation and just sat there saying "sorry...sorry...sorry"
I got YM to call him and explain. I still couldn't face talking to him!

I really hope your sister gets over it and has another go, but if not, I just hope she can enjoy her horse :)
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I agree, although extreme I wouldn't say impossible. As for 'Unhinged' people, I think that is what I was classed as yesterday by the Tmobile helpline who are of no help whatsoever :mad3:

In a few years of showing I think I have only ever once had the wrath of one judge who really tore into me when I stepped forward for the individual show. She not only said it loud enough for the other competitors to hear but all the spectators too. Rather OTT ! I did sincerely apologise, then apologised again when asked to walk away, she must have forgiven me as she placed me first and then Next to Best (3rd) in the championship. The reason was that I talked to the lady next to me whilst in the line up as she was nervous not having shown before and wasn't sure what to do. When I went back into line though I whispered to her 'I'm in big trouble and I'm not allowed to talk to you anymore or we're up for detention'. Fairplay though I was in the wrong.
The worst judge though was actually a phoney, complete charlatan. Had somehow convinced someone that she was capable of judging and was recommended to the show committee. The M&M class I was in was huge, should have been split. Instead before the trot around she picked out and asked half the competitors to leave the ring :confused3:
We all stood there wondering wtf was going on. When she eventually finished her eeny meeny miny mo most of us had walked out of the ring. A judge from another ring was called in and she was asked to leave. She had done the same at a dog show - she owned a GSD, thats it !
Sometimes I listen to advice from a Judge, other times I choose to ignore it. Having been told that my then 3 yo Sec D needs a lot more 'condition' on him when he is a perfect healthy weight means that often I am up against those that prefer a heavier showcob.
Now he's going well under saddle, showing is part of his history as I have grown bored of it.

Just don't allow one person to affect you or your sister in that way as in the grand scheme of things its just not worth it.
 
The judge I would say was maybe in her 50's. Unfortunetly she was called in on the day as the original judge couldn't make it so i dont know her name. according to the secreteries at the show, the judge was in a bad mood because she wanted to judge the working hunters, not the coloureds.

I don't know why people are questioning if this post is true... I swear on my ponies life that it is no word of a lie. Nor is it exagerated. I would NOT swear on my boy if even a sentence of it was not correct!!!

My sister is going through a rough patch atm and hasn't ridden in weeks. I'm sure if I showed her all these posts about her being a doormat it would really lift her spirits... Not. thanks to those who understand this young womans difficulties through life :-)
 
I think you both just need to put this behind you - easier said than done i know.

You have learned a few ringcraft lessons however tactless and rude the delivery

You shouldnt have been anywhere near each other on entrance and continued that on the walk round, a decwnt space is needed, you are in a class not out for a walk together - thats probably what marked you out as potential for a telling off :(

It is always good morning or good afternoon

Always get permission to leave the ring - to those that say this doesnt matter it does - you have paid your money to be judged and so its manners to be there - you wouldnt get up and leave a conversation half way through or get up abd walk out at a dinner without saying anything

getting permission during times of difficulty (such as Moodymare alluded to) can be as simple as catching the judges eye and giving an imploring look to which they nod. Ibelieve this is what happened in the championship she mentions

Do try and get the judges name if you can, many people who show regularly have a little black book of judges and what type of horse they like, breed and what they dont like, i dare say these also mention their manner lol - the last thing you want to do is get in to showing properly travel a few hours to a show and find the same judge!

I realise the etiquette and tradtional thinking seems out of place to many and unnecessarily confining but in these days where tradional values are falling apart at the seams i personally like it. The essemce of showing has barely changed since i was a kid and if anything its the competitors/parents/producers missing their manners and testing the boundaries of this rigid sport

Entries to shows such as equifest are huge, showing is becoming more accessible to the 'common man' i do think most judges accomodate this well offering advice for these people to work their way up and improve - plenty of HOYS ponies owned by normal families. The Showing Register are a good 'easy to understand' society who are very helpful so maybe worth a google

You had a bad time but honestly its not like that 99% of the time!
 
