Run out of money and no answers… what next?

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lucy_108

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Trying to keep a long story short:

My 5yo has been ‘not right’ for a couple of months. Very reluctant to go forwards, exacerbated in the arena. When he does go forward, usually on a hack, he can be quite explosive (fly bucking, rodeoing). His reluctance to go forward in the arena has now changed to a pure refusal to leave walk. He pins his ears, throws his head and ‘skips’ behind as well as grunting if you use your leg.

When you get on him, or lunge him, all he wants to do is go with his nose on the ground all the time.

In the last few days he’s begun head shaking quite badly too.

Vets have done a lameness work up and said he’s 100% sound on soft, hard and flexions but agree he is not right, definitely discomfort somewhere.

Scoped clear for ulcers.

Issue now is I have run out of money - he is insured but they will not cover a poor performance claim as I never updated his policy to reflect he was ridden (totally my fault). I have just settled a 2k bill after my other horse maxed out his insurance policy so I have no funds for more investigations. Vets want to bone scan him which is about 2k.

My question is this: what would you do? Do I just retire him at 5 never knowing? I’m gutted as he is the coolest horse, but right now, he’s not comfortable in work.

Please withhold any judgement 🙏🏻
 
daffy44 said:
As a relatively inexpensive diagnostic, certainly cheaper than a bone scan, you could do a some spinal xrays.
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I agree with this.

I don't agree with turning away when the issue hasn't been found or diagnosed. Turning a horse that is in pain away to be in pain out of sight will not fix anything.

Turning a horse away when the issue is known and time at rest will help is one thing. If something like kissing spines is found Turning away will leave the horse to, at best, develop compensations for the pain. If it was to be something like kissing spines then a strict rehabilitation programme would need to be followed, as one example.

I feel foe you OP as it is not a nice position to find yourself in. If it is manageable then a 0% credit card to allow for x- rays would be a good thing to try. Perhaps the neck too.
 
NR88 said:
I agree with this.

I don't agree with turning away when the issue hasn't been found or diagnosed. Turning a horse that is in pain away to be in pain out of sight will not fix anything.

Turning a horse away when the issue is known and time at rest will help is one thing. If something like kissing spines is found Turning away will leave the horse to, at best, develop compensations for the pain. If it was to be something like kissing spines then a strict rehabilitation programme would need to be followed, as one example.

I feel foe you OP as it is not a nice position to find yourself in. If it is manageable then a 0% credit card to allow for x- rays would be a good thing to try. Perhaps the neck too.
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May well be that turning away won’t cure the horse, but indebting the OP isn’t likely to help either of them in either the long or short term.
Perhaps a 0% credit card is ‘manageable’, but where should these investigations stop? Suggestions for bone scan, hind gut treatment, spinal x rays, neck x rays....might be better commenced when OP is in a stronger position to pursue examinations and treatment to a logical conclusion?
Hope things improve, or settle down, anyway.
 
If you can swing it at some point, I'd x-ray his back and neck.

I might do one of two things or a combo of both:

1. Turn away and take another look in 4 to 6 months.
2. Do no ridden work but focus on slow and steady posture work. Building his core, using his thoracic sling, isolating exercises, low impact work that will make him stronger. How that goes could tell you a few things.
 
Have you had his neck and back xrayed? That would be my next step.

I also assume saddle fits and has been checked as part of the investigation process? Teeth too?
 
Turning away is a good shout as long as the horse is settled and comfortable in the field. It is not a good shout if the horse continues to be miserable and unsettled in the field throughout that time.

For pennies try oily herbs (oregano, thyme, rosemary) for the hind gut while he is off, at least you are trying something that might well help. Hind gut issues can make a horse miserable in the way you describe.
 
ester said:
For a horse to be shouting this loudly I can't see how he is comfortable enough to turn away. I don't think I could in good conscience anyway.
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I completely agree, the horse couldn’t be shouting any louder that it is in significant discomfort. Turning away over winter is also not necessarily going to be a cheap option, especially this year!
I would back and neck x-rays, hock x-rays and suspensory scans. I know all of that costs money, but those are the most likely areas to be causing the pain and I don’t think it would be ethical to not do it.
 
I am probably not going to be popular saying this, but given how loud he is making his thoughts known, whenever you find out what the issue is I'd say it's unlikely to be able to be fully resolved enough for the horse to have a ridden career, especially given his young age. So it's a case of finding out whether his pain can be managed enough to be retired or whether he might need to be PTS. Sorry for being blunt but unfortunately i have been there. A bone scan is likely to be very helpful, or certainly has been in my case.
 
