Run & spin... Would you buy?

[Melody Grey]

Hi guys, I'm currently horse shopping and have found an ad local to me for a rising 5 y.o. Welsh D who looks like just the type I'm looking for.

However... Seller says he's babyish (understandable) and has had her off a few times in the school running and spinning.

Would you guys interpret that as babyish or a bit mean? I am experienced but haven't encountered this one before. Should I arrange to view or run?!

 

[FfionWinnie]

It's a Welsh D manoever and it really depends on both her and your abilities as to whether you will find it an issue. I have had 3 who did it and I stopped them all quite easily and they no longer do it.

Have you had much experience with Welshies? In the wrong hands they are terrorists but in the right hands you would struggle to get a nicer horse imo.

 

[Irish gal]

Run.You have the opportunity now to buy exactly what it is you're after - why take on a problem horse. He's five not a breaker, he should be over messing like that by now. Do yourself a favour and wait until a smashing, problem free horse comes along. That's unless you are specifically looking for a project and are very experienced to deal with it. Bet the spinning is why this horse is for sale in the first place.

 

[Melody Grey]

It's a Welsh D manoever and it really depends on both her and your abilities as to whether you will find it an issue. I have had 3 who did it and I stopped them all quite easily and they no longer do it.

Have you had much experience with Welshies? In the wrong hands they are terrorists but in the right hands you would struggle to get a nicer horse imo.

Thanks- that's somewhat reassuring. I'm used to big eventer types, mainly TBs but have had Welsh Ds a bit as a teenager, so not completely new to them but it's been a few years! I'm wanting to step down a gear and hack and have some fun. I've not ridden seriously for a few years although rode professionally a long time ago, so am not the rider I was. Just don't want to take on a nightmare!

How did you achieve a cure ffionwinnie?

 

[Melody Grey]

Run.You have the opportunity now to buy exactly what it is you're after - why take on a problem horse. He's five not a breaker, he should be over messing like that by now. Do yourself a favour and wait until a smashing, problem free horse comes along. That's unless you are specifically looking for a project and are very experienced to deal with it. Bet the spinning is why this horse is for sale in the first place.

Thanks Irish gal, a project is not necessarily a problem depending on how much exactly needs to be done. I'm facing the costs of having my current mare pts at the moment, so the budget is restricted to around £1500 ish. I'm realistic in that a lot in this price bracket will be by no means perfect!!

My question was more whether people would interpret this to be naughty/ babyish/ malliceous?

 

[muckypony]

It's a Welsh D manoever and it really depends on both her and your abilities as to whether you will find it an issue. I have had 3 who did it and I stopped them all quite easily and they no longer do it.

Have you had much experience with Welshies? In the wrong hands they are terrorists but in the right hands you would struggle to get a nicer horse imo.

This made me laugh!!

But it is so true. My Welshie is my prefect pony, does everything and does it well. He does however have the potential to be worlds biggest a-hole and in the wrong hands would be a danger!

 

[be positive]

Thanks Irish gal, a project is not necessarily a problem depending on how much exactly needs to be done. I'm facing the costs of having my current mare pts at the moment, so the budget is restricted to around £1500 ish. I'm realistic in that a lot in this price bracket will be by no means perfect!!

My question was more whether people would interpret this to be naughty/ babyish/ malliceous?

I don't think it easy to judge without seeing the owner ride, some people are easily dropped and it may have become a habit rather than anything else, I would go an look with open eyes and see for yourself, if she appears very competent then possibly leave him, if she is less able then see what feel he gives you after she has ridden him first!
In your price range most will have an if or but if this is otherwise ok and you like him then at the right price it could be a fun project, you will be in a position of being able to bargain as they won't be queuing up for him.

 

[planete]

No. I would walk away. For whatever reason there is a problem that needs sorting out, he has done it several times so it is now a habit and he will need somebody who can ride him out of it, providing it is not the result of pain of course which would necessitate expense and time to pinpoint and cure.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Thanks- that's somewhat reassuring. I'm used to big eventer types, mainly TBs but have had Welsh Ds a bit as a teenager, so not completely new to them but it's been a few years! I'm wanting to step down a gear and hack and have some fun. I've not ridden seriously for a few years although rode professionally a long time ago, so am not the rider I was. Just don't want to take on a nightmare!

How did you achieve a cure ffionwinnie?

Just consistent riding. All of them were in homes where they had the upper hand and were terrifying their novice owners.

