Rugging - how did the horses of my youth survive ....

I must admit I'm bemused at people who layer up to 800g. Can you imagine what that must feel like to the horse... so heavy! Also, it is bearly freezing at the moment, what happens when it gets really cold?

In our yard of regularly competing horses who are all clipped out, and winter temps often drop to -10C to -15C we bearly break out the 350g rugs. Generally we want our horses to feel cool under their rugs not "toasty"
 
Chan said:
Horses AND people have survived for millions of years.
That does not mean I would like to live in a cave or wear a corset or hide from people with the black plague. Sometimes, times change for the better :) I often wish I could re-live the days of my childhood (and do, by watching Disney films) but as far as horses go, I don't think they've ever had it this good!
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Overall, I think it's true that today's horses get a better deal, and perhaps this is why they live much longer. I remember few horses living into their twenties in the early 1970s, and they were usually fully retired by then. I also remember very thin horses being a common sight.

However obese horses seemed to be less common than today.

I quite enjoy these then-and-now threads, but I do wish they wouldn't become personal and judgemental. We all do things in different ways, what's to fight about? :)
 
too young to really remember but from speaking to those older than me:

anything that was clipped and a poor doer would have spent more time stabled. Lack of neck covers or rugs suitable for layering meant cold horses, poor horses etc...just stayed in for more of the day.

or so i am told.

so in a way, being able to layer and use neck covers, snuggy hoods etc does some horses a favour....NMT's Fig is the biggest wimp and poorest doer ive met. He has lush dairy pasture, true ad lib(probably has over a slice of haylage left every single morning), has 3 feeds a day, additional fibre in the form of chaff before work etc so we couldnt feed him any more if we tried.

He has got a HW full neck with a MW liner on atm, plus a snuggy hood. Being able to layer rugs like this means he CAN be outside all day, every day, getting fresh air and time to be a horse, but not ever be cold (which would be a waste of money spent on feed as well as miserable for him).

as far as tail bags go, Bruce wears one in the field year round, splatters plenty of bugs with it and isnt at all bothered by it. He wears a sweet itch rug in the summer anyway as otherwise rubs himself raw, so the flies cant get him, so he's not really missing out.

with him being grey the rug and bag do keep him cleaner too, so shoot me-i dont buy horses and pay every penny i earn to watch them frolic round covered in **** and mud. They have jobs to do and i like them to look nice doing it. They get their basic needs of food, water, health care, company and space met to absolutely top standards, so if their other care is partially based around making life easier for ME, i hardly see that as crime of the century.
 
Casey76 said:
I must admit I'm bemused at people who layer up to 800g. Can you imagine what that must feel like to the horse... so heavy! Also, it is bearly freezing at the moment, what happens when it gets really cold?

In our yard of regularly competing horses who are all clipped out, and winter temps often drop to -10C to -15C we bearly break out the 350g rugs. Generally we want our horses to feel cool under their rugs not "toasty"
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Completely bonkers isn't it. But people who do that manage to justify it to themselves in one way or other and don't understand basic physiology.
 
its the same old thing of it being appropriate to the horse..........we have 2 in 220g that are fine and 2 in a HW+MW as one has a medical condition and the other is just a very cold and very poor doer.

we dont just bung the same rugs on every horse regardless and i think when it DOES become that someone just rugs every horse the same, thats when its a problem. But carefully tailoring it to each individual surely shows care and consideration.
 
IME most horses love fly rugs. When thee horse flies are about, they will virtually clamber into them. I kid you not! Horses make it very clear when they don't want rugs on. My filly does not want a rug on in her stable, but likes one on for when she goes out overnight. I know because she will not stand still if she doesn't want her rug on. My old mare was a very hot horse and hated rugs unless she was fully clipped out in winter or the flies were bad in the summer. Literally, she would just keep heading you off each time you tried to get round her to put it on if she didn't want it. But she would come looking for me in the summer when the flies were bad and present herself for her fly rug to be put on.
 
cptrayes said:
I don't use fly rugs, no. Very few horses get bitten so badly that they need to spend their entire lives wrapped up in one rug or another. Fly rugs are a very recent invention.
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My NF mare is actually a very sensitive horse, she should of been born a TB, as she's so sensitive & fast :D
She does need a fly rug & mask, as she unfortunately does get bitten quite badly poor girl :( And sadly my Father's Andalusian has severe sweet itch, so also has to wear fly rugs.

I don't disagree with fly rugs, I think they're quite a good invention, most are very LW & breathable, and some protect the horses from the sun rays.

