Runs per season

[H-J]

I wont be running that much all season. August they will only run once at Smiths which is lovely ground. And in July they prob wont run as much if the ground is hard. It all depends what the weather does.

Or I will take one, one week then the other the next. We all have plans but they never go to plan!!!

Been lucky that she hasnt had to run on any hard ground at all this year, which I can hopefully say at the end of the season too, I WONT run her XC if the ground is too hard

 

[pootler]

I must say that Stratford Hills has a reputation for being like concrete. My horse went there a couple of years ago and it was baking hot and rock hard. That was the year that Pippa Funnell lost Laspen Rock Star on the XC.

To be honest you wouldn't catch me running a horse there again unless they had done a lot of work on not only the xc course but the showjumping arena too.

 

[H-J]

And it must be the ground around here that is so much better with a much better grass covering as I know many people including trainers I have had who have run their 5yr olds at least twice a month all season.

And every one on my yard runs at least 14-15 times a season.

And we all know our own horses, as the owners and riders we are the only ones who know what is best for them

 

[H-J]

[ QUOTE ]
I must say that Stratford Hills has a reputation for being like concrete. My horse went there a couple of years ago and it was baking hot and rock hard. That was the year that Pippa Funnell lost Laspen Rock Star on the XC.

To be honest you wouldn't catch me running a horse there again unless they had done a lot of work on not only the xc course but the showjumping arena too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree it is hard, but I was schooling there a coupel of weeks nack and spoke to the guy who owns it and alot of work is being done to ensure better going this year.

Alot of professional go there, Sarah Cohen has 4 horses in the PAVO 4yr old, would she take them there if it was that bad? Maybe she would im not sure!

 

[KatB]

Pro's need to run the horses to act as a shop window and get them sold. Makes no odds to them if they break in 2yrs time with new owners.

 

[tigers_eye]

I usually run according to bank balance. The one time I withdrew a horse cos of the ground I went and lamed her later that day cantering her on the hills instead so perhaps I should have run

.

William has run 11 times so far in 3 seasons, yes he started as a 4 yo, but PAVO 4yo classes don't have an optimum time xc so you really can take it easy.

I do think we are very spoilt in this country, as someone else pointed out with the Americans. In Belgium we never really gave two hoots about the ground, we were just grateful for the odd run. Admittedly it was less of a concern there as many events ran on ground like Smiths Lawn.

BBs - I am not sure I agree with you about Highclere's ground, I thought it was hard with little grass cover when I did it in 2000. Maybe they have fenced it off as a permanent track now?

 

[H-J]

Pros dont sell all the young ones though.

Obviously they sell most but they do keep the odd one - and that one would have run the same as the others they apparently dont care about breaking down in 2 yrs time??!

 

[SpottedCat]

QR

After all this discussion about ground, you do realise it will probably now rain from June to September (as we have had summer already LOL) and we will all be whinging that places are cancelling....

 

[BBs]

Holly you seem to have to justify yourself the whole time.
You clearly stated you aim to run your horses 3 times a month if not twice. Either way that’s either 18 or 12 times a season.
Fine if you are riding a seasoned campaigner but we're not! We are riding young horses, horses that are still growing in strength and stature.

I don’t care if *trainers* are competing their 5 year olds at least twice a month, doesn’t make it right.
You have to remember they are professionals, half of these 5 year olds are owned by ppl other than the rider! and if it is a riders horse they are sold so to them as long as they have a decent record it doesn’t matter to them if they only event for another 3 seasons and then brake!

Like I say no skin off my nose if you run 3 times a month.

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Pros dont sell all the young ones though.

Obviously they sell most but they do keep the odd one - and that one would have run the same as the others they apparently dont care about breaking down in 2 yrs time??!

[/ QUOTE ]

Would they though? Be interesting to know I think - I've never followed the careers of enough young horses to know which stay with the pros and which get sold to amateurs and the corresponding number of runs they get as a young horse, so you may be right.