Here is a thread about the worst behaved one, who has developed into more than I could ever have dreamed in my wildest imaginings and is looking like she is going to repay the risk I took buying her, ten fold.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...aghetti-legs-no-more&highlight=Spaghetti+legs

I can't stress enough how there was nothing wrong with this horse other than being in the wrong hands, and that she was on a downward spiral to the meat man because of that. However now, she is admired for her perfect behaviour and her potential to go far as a SJer.

I'm no expert or pro rider, I didn't really have lessons until the last 4 years and was mostly self taught as a kid and didn't own my own pony, but I am very stubborn and have cured a lot of (Welsh) nappers due to the fact I won't give in. If you are an effective and brave rider, I expect you can sort this horse out, usually they are all mouth and no trousers, they need you to take responsibility for saving them from all the D eating dragons there are in the world and to be firm, kind and consistent with them. Worth a look, I think.

As BP says, if the rider is very competent you will know how big the issue is. My first D wouldn't hack alone with her owner, I hacked her alone when I tried her and the "spinning" was like sitting on a slow moving armchair, I was able to sort her at the viewing (to the point the woman wanted another £500 as she went so well!).

 

[FfionWinnie]

This made me laugh!!

But it is so true. My Welshie is my prefect pony, does everything and does it well. He does however have the potential to be worlds biggest a-hole and in the wrong hands would be a danger!

. I really really love them but they are not for everyone.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hi guys, I'm currently horse shopping and have found an ad local to me for a rising 5 y.o. Welsh D who looks like just the type I'm looking for.

However... Seller says he's babyish (understandable) and has had her off a few times in the school running and spinning.

Would you guys interpret that as babyish or a bit mean? I am experienced but haven't encountered this one before. Should I arrange to view or run?!

Depends on a lot of things including your ability and experience.

What does your gut instinct tell you??? the only way if it is something you can deal with is to go and view and take your instructor along with you so she can asses it from an outside perspective.

 

[Juni141]

This is a very Welshie thing and I echo what others are saying. Go and have a look. Someone mentioned it is 5 and should be beyond this but in my experience Welshies are similar to Warmbloods; they physically AND mentally take a long time to grow up so it may well just be testing the boundaries. And as everyone seems to agree they are very good at that!!

I backed my Welshie myself and the spin and scoot was her immediate reaction to anything she didn't like but it was easily anticipated and rectified and she wouldn't dream of doing it now. But put another rider on her and I don't doubt for a second she could try it on. They are so bright which inevitably comes with its pluses and minuses!! Sounds like you are an experienced horsewoman and you'd have a ball with a Welshie. I am looking a Welsh youngster that I can bring on at the mo and posted on some of the groups on FB and was inundated with responses of lovely types that were well within your budget. Might be worth a look?

 

[GlamourDol]

Melody grey, what are you looking for? Pm if easier x

 

[eggs]

We had a Welsh D cross for my husband. He was a very genuine horse but could run with my husband but never did with me. I put it down to the fact that I was more experienced and didn't get in the position where he would run which would happen if the rider got out of balance.

 

[ester]

For me it would depend how good I thought the current rider was/is.

Is this a dark bay that I may have seen on facebook advertised?

 

[Melody Grey]

Thanks Juni141- hadn't thought of FB page!! X

 

[DD265]

In my experience Welshies need the right owner; that's somebody firm, fair, consistent and respectful.

Anybody who doesn't treat my lad with the respect he deserves will end up squashed (and that's before I come near lol). He's always been a saint under saddle, but was exceptionally bargey on the ground. I have since learnt to be firm, fair, consistent and respectful.

 

[Melody Grey]

Melody grey, what are you looking for? Pm if easier x

Looking for a Welsh D/ Welsh cross/ random cob type, 14.2hh+, not too heavy (I'm 5' 8" but a lightweight at 53kg). I want to hack/ do a bit of jumping/ the odd afternoon xc schooling or morning's hunting. Prepared to put in some work, but must be something fundamentally sane and safe as we have kids around the yard. Needs to be a good loader/ traveller so getting out and about is an option. Would be a bonus if my little boy could have a sit on on the leadrein (so not anything too flighty!), up to £1500, reasonably local (east mids).

 

[Goldenstar]

If you were wanting a project it might be worth a cautious look.
D's are not every bodies cup of tea .
A friend works with them a lot and cheerfully says they are often insane .
So perhaps insane terrorist sums up the worse case scenario.
If your confident you can assess the problem and have the set up to work through stuff with a difficult horse and the time to be consistent with his work then I would consider it ,if and only if the price is right and he's a lovely type .