But, as others have said, you have to rug the horse in front of you :)
 
Wagtail said:
IME most horses love fly rugs. When thee horse flies are about, they will virtually clamber into them. I kid you not! Horses make it very clear when they don't want rugs on. My filly does not want a rug on in her stable, but likes one on for when she goes out overnight. I know because she will not stand still if she doesn't want her rug on. My old mare was a very hot horse and hated rugs unless she was fully clipped out in winter or the flies were bad in the summer. Literally, she would just keep heading you off each time you tried to get round her to put it on if she didn't want it. But she would come looking for me in the summer when the flies were bad and present herself for her fly rug to be put on.
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Very true WT! All of ours are in fly rugs when the flies are bad, they really do love wearing them! One of our Welsh mares will be looking for us to come & put it on her! I only put them on when I see that they're getting upset though.
 
stencilface said:
I don't have time in my life for keeping a grey horse clean, I can't remember when I last cleaned my tack either. I wash his tail once a month ish in winter, providing its not going to freeze, I don't want to create an ice rink! Thats to just knock the worst off. In summer I can keep him quite spangly, but in winter for me its about survival, I only get to ride twice a week and generally don't have time for much else. I love him being rugged though, less area to scrape mud off and less dust to inhale :)
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Couldn't agree with this more!! I have 2 greys on DIY and I'm struggling enough to get through this winter without cashing all my savings in, quitting work and running off somewhere hot until next year. About once a month I boil up a kettle and wash most of the mud/ crap out their tails, cover it in mane and tail and give it a good brush and a trim. And then I leave them for another month! Poor neglected beasts :)
 
NellRosk said:
Couldn't agree with this more!! I have 2 greys on DIY and I'm struggling enough to get through this winter without cashing all my savings in, quitting work and running off somewhere hot until next year. About once a month I boil up a kettle and wash most of the mud/ crap out their tails, cover it in mane and tail and give it a good brush and a trim. And then I leave them for another month! Poor neglected beasts :)
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Oh yes! Liberal spraying of coat shine or whatever it is to help the mud slide off - I still don't think it works! I'm thankful we have the electric these days for a kettle too, otherwise he would be bog monster for months on end :D
 
I find often majority of the threads that cptrayes comments on errupts into a pointless task of everyone feeling like they have to justify what they do with their horses purely because she condemns everyone else around her.
Well, each of my horses is rugged, fed and stabled very differently. My older Anglo Arab hates the stable and is out in 700gms worth of rugs unclipped atm with a constant supply of hay and her old timer feeds. She is happy and fat. My 6 yr old is stabled at night, fully clipped and in super heavy rugs in and out, fed a shed load of haylage and her own feed 3 times a day. She is also happy and looking nice. My new AQH 2 year old is stabled, unclipped and in warm rugs with, heaven forbid, leg wraps and a tail wrap. She is a palomino, she is naturally very clean but her tail needs a bit of help. She has haylage and her own feed twice a day, she is growing into a beautiful little creature. Finally my shetland is fed hay, and yes, he has a rug for when it gets super rainy. My stables are insulated, my horses are well fed, but i fail to see the issue with giving my horses that little bit extra via good rugging. We cant judge other people methods of care if their horses are happy. Personally i dont like seeing horses out in the winter looking chilly, feed plays a good part yes, but why not do everything possible to ensure they have a nice sleep too whilst we are snuggled under our duvets. Or do you still sleep on the floor under a knitted blanket cptrayes? No, didnt think so ;)
 
just to add, from me personally there is NO implication that not washing or not rugging is in any way neglect-im sure the horses are happy as larry.
Its just that i personally prefer, and have the time/facilities to keep them cleaner. So i do it. And thats not neglect either.

As long as the horses are happy i dont mind what its wearing or when it last got bathed, but some people seem to think its either their way or its neglect..............which is bull poo.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
too young to really remember but from speaking to those older than me:

anything that was clipped and a poor doer would have spent more time stabled. Lack of neck covers or rugs suitable for layering meant cold horses, poor horses etc...just stayed in for more of the day.

or so i am told.

.
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I wouldn't say clipped horses didn't go out but where I was down in Devon is a fairly temperate part of the country. In fact they went out more as there was less overstocking of livery yards and insufficient grazing that I find now in Hertfordshire. My 2nd pony was mainly anglo arab and hunter clipped and felt the cold more than either of my two tbs do today.

We did layer at night but we had heavy jute rugs and old army blankets and those rollers with padding either side of the wither. Pony club taught you the correct way to layer.The old new zealands were much heavier and inconvenient than current turnouts but the ones I had at least had a good wool lining though so while less than the 350g I use in cold weather still provided a good deal of protection.