Or it may be that the pros have sat on so many they can spot the ones which have the potential to go further and are likely to be kept, so run them less.

Mind you, one well known pro is running their horses a lot this season and winning a lot and other pros have commented on this and how it will be interesting to see how sound they stay in the future, so perhaps most pros care more than we give them credit for?

 

[H-J]

I agree, people in Australia/America run on hard (by our standards) all year.

 

[KatB]

Yes but how manyof these horses do you see competing late into their teens without doing a leg/having to have forcible time off. Pro's have a string of horses and are wanting to get to high level as quick as possible as it is results that put food in their mouth. Horses that run less as youngsters will carry on alot longer. IMO, I have a whole lifetime with my horse, so why contiuously push them? Hence why I will be seriously picky about where I run my horse.

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]

BBs - I am not sure I agree with you about Highclere's ground, I thought it was hard with little grass cover when I did it in 2000. Maybe they have fenced it off as a permanent track now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh really, didnt go in 2000. They only started PN in 2002.
Ground was good 2005 and plenty of grass coverage.

 

[H-J]

I dont contonuosly push them! Who said I did!

BB's - I feel like I have to jusity myself the whole time as some people have said that I have an endless supply of horses and basically dont care which is rubbish!

I know my horses especially Spider and I take upmost care of her she is wrapped in cotton wool!!! And I have her for the long term. I stated before my ideal plan! Which would be running at least twice a month. I dont think there is anything wrong with that. but obviously if the ground is hard, rutty, mum is away, I am away then that will change!

 

[KatB]

I didnt say you were continuosly pushing her. I was referring to your reference of the amount of times pros run...

 

[Iestyn]

We venture north in search of better ground - you'll have to come and stay with us!!! Well done at Mattingley - lovely course there. It was the first BE event I ever visited when we lived down there!

 

[H-J]

Sorry KatB didnt realise you was talking about the Pros

I dont actually think there is any study into young horses running lots with the pros and then breaking down, maybe there should be.

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry KatB didnt realise you was talking about the Pros

I dont actually think there is any study into young horses running lots with the pros and then breaking down, maybe there should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Impossible to do in a proper scientific fashion - too many variables.

But from an 'anecdotal' point of view it would be v interesting to know!

 

[H-J]

Yes I think it would. To see if there is any difference.

Although I maybe run more then a few people on here do (not that, that is wrong) I do certainly run less then the pros do, so would be interesting to know how long their careers go on for

 

[KatB]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont actually think there is any study into young horses running lots with the pros and then breaking down, maybe there should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at records.... horses that run less go on for alot longer without significant gaps in their history.....

Although alot will be sold to true amateurs anyway so will then only run a few times a season from then on, but as I know people like you, BB's and I wish to progress with our horses and go up the levels, I personally believe taking time will be more beneficial in a long career for our horses.....

 

[Whispa]

Quick reply

Re Laspen Rock Star's tragic accident, it happened at Brightling not Stratford Hills.

I used to run about 10-12 times a year (youngest horse I evented was 7 when he started). Tried to stagger it so I didn't run on consectutive weekends, but sometimes that didn't happen if events were local to me, but never ran more than 2 weeks on the trot. (Bank balance couldn't cope with anymore!) Think the most I did was 1 event per month in July and August as it was generally harder, and only because they were local to me and were run on good old parkland. However its so long ago that we used to have proper seasons and far more rain than we have had this year!!

Also as this was back in the early/mid 90's, it was rare for venues to have all weather surfaces so everything was run on grass!! Plus I didn't have a all-weather school at home - just had grass fields, so the horses and I did get used to riding on grass as we didn't have many other options!!

Pro's who are producing horses for the long term seem to run them carefully and do a few events fairly close together but perhaps at a slower pace and then give them a short break from competitions. I remember reading that this was what the likes of Mary King, Ginny Elliott (nee Leng, Holgate) and some of the other established stars tend to do, who are thinking for the long term career of the horse, rather than selling them quickly.

