rugging- to neck, or not to neck

[Lyle]

Hello from down under!

The question that I have is... who turns their horses out or has them living out full time, without a neck cover, when clipped?
Background here is: I have Welsh D's, and have been buying them at 6mo and will be breeding them in the future. I don't rug them until they are in work and around 3yo in which case they get a chaser clip, taking most of the neck off and half face.
So the youngsters grow up weathering the winters and all look incredible coming into spring. I am a little tired of rubbed manes despite me taking them off during the day, but realistically in winter with the short days they are spending more time on than off. I've recently turned two out without necks as an experiment and they seem no different. Our winters can get quite bitter when the wind is up, and we do get cold still mornings in the -3 vicinity. However, on the whole, it's certainly mild compared to Europe!
My other question is, who under-rugs with cotton sheets? It's the done thing here in Aus, with the sheets being washed every few weeks. That said, sheets with turnout rugs over the top tend to slide and can rub, so then I need to add bibs, then the whole rugging process becomes convoluted! It seems in the UK turnouts tend to go straight on the skin? How do people find the cleanliness of the horse's coat and rugs? Sorry for the ramble!

 

[meleeka]

I think most people avoid cotton sheets for the reasons you mention, they slide back a better option is rugs with liners, which attach directly to the rug if you want to be able to keep them clean. I don’t think how clean the rug is is as important as how comfortable it is. If you are brushing your horse daily, any dirt should be minimal anyway. I do wash stable rugs fairly often but turnouts get swept with a stiff brush if they are dusty inside.
Every horse is different. If your horse seems happy without a neck cover and your winters are fairly mild then I wouldn’t bother. I don’t use them either as one of mine actively hates them and the others have got long manes which I want to keep. It’s fairly common for bits of mane to fall out if the horse gets warm and I really don’t want that to happen.

 

[ihatework]

I definitely don’t under rug with cotton sheets! Hate it, you invariably get pressure points.

As for necks, depends on the horse and the weather. But I do try not to use them all the time and in general I find horses prefer not to have necks on.

For a Welshie less is more, unless the horses condition and behaviour is telling you otherwise

 

[dogatemysalad]

It's usual here to put rugs on without anything underneath, although some rugs now come with 100g and 200g liners, which are quickly detached when it warm, or for washing.
I give my horses a thorough brush or hot cloth before rugging if they've been out unrugged. If the rug isn't being used with a liner, I throw lightweight and stable rugs in the washing machine regularly and heavier rugs get sent to the professionals a couple of times during the winter season.
When it's really muddy, the outside gets hosed off and hung up to dry and muddy bits on the lining get a quick sponge off.

 

[Tiddlypom]

0g turnouts rug with separate detachable nylon liners are a big thing over here. The liners are designed to clip in at set points, so they don’t pull back or twist to the side.

Have a spare liner, so that you can rotate the liners regularly.

This rug has a 100g outer, but the principle is the same. The neck is detachable.

https://www.tackshop.co.uk/shop/for-the-horse/horse-rugs/turnout-rugs/horseware-rambo-duo/

 

[BeckyFlowers]

Absolutely no neck rugs unless you want rubbed out manes. Have you considered using half-neck rugs e.g. Rambo Wug? My Welsh D lives out 24/7 in a Wug and he gets clipped out. On the subject of under-rugs, I use another turnout (usually no-fill) rather than a cotton sheet, due to the fit of them.

 

[Widgeon]

If you would consider a turnout with neck, could you try something like a snuggy hood underneath it, assuming it's miserable enough weather to justify the extra layer? That (in theory) ought to help stop the mane rubbing. I've never used one but people seem to rate them.

https://snuggyhoods.com/products/headless-turn-out-hood-zip

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I'd never under rug with anything but a liner designed to be used with the outer rug, such as the Horseware liner system.

I used both Wugs and a neck rug last year on my PRE (bigger somewhat cresty neck). I used a detachable neck and an all-in-one. There was no rubbing. At the time he and a long mane that was usually braided, so maybe the braids prevented rubbing?

Now he has a short mane and it seems to get rubbed easier so I leave the neck piece off of his fly rug usually. Not sure what will happen this winter, but I'm letting his mane grow out because I somewhat regret the decision ?

 

[BeckyFlowers]

https://www.bossysbibs.com/collections/bossys-bibs-products/products/bossys-bibs-rugguard

These area good alternative to cotton sheets, assuming the only reason for the cotton sheet is to wash it to keep the inside of the turnout clean.

 

[milliepops]

0g turnouts rug with separate detachable nylon liners are a big thing over here. The liners are designed to clip in at set points, so they don’t pull back or twist to the side.

Have a spare liner, so that you can rotate the liners regularly.

This rug has a 100g outer, but the principle is the same. The neck is detachable.

https://www.tackshop.co.uk/shop/for-the-horse/horse-rugs/turnout-rugs/horseware-rambo-duo/

TP has described my preferred approach. I like a lightweight outer and then use liners, they are easy to wash and dry so you can take one home to wash in the evening and have it ready to go in the morning.

my welsh has a thick mane which is like an umbrella anyway so I keep necks off unless it's truly horrible or if I need to keep her clean.