 

[Irish gal]

Looking for a Welsh D/ Welsh cross/ random cob type, 14.2hh+, not too heavy (I'm 5' 8" but a lightweight at 53kg). I want to hack/ do a bit of jumping/ the odd afternoon xc schooling or morning's hunting. Prepared to put in some work, but must be something fundamentally sane and safe as we have kids around the yard. Needs to be a good loader/ traveller so getting out and about is an option. Would be a bonus if my little boy could have a sit on on the leadrein (so not anything too flighty!), up to £1500, reasonably local (east mids).

Well you won't be putting your young lad up on that one you're looking at. I don't have much experience with Welshies beyond riding a Welsh X TB, who was very flighty and agile and gave me a few hair raising moments taking grave offence to invisible objects only known to him!

Would you think of looking at a Connie type cross instead, might have a more stable kind of mind for your job.

 

[Red-1]

I have bought horses with behavioural issues in the past, in fact as well as rearing, Jay had a good "turn and burn" when I bought him, which is now trained out as far as any horse can be.

I see several issues with your situation. One would be that there may be physical issues.

But, the biggest issue for me would be that to successfully have a project such as this the best start is where you are raring to go, have a plan as to what you wish to do, and how to achieve it. It raises a red flag to me that you are unsure enough to need to post for advice on a forum on whether to buy or not.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[oldie48]

Actually I think any five year old with anything about them requires this not just Welshies. Having had a PB welsh, who was actually rather piggy and a couple of connies who were a complete delight. I know what I'd go for.

In my experience Welshies need the right owner; that's somebody firm, fair, consistent and respectful.

 

[HashRouge]

I used to ride a 4 year old warmblood who did this, I called it the duck and run routine. He often threw in a small rear as he was doing it. He wasn't nasty at all, just highly strung, excitable and very opinionated. I never minded it because I might not be the best rider in the world but I have good balance and quick reflexes, so I usually got hold of him fairly quickly and directed him back the right way. He did have one of the other grooms off once when he did it though. I think so long as you have good balance and don't get nervous about that sort of thing it's fine. It's also fairly easily sortable - the horse I mentioned gradually just grew out of it, although he'll still do it occasionally. If the horse is right in every other way it certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Highly unlikely to get a Connie for 1.5k tho.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Have a trawl through dragon driving, plenty of horror adverts but there are also some worth a closer look at.

I would not buy another welsh cob, even one that did not have a naughty streak. They are great for younger riders but if you are looking at downgrading and having a pleasure horse I think there are easier types out there.

 

[gothdolly]

I think I have seen him on preloved. He sounds like he needs a very experienced owner, and the advert seems very honest about his owner being unable to cope with his ridden behaviour if its the same one we are both looking at. I think for 1.5k you could buy a youngster who was not already frightening his current owner and developing bad habits.

 

[oldie48]

Haha, I knew there was a reason that connies were quite expensive!!

Highly unlikely to get a Connie for 1.5k tho.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Haha, I knew there was a reason that connies were quite expensive!!

Well there seems to be 1k added on top of normal horse price for "potential" and another 1k just because it's a Connie. Never had one myself as I like the mystique of the Welsh too much

 

[Flame_]

Hi guys, I'm currently horse shopping and have found an ad local to me for a rising 5 y.o. Welsh D who looks like just the type I'm looking for.

However... Seller says he's babyish (understandable) and has had her off a few times in the school running and spinning.

Would you guys interpret that as babyish or a bit mean? I am experienced but haven't encountered this one before. Should I arrange to view or run?!

How specific is "just the type you're looking for"? If you just want a young native there will probably be another along in 5 minutes who doesn't run and spin but if you want a section d, specific height, type, attitude, age, colour, bloodlines, etc, and you can stay on general young horse antics then go and have a look!

 

[Boulty]

Could be worth a look as it may just be that the rider is half asleep and isn't very good at anticipating or it could be that the horse sees invisible monsters around every corner that he must escape from and that he gives no warning when he decides to take evasive action. (If the latter may be he needs more work than you'd like to take on). If it's going to eat away at you then go for a nosey, if not then wait until a horse without established bad habits comes along (in a way something that's perhaps not done a lot for its age may be a better compromise as at least you get a blank canvas to work with)