Welsh D I agree with you. I like the etiquette and in normal circumstance would try my very best to follow and am as I say still learning. all of the judges I have met this year have been absolutly lovely bar this one lady who was beyond just being a little bit rude. When the judge came to us about leaving space, which I also agree with, my sister was only half in the ring so hadn't had chance to find a space or back off. The judge was right to voice her concerns about kicks of course. But the way she did it was condescending and embarrassing. Also perhaps i should have said good morning rather than hello, but this was my second show, i was nervous and words just sort of fell out. I have always made a point of saying good morning now but again the way she spoke to me was like i didn't deserve to speak to her. With regards to my sister leaving the ring. I'm in 2 minds about it. Yes its polite to retire with the judges knowledge but my sister physically and mentally could not do it. I cant imagine how embarrassed and hurt she must have felt when being talked to in that way and for all i care, the judge deserved no respect that day. on a normal basis, with a normal judge, my sister would not have left the ring and would not have found herself in this situation.
 
Absolutely the rudeness was unforgivable - im just saying you learned stuff for next time thats all - you cant turn back time so there is no point in worrying about what you did do

Re the being too close, the space should be established outside the ring ready for when you walk in. Dont let anyone crowd you even your own sisters horse. You get the odd bright spark that knows if they get close they can upset someones horse so be concious of the 'over friendly' people in the area outside the ring as you dont always know their motives!
 
DIESELSUPERSTAR said:
Where to start...
Myself and my sister are very amateur, don't care about winning or loosing but just like taking our 2 coloured boys out and about and using them to their full potential. I should mention that my sister is a nervous wreck, she is one of these people who have major panic attacks about things which others may not even notice.

So this summer after 4 years, I finally managed to get her to do an in hand show with her beautiful boy, Patrick. The first show she did she got 2nd and was over the moon, so we entered fishguard show in pembrokeshire. She even entered the ridden!!

So we drove an hour to the show ground and my sister was excited and ready to compete, when our class was called we walked our boys down to the ring together.

As soon as we were in the ring the judge came over and started shouting 'get away from that stallion, I won't have kicking on my watch' neither me or my sister knew what she was on about so carried on, judge carries on shouting and pointing at my sister- she thought my gelding was a stallion! My sister Obviosuly didn't realise the judge was talking to her untill she came right up to her shouting because Patrick and diesel are field buddies and wouldn't kick each other. This first incident had but my sister on edge.

When it came to judge time I was in 2nd and my sister in 3rd. I walked up to do my individulal show and the judge said hello, so I replied hello. To which I got 'dont you ever speak to a judge like that again, its good morning or good afternoon'. Well that shut me up.

My sisters turn next to which she said ' come on paddy' and then clicked her tongue twice to awaken the old man. Well the judges response was 'ugh don't do that you sound like a gypsy' - might I add that we were in a coloured class and both first and 2nd place were gypsy cobs!!!! This to me is a disgusting way to behave. We have no problems with gypsies so don't feel offended by that, its the fact that the judge meant it in a derogoratory way.

Needless to say my sister was in tears and couldn'tt hack any more abuse, so ran out of the ring. Judge now screaming 'how dare she leave without my permission, get her back now!'

I tried to explain that she was a nervous person and that she was very upset and the judge put her hand up in my face to tell me to shut up!!!!

We complained on the day and got money back and severe apologies and also the knowledge that we weren't the first complaint about this judge and that she would not be asked back next year. I was hoping to take it further but have heard that anyone can be a judge and you don't have to be licensed or anything so this horrible woman can walk about thinking she's gods gift just because she's a judge for one day.

My sister will not show again, I've tried but its a big no no! As a total novice in the sphere I am disgusted that someone can be so up their own back side and treat people in such a way. I'm trying to get to the top with my young traditional and hope that its not always such a horrible atmosphere! Can't we all just enjoy our horses!?!
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How about naming and shaming?