It's true about feeding though, I remember feeding full fat sugarbeet, flaked maize and barley in reasonably large quantities to keep weight on and a little weight loss over winter wasn't unexpected.
 
I do find it strange that some horses live constantly with a tail bag on - i actually didn't realise people did this. Why not just cut/bang tail to just below hock so then the tail won't drag in the mud?

I can't remember the last time I washed bill's tall, most likely at the start of September. Admittedly he has a black tail but he lives out and even when i had a grey it was never an issue large enough to need a tail bag on 24/7. Blue shampoos are excellent, especially if you prewash with dirty beastie :)

He is unclipped but has such a fine winter coat so he is currently in a MW high neck. He could probably do with less but he prefers to stand at the top of the very windy hill watching the traffic go past in all weathers, instead of using the deep straw bed inside the large shelter. The donkeys are glad of it though ;)

I rug as i see fit - and layer up as needed and don't particularly care how others rug their horse as I'm sure they know what their horse requires. Certain people on HHO are known for their outspokenness and sometimes rude opinions so just don't rise to it and be happy that your horse is happy :)
 
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At the riding school where I worked many moons ago, none of the horses got turnout during the winter. The ponies were all kept together in a covered pen deep littered with straw. No rugs. The horses were all stabled and clipped with the old fashioned jute rugs. No new zealands as they never got turned out. In the summer, the show jumpers got a few hours out daily if the weather was nice. The riding school horses and ponies were out 24/7 in a field a mile away. We would ride one and lead one bareback every morning from the field along a busy A rode with nose to nose lorries. I can't believe I used to do that! It horrifies me now.
 
I'm amused at how people in Devon/Dorset etc can comment for the whole country when it comes to weather and flies :D

anyway, I remember keeping a trace clipped TB pony out in NZs (in Suffolk) fit for hunting. It took alot of hard feed to keep weight on him-even when we then decided to keep him in overnight. I remember how the rugs didnt fit well (on anything) and the rubs, and how many blankets they had on under their jutes and desperately trying to make the roller more comfortable for them. I am not a big fan of necks on rugs but if your horse lives out in horizontal rain and wears a rug, its better to have one than not-or the rain just goes down the front. My natives are not rugged in winter but all of mine line up to wear fly rugs when its bad in the summer-midges, birch flies and cleggs can make their life a misery without.
 
FionaM12 said:
Overall, I think it's true that today's horses get a better deal, and perhaps this is why they live much longer. I remember few horses living into their twenties in the early 1970s, and they were usually fully retired by then. I also remember very thin horses being a common sight.

However obese horses seemed to be less common than today.

I quite enjoy these then-and-now threads, but I do wish they wouldn't become personal and judgemental. We all do things in different ways, what's to fight about? :)
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I think so too, and the owners! I love being able to buy red rugs, or rugs with spots on or whatever and having a huge amount of thickness's to buy them in!

I think even 100 years from now we'll still have certain issues, whether it be rugs, fat or thin horses, or bits, or barefoot...I don't think there will EVER be a perfect combination or things for every horse. Unless we teach horses to speak English.

I enjoy them too! I've only been around horses for 20 years and since I was in riding schools for most of that, I haven't really noticed a change...except in hats and BPs! Though I do have a memory of a beautiful bay horse in a horrid waxy green turnout thing. Also agree there's no need to argue unless there's actual cruelty involved!
 
god I can remember the old nz s and jute stable rugs with blankets and rollers.
All i know is that ive got a 25 year old tb xsomething living out 24/7 in fantastic condition, clean legs and bright as a button thanks to the modern rugs.
 
Thanks for that. Rocknrollcowgirl. Welcome to the forum :)


I find it amazing:

1. How many people manage to read things I never write.

2. How many people do not realise that a thread only continues if more than one person joins the discussion, yet somehow hold me responsible for that.

3. How many people seem to be afraid of an argument, which used to be something taught in school but now has become, on this forum, a dirty word.

4. How many people fail to notice that I praise and support at least as much as I criticise.

5. How few people realise that without busy threads this free forum would disappear.

6. How incredibly defensive people get while protesting that they have nothing to be defensive about. If people genuinely think that what they do is right what the devil does it matter what an internet stranger says?