 

[Bossanova]

Grinder ran 19 times last year. Now thats probably extreme but he had to keep going once he started, some horses just need the continuity and it helped him come on a lot. He never ran on bad ground but we did pick and choose his events carefully.
The most Boss ever ran in a season was 11 times but he didnt need to keep running. Moon will probs do 13 or so this year, if the ground is ok

 

[Silgram]

In his prime Ed ran 12ish times a season. Personally think once every two weeks is enough. He now runs once a month.

 

[Thistle]

Willough has done 6 so far this year 3 PN and 3 Nov, she has another Nov entered, she will probably do 3 or 4 PC events over the summer, or possibly a bit more BE, then back to BE for the autumn. She will also do PC area's in Tetrathlon (BE Novice course) and SJ (1.10m) and possibly Burghley PC team jumping. She will also do enough PC rallies to qualify for teams. She does not get worked hard in between, just ticked over, and never gets hammered on hard ground. Last year she did the MKEC 3 day, but probably won't this year as we are hoping to travel to Fiji in October.

I strongly believe that horses legs only have so many miles in them, hence if the ground is iffy she will do he fitness work cantering in the school and will only jump on a surface at home.
I also try to chose events carefully for the ground.

 

[jellybaby]

Interesting debate this….
I haven’t got anything to event myself nowadays, so I thought I’d look up the record of Over to You - who I think we can all agree is probably a good example of a horse that is still running at a high level at an older age - therefore Jeanette’s record with him is probably a good example of a pro running a horse successfully.
So…..

1993 He ran at PN - N seven times
1994 He ran at N-I Seven times
1995 Int - Adv 11 runs including 2 x ** 3DE
1996 Adv 12 runs including 2 x ***3DE
1997 Adv 9 runs, including 2 x ***3DE although WD at Blenheim
1998 Adv 10 runs 2 x 3DE Badminton and Europeans at Pratoni
1999 Adv 9 runs
2000 Adv 8 runs
2001 Adv 6 runs
2002 Adv 7 runs
2003 Adv 7 runs
2004 Adv 8 runs
2005 Adv 9 runs
2006 Adv 4 runs

I think that gives everyone a good insight into how a professional brings on a young horse to top level. Obviously every horse is different, and some require more runs than others, but my hunch would be that its appropriate to run a horse approx 10 times a season.

Hope people find that useful.

JB xx

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]
We venture north in search of better ground - you'll have to come and stay with us!!! Well done at Mattingley - lovely course there. It was the first BE event I ever visited when we lived down there!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you hunny.
How did somerford go?

I love mattingley, but without that rain we could have been withdrawing.

I would like to come to somerford, always looks such a nice course.

I will be taking you up on that offer

 

[Nickymac]

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly believe that horses legs only have so many miles in them, hence if the ground is iffy she will do he fitness work cantering in the school and will only jump on a surface at home.
I also try to chose events carefully for the ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, as it's not just about the events but all the fitness work you need to do before you even start at an event. I think it was Blyth Tait that said "speed kills" when referring to fitness work and soundness, yet you need to get them fit enough to compete. More and more organisers are realising that us riders will vote with our feet if the ground ain't right, so they're going to have to spike or water to get entries.

 

[BBs]

Very interesting JB, thank you.

Boss, Grinder may have done 19 last year, did he run xc at every one as well? Also how many events has he done this season....zero! so its not as if hes doing 19 again this season.

Like you say, you are planning to do 13 but subject to ground.

 

[Nickymac]

That is very interesting, but apparently Over to You was a complete superstar from the very beginning, hence he didn't need as much mileage as some lesser horses might to teach them the job. I don't suppose you can find a horse that a pro has bought from an amateur part-way through it's career, just to see the before and after. I can't think of one.....

 

[H-J]

But if Grinder had been eventing this year he may have done 19 again, that isnt wrong though, obviously works for him.

My plan is also subject to ground (maybe I said my original post wrong) all plans are subject to ground etc