TheMule said:
I completely agree, the horse couldn’t be shouting any louder that it is in significant discomfort. Turning away over winter is also not necessarily going to be a cheap option, especially this year!
I would back and neck x-rays, hock x-rays and suspensory scans. I know all of that costs money, but those are the most likely areas to be causing the pain and I don’t think it would be ethical to not do it.
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Those would also be my areas of focus.
I know my vet would be able to do me a full set of X-rays including neck & back for £500 and would tag on a suspensory scan for not a great deal more. Now she is a one woman band so can keep costs down, but I’d still expect the lot for sub 1k in a clinic
 
If the horse is headshaking while in the field or stable and not only when ridden this wouldn't be something I would just turn away untreated. Headshaking typically gets worse, is difficult to treat and without any investigations it's hard to even identify the cause. One of mine was OK with a nosenet when ridden and a dark fly hood when turned out but another older horse I had, turned out to have a serious but treatable liver problem.

lucy_108 said:
When you get on him, or lunge him, all he wants to do is go with his nose on the ground all the time.
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What my headshaker did also, he had trigeminal neuralgia. It's extremely painful if you can't control it.
 
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Has he seen a physio, chiro, osteopath? Ask your vet for recommendations for a good, qualified person, not a massage therapist or a random bodyworker, and see what they can find. Round me that is maybe £60-80 and I have gotten answers before. My vet is excellent but she isn't an expert at everything and muscular compensations can be very painful by themselves but can also be diagnostic.
 
Please don’t question the OP’s ethics or conscience!
it is fairly obvious that they know the horse has started with issues to resolve, are very worried about this, has other commitments to finance, and quite simply is unable to spend such money right now. OP may well be able to spend when saved up for a while, but clearly not now! That is clear enough, surely?
suggesting all these possible veterinary explorations - unless you are offering to finance them -isn’t constructive.
It may be the horse is never going to come right, which would be another distressing loss, too, but at present seems reasonable to give the (young) animal the benefit of the doubt rather than destroy him, and selling him on to get out of the situation is likely to be equally ‘ unethical’.
If he is turned away and deteriorates wildly, sadly OP will have no choice, but that does not currently sound the case at all.
Plunging into debt won’t help the OP, either of her horses, or her peace of mind - don’t!
 
Can you do some low level investigations of your own? I would be starting with a dental check, really looking for any broken teeth, signs of abscess, wolf teeth etc.. Does he go better bitless? Does he seem to have good vision? What is he like to groom? Any sensitive areas? Does he resist pressure on any area, such as neck, withers, spine, pelvis? Check your saddle fit. You could put a pad of memory foam under the saddle and check after ten minutes of riding for any obvious pinch points. Are you aware of any previous accidents? A fall in the field, a kick, that sort of thing. Are you asking him to do a lot of work, that his young muscles are finding it hard to cope with? If you can rule out pain, I would be tempted to stop the ridden work and work from the ground for six months, walking in hand and long reining. Hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
smolmaus said:
Has he seen a physio, chiro, osteopath? Ask your vet for recommendations for a good, qualified person, not a massage therapist or a random bodyworker, and see what they can find. Round me that is maybe £60-80 and I have gotten answers before. My vet is excellent but she isn't an expert at everything and muscular compensations can be very painful by themselves but can also be diagnostic.
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It can be very helpful for chiro to identify areas of soreness to note for deciding which areas to investigate
 
lucy_108 said:
Trying to keep a long story short:

My 5yo has been ‘not right’ for a couple of months. Very reluctant to go forwards, exacerbated in the arena. When he does go forward, usually on a hack, he can be quite explosive (fly bucking, rodeoing). His reluctance to go forward in the arena has now changed to a pure refusal to leave walk. He pins his ears, throws his head and ‘skips’ behind as well as grunting if you use your leg.

When you get on him, or lunge him, all he wants to do is go with his nose on the ground all the time.

In the last few days he’s begun head shaking quite badly too.

Vets have done a lameness work up and said he’s 100% sound on soft, hard and flexions but agree he is not right, definitely discomfort somewhere.

Scoped clear for ulcers.

Issue now is I have run out of money - he is insured but they will not cover a poor performance claim as I never updated his policy to reflect he was ridden (totally my fault). I have just settled a 2k bill after my other horse maxed out his insurance policy so I have no funds for more investigations. Vets want to bone scan him which is about 2k.

My question is this: what would you do? Do I just retire him at 5 never knowing? I’m gutted as he is the coolest horse, but right now, he’s not comfortable in work.

Please withhold any judgement 🙏🏻
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When he throws his head he is telling you to get off

Sacro and loin area pain can cause this get a chiro to locate sore areas

Is he generally miserable or just when ridden lunged etc

It could be many things, start with most obvious, simple cheapest

I had a horse that behaved like this, put him on vit e and herbs left in field for winter and he's never looked back

You could make a list of simple ideas to try immediately

If he is happy faced generally and not trying hard to tell you something desperately a winter off in a good well fitting rug, for god sake he's only 5, got a seriously long way to go



X ray of spine neck is a good call So getting back on at some point is not fraught with danger, eliminating a risk to rider

No judgement here, only good vibes seriously hoping you can get him comfortable
 
Oh that's so tricky. Please don't get yourself in debt if you don't know if you can easily pay it off. Deleted as actually, what does the vet think you should do next? I don't know your horse from Adam and am not a vet!
 
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Maybe a bit random, but could it be internal scarring/adhesion from castration? Not sure how easy it would be to check, but it's something you could probably run past your vet and see what they say.
 
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