I thought that UK was the same as NZ for judges at county level shows that they attended courses and were qualified to judge.

To behave like that is appalling. I've ignored judges/stewards before because I've not realised they were taking to me but have never been abused for it.

It's good that your sister has made an appointment with a doctor as life is very tough when you're not the bravest.

Asking her to help you will be great, hopefully you won't be like me before a competition. I always tell my helpers in advance that when I'm stressed I get snappy but none of its personal. So far they've always forgiven me.
 
There are proper judges panels and this is taken very seriously. To get on to a panel though you need relevant experience which is usually at unaffiliated level

Some shows even if only small and local will use a panel judge.

Others will use judges they know are capable qualifications or not

Others will use the first people who put their hands up at a meeting or the person worst at cooking bacon sandwiches lol

Being on a panel doesnt mean the judge is excellent and one thats not on a panel is poor - it comes down to many factors

Sadly all the qualifications and experience in the world wont stop someone thinking they are 'gods gift' and being rude doesnt mean the lady doesnt have years of experience and championship judging behind her

To quote from The Simpsons... Some people are just jerks.
 
I have never shown and can honestly say after reading this, I never will. I can't believe anyone would condone such behaviour. Some sound so anally retentive about etiquette it is untrue. Why can't a judge allow for the fact it may be someone's first time? To learn anything under such pressure of doing something so heinous as saying "hello" instead of "good morning" must be just horrible. No thanks I will stick to showjumping where fences stay up or fall down and you can say hello to whomever you want. It is not acceptable for any judge to be rude just because it is "showing" and very sad that so many seem to have been brainwashed into thinking it is!
 
HBM1 said:
I have never shown and can honestly say after reading this, I never will. I can't believe anyone would condone such behaviour. Some sound so anally retentive about etiquette it is untrue. Why can't a judge allow for the fact it may be someone's first time? To learn anything under such pressure of doing something so heinous as saying "hello" instead of "good morning" must be just horrible. No thanks I will stick to showjumping where fences stay up or fall down and you can say hello to whomever you want. It is not acceptable for any judge to be rude just because it is "showing" and very sad that so many seem to have been brainwashed into thinking it is!
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^^ This.
Honestly, the "etiquette" which says you can say good morning but not hello is pathetic IMO. It's just steeped in snobbery and out-dated hierarchy which thankfully have been put in the past in favour of equality and a more egalitarian society.
 
What a rotten day for your sister. I hope that she can get over it and put it all behind her. Focus on the fact that when you complained, they apologised a lot, refunded your money, told you that you were not alone in complaining and said that they would not be inviting this judge back - they, who were there and organising, did not think that you were over reacting, and would probably be very sad to hear that one of their new competitors were put off returning by this judge.

As for etiquette, yes it should he stuck to if possible, HOWEVER, if someone is being rude, upsetting you, and then expecting you to uphold etiquette they shouldn't be surprised if their competitors walk out on them. When I have judged, if someone doesn't understand something I would try and help them out. If someone was to leave the ring when they'd obviously had control problems, I would forgive them for not perhaps catching my eye first. If someone was to go out in tears I would be perplexed perhaps, but I certainly wouldn't be screaming at them to get back in the ring until they had permission!!

For those that are now too nervous of having a go after reading this thread, rest assured that, while showing is full of rules and etiquette, at local level things should be more flexible and not everyone in the class will know what they are doing. Don't worry, have a go if you fancy it.
 
Its really quite shocking that a human being could behave so badly to your sister IMO. She must be a pretty nasty person when not judging too.

Reading these posts just reminded me of my friend competing one of my ponies in a showing class, the pony was behaving beautifully but was neighing a little bit while standing in the line-up (pony was a 4yo and first ever showing class). The judge walked up to her mid-way through someone elses show and told my friend (who was only 14 at the time...) that if she didnt shut the pony up she would have to leave the ring!!! Quite HOW you're meant to stop a horse neighing Im not sure... any ideas anyone?!
 