Lighten up guys, it's Christmas and I'm about to hit the Market and the mulled wine and then the panto :D
 
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Wagtail said:
IME most horses love fly rugs. When thee horse flies are about, they will virtually clamber into them. I kid you not! Horses make it very clear when they don't want rugs on. My filly does not want a rug on in her stable, but likes one on for when she goes out overnight. I know because she will not stand still if she doesn't want her rug on. My old mare was a very hot horse and hated rugs unless she was fully clipped out in winter or the flies were bad in the summer. Literally, she would just keep heading you off each time you try and get round her to put it on if she didn't want it. But she would come looking for me in the summer when the flies were bad and present herself for her fly rug to be put on.
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Interesting wagtail, thanks. Mine are in a barn during the day in summer for their waistlines, but if I had one that was tormented by flies of course I would use a rug :)
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
too young to really remember but from speaking to those older than me:

anything that was clipped and a poor doer would have spent more time stabled. Lack of neck covers or rugs suitable for layering meant cold horses, poor horses etc...just stayed in for more of the day.
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I am old enough to remember (creak/groan), my experience was that horses had more turn out not less, herd turn out was more common, riding school ponies would have bib clips and live out at night in one big herd (14-16), hunters used to live out clipped and get ad lib forage, those that needed it wore duvets or blankets under a jute rug with a roller-there were not left cold on the various yards I worked at, the biggest difference was that turn out was all year round on more yards, herd turn out was more common and the horses just had to sort them selves out which was rarely a problem they just got on with it, mixed herds were more common, ad lib hay was more common, horses worked harder and had less excuses made for them but behaviour was better anyway on the whole, people were less likely to over clip and over rug-horses were kept as horses.
I don't care if people want to wash tails twice a day/bag a tail up/how many rugs a horse wears, I do wish people would not say they HAVE to do those things cos they don't they want to and that is up to them as long as the horse is kept as a horse (turn out/equine company and good forage based diet) then why does every one get so het up about it?
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
just to add, from me personally there is NO implication that not washing or not rugging is in any way neglect-im sure the horses are happy as larry.
Its just that i personally prefer, and have the time/facilities to keep them cleaner. So i do it. And thats not neglect either.

As long as the horses are happy i dont mind what its wearing or when it last got bathed, but some people seem to think its either their way or its neglect..............which is bull poo.
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Agree but would you say a healthy horse needing 800 grams of rug during a mild English winter is uncommon/rare?
 
from the amount of horses alone on HHO that seem happy and healthy in it...no.

perhaps horses are evolving to live a more cosseted life, and are getting less tough? I dont know, but i do know that not many very fit, fully clipped horses i know of would be warm enough in just a 350gm full neck and remain in optimum condition/not lose weight. On every pro yard i visit most if not all horses have layers on, and with their livelihood and income at stake, pros will not do things that result in un-happy or un-healthy horses.

could more horses live out in less rugs if left un-clipped, im sure they could. But most people keep horses to ride, and many to compete, so clipping and bathing need replacing with rugs.
 
I am bemused. Having spent the last decade on BE/NL/DE yards with temps going below minus 20 - the fascination with spring/summer rugging no less seems bizarre.

Black tails get mucky too. Nag yet to die.

Cowboy magic is the stuff which repels dirt - nb for the love of god don't put it on the saddle area. It's like wd40!
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
from the amount of horses alone on HHO that seem happy and healthy in it...no.

perhaps horses are evolving to live a more cosseted life, and are getting less tough? I dont know, but i do know that not many very fit, fully clipped horses i know of would be warm enough in just a 350gm full neck and remain in optimum condition/not lose weight. On every pro yard i visit most if not all horses have layers on, and with their livelihood and income at stake, pros will not do things that result in un-happy or un-healthy horses.

could more horses live out in less rugs if left un-clipped, im sure they could. But most people keep horses to ride, and many to compete, so clipping and bathing need replacing with rugs.
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You can't know if a horse is happy without having seen him.
It's funny how you constantly pull the pro/competition card. Unfortunately, you can make money out/compete unhappy or unhealthy horses, that is a bit naive to think otherwise. Not sure lots of theses horses are in 800 grams either as this is not just layering, it is layering the 2 heaviest rugs you can buy.
 
no but unlike many HHO'ers i dont assume i know the horse better than the owener/rider/care giver!

so if THEY say the horse is happy, its mostly probably true with very few exceptions.

Im not a fool, i know many practices that go on behind closed doors are less than palatable, but generally pro's and their grooms will not waste time on something as menial as layering rugs, if it is not needed.

I dont *pull* any card-i merely point out that it might be worth taking note of what the most successful people do...

Do ALL horses need layered rugs? Do all horses in layered rugs win? no of course not,and thats not what im saying before that gets twisted too!
 
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