 

[Lyle]

Ah thank you everyone for your replies! Lots to think about.
It feels a little odd to question the 'done' thing, but I find it totally fascinating that things are done in such different ways. There's a train of thought that horses need to have 'natural' fibres, so high percentage cotton sheets, wool rugs and canvases. Unfortunately, as we've discussed, I just don't think the fit of these close fitting rugs is that comfortable for them! I love the idea of a 0g outer with liners, I'll look into this option a bit more. The tafetta body liner bibs I have used, I loved them too, (although a naughty horse meant it didn't last long) The trick will be not to double up on too many rugs, they will only be used during winter as unlined canvases are easily the best option for our climate in Autumn/Spring Perhaps adecent 200g turnout is all I need, and they can just cope!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I choose rugs with a silky lining and they go straight on the horses. The only exception is my Rambo Duo which has the liner system. The liners I have are also silky so they don't rub.

I only use neck covers when the weather is absolutely, bleddy awful. I do have a Wug/half neck style, which I like and it heasn't rubbed my mare's mane. Most of the time they are out in standard neck rugs with no neck cover.

I just caught the final days of canvas New Zealand rugs with wool linings and the ones I saw didn't have neck covers and horses lived out all winter in those fully clipped. We are so spoilt now with all these fancy synthetic rugs with different weights, styles and good advertising telling us we need more stuff. While I don't want to go back to the days of heavy canvas, I also know that we have over complicated things a bit.

ETA - interesting to read that canvas turnouts are still popular in Aus. The thing I really remember was the awful rug rubs that often came with them. You could tell pretty well what a horse was rugged in by looking at their shoulders.

 

[Northern]

My Haflinger is clipped and has a Weatherbeeta combo on at night. The rug is taken off most days (unless its like today - windy, cold, rainy). I always try to have a cotton rug underneath mine, it's really increased the longevity of my winter rugs (one is still perfectly useable at 8 years old!). However you really need to make sure they fit perfectly and are washed weekly (I am super fastidious, have only just found one that fits well!). I also never use cotton combos under combo winter rugs, that's too much weight on the mane and will rub. My pony is turned out on decent grass during the day, I figure she can run and eat herself warm rather than rely on a filled rug.

I have never in 9 years of owning horses had issues with rubbed manes or shoulders, but I do only use medium fill rugs and take them off almost daily, more than most other people do here. I think the common rubbed manes and shoulders are a combination of ill fitting rugs and heat from over-rugging. I really like the canvas rugs as a windbreak. My spelling TB is currently in a wool lined canvas rug without a neck, she's perfectly happy and it fits her well. If you want simple, I would recommend trying a canvas. They are well made these days, I use Skye Park and High Plains canvases (Aussie made), both companies are happy to custom make to your measurements.

 

[milliepops]

Ah thank you everyone for your replies! Lots to think about.
It feels a little odd to question the 'done' thing, but I find it totally fascinating that things are done in such different ways. There's a train of thought that horses need to have 'natural' fibres, so high percentage cotton sheets, wool rugs and canvases. Unfortunately, as we've discussed, I just don't think the fit of these close fitting rugs is that comfortable for them!

the way I look at it, they already have their own natural fibres growing out of their bodies
plus if I wanted something comfortable and reliable in rubbish weather Id be going for a coat made out of a more modern material. even my tweed is a technical one so it's much lighter and more comfortable than the old style.

I forgot to add, the thing that really swings liners and LW outers for me is that you don't have to wash the outer every season, which I find vastly extends the lifespan of the rug. I don't mind putting a muddy rug on a horse provided it is clean on the inside.

 

[windand rain]

try not to use necks but only use rugs with detachable ones combo always results in mane loss even clipped they dont really need neck covers unless grey as mud is a nightmare and I hate them going anywhere dirty even for a hack

 

[Scotsbadboy]

I avoid necks on rugs

 

[MiniMilton]

I use a detachable Horsewear hoods on mine. They stay clean all winter and once the hood isn't snug then the mane doesn't get rubbed. It has to have the shiny nylon type lining. I had a connemara mare that lost her entire mane in the space of 2 days with a falpro rug. It was just a bit snug on her cresty neck. The Horseware hoods are quite loose fitting

 

[catkin]

I forgot to add, the thing that really swings liners and LW outers for me is that you don't have to wash the outer every season, which I find vastly extends the lifespan of the rug. I don't mind putting a muddy rug on a horse provided it is clean on the inside.

this
and the modern technical fabrics used for the liners wash easily in domestic washing machines, particularly if in the typical sizes for Welshies rather than the biggest sizes, so can easily do this at home. I don't use neck covers on rugs for Welsh or other natives as they have their own protection in the form of their manes.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

I have a Welsh D with a full mane & he's 16 now, I've always rugged with full necks & he's never lost his mane. I used the ones that have the extra section between withers & neck which then doesn't sit flat over the area & rub. I also spray mane conditioner in his mane & in the neck of the rug every few days which helps. Shires & Premier equine I find the best for not rubbing around there. He's always either blanket or fully clipped with just half head & legs kept on but he isn't your typical hardy type & needs a decent rug as out 24/7.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I have Arabs so neck rugs just rub there mane away, they live out more or less all year and get clipped and cope with most if the weather, I do have detachable necks on some of my rugs but they only have them on in the very worst rain and cold, so that's not really that often tbh, I actually think some horses get too hot in them if worn all the time.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

In theory I hate the idea of a full-neck rug- we never had them when I was younger, and the winters have only got milder, the basic rugs have got better, overrugging contributes to obesity etc etc. BUT I got a fully clipped pony middle of last winter and I found that if I took the neck off the rug, more rain dripped down the front, and she ended up with rubs on her shoulders, and it rubbed her mane worse on her withers without the neck cover ?. So basically, you can't do right for doing wrong!