SACKED

[SantaVera]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-59728476

 

[SantaVera]

Good news

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Good news. Feel for her family though.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I hope you never lose hold of your Temper even for a second in you life. Yes this wasn’t a good thing to witness but I’ll bet you have felt frustration and acted out. Everyone has at some point in their life. She wasn’t at work, she didn’t hit any children this shirt moment of frustration that she more than likely felt bad about later (as we all do) has lost her her livelihood. I hope you and karma are good

 

[Birker2020]

This would have involved a multi agency Position of Trust meeting I would have thought as the perpetrator is in a position of trust with children.

The fact that she has allegedly abused an animal would have bearing on her job because she would be thought of as possible danger to children.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

This would have involved a multi agency Position of Trust meeting I would have thought as the perpetrator is in a position of trust with children.

The fact that she has allegedly abused an animal would have bearing on her job because she would be thought of as possible danger to children.

this to me wasn’t animal abuse this was a short fit of frustration. Anyone involved with horses has had one, they are lying if they haven’t. We are all human.

 

[Birker2020]

I hope you never lose hold of your Temper even for a second in you life. Yes this wasn’t a good thing to witness but I’ll bet you have felt frustration and acted out. Everyone has at some point in their life. She wasn’t at work, she didn’t hit any children this shirt moment of frustration that she more than likely felt bad about later (as we all do) has lost her her livelihood. I hope you and karma are good

She is in a position of trust and her actions would have instigated a multi agency Position of Trust meeting. Regardless of the fact the alleged abuse was targeted towards an animal, the very fact that she has allegedly abused an animal would have bearing on her job because she would be thought of as possible endangerment and threat towards children. Losing ones temper so easily could happen in a teacher/child role.

I agree we have all smacked our horses, or most of us have in the heat of the moment. When Lari bit me the other day he got a smack. Horses are big animals and are required to have boundaries. It is not he first time he has bitten me and even though it starts as a playful tug of the sleeve that develops into a nip he has been warned many times. So I smacked him. It would never develop into anything other than a light tap on the nose or shoulder and I wouldn't for example get my whip out and beat the living daylights out of him, nor would I kick him. But I am not in a position of trust so it is not in the public interest to suspend me at my place of work.

 

[SantaVera]

big difference between chastising the horse for biting or whatever --it needs