Wow, had a read through the pages on this thread and I'm really astonished that some people can turn this back around onto the OP and her sister and side with the judge! There is no excuse for rudeness and bullying in any situation, ever!

I suffer with anxiety, it's not about being shy or "thin skinned" I certainly am not, but certain situations can be completely unbearable and make you feel like you're suffocating. If you're sister was bullied at school and singled out, then this situation with the judge could have easily aroused old memories and feelings, her reaction is completely understandable IMO.

I wouldn't force your sister back into another showing show straight away but perhaps try a fun dressage intro or similar so your sister can ease herself back into competing without having exactly the same environment, which could, on its own cause her to have another anxiety attack.

Counselling works wonders too :) Anxiety will not go away on its own, I've been and its really helped me a lot, I would encourage your sister to seek this if she feels ready to face it as its not the easiest path to take.

Lots of luck to you and your sister OP x
 
equitum said:
Wow, had a read through the pages on this thread and I'm really astonished that some people can turn this back around onto the OP and her sister and side with the judge! There is no excuse for rudeness and bullying in any situation, ever!

I suffer with anxiety, it's not about being shy or "thin skinned" I certainly am not, but certain situations can be completely unbearable and make you feel like you're suffocating. If you're sister was bullied at school and singled out, then this situation with the judge could have easily aroused old memories and feelings, her reaction is completely understandable IMO.

I wouldn't force your sister back into another showing show straight away but perhaps try a fun dressage intro or similar so your sister can ease herself back into competing without having exactly the same environment, which could, on its own cause her to have another anxiety attack.

Counselling works wonders too :) Anxiety will not go away on its own, I've been and its really helped me a lot, I would encourage your sister to seek this if she feels ready to face it as its not the easiest path to take.

Lots of luck to you and your sister OP x
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I have suffered severe depression and anxiety. I stand by what I say.
 
Have just read this and am shocked, disgusted and appalled. Etiquette or not, there is no way I'd have just stood there, and not said anything to the judge, I would have been absolutely livid if she took that tone with me. Yes, it does seem as if op's sister needs some help with her nerves, but it is not her overreacting by the sounds of it. It's completely unacceptable behaviour. I know that op says the refund was for a ridden class her sister didn't do, but I would have expected a flipping refund for being in that class and subjected to such an awful bully.

Many people are saying that it sounds like the judge was 'misunderstood' and in the first instance ignored. If you were walking around with a gelding and someone was shouting at you about a stallion... Exactly how many of you would think that judge was talking to you about your horse? Absolutely not the op or the sister to blame in my opinion.


And if a judge doesn't know the difference between a stallion and a gelding on sight, what on earth is she doing in the ring anyway.

Op, I really hope this doesn't put your sister off showing, however, my YO and I are always saying, showjumping is far easier on the nerves... There are no 'opinions' in showjumping, its not down to personal opinion as it is in dressage or showing, you have a clear set of rules, a pole down seen by one judge is never seen as a pole left up by another judge! ;) there is the added bonus that the judge is outside the box, often secreted away in a trailer or a car... Not as imposing. I hope she can find a way to quell those nerves a bit and work up the courage to get back in the ring.
 
Appalling behavious on the judge's part. I hope she was named and shamed - and not just banned from judging at the same show next year, but all shows.

She is nothing but a bully.
 
Thanks everyone. My sister would appreciate the support from you all... It was just a very bizarre day and completely shocking. I will carry on with doing as many outings as I can, I am not put off because I have seen how kind the majority are in the showing world. Its a very good point about show jumping... Unfortunetly my little trad would rather push them over with his nose, and my sisters boy is a fab jumper, but my sister hates it. I think what's best for her is to be a happy hacker and enjoy her riding whilst she gets the help she needs. I'm quite happy to jockey for her at the odd dressage :-P although me and Patrick aren't the best of friends, I was once awarded with a 'special' rosette for staying on him as he galloped around the ring about 10 times, on a hill in the rain. Naughty Patrick!!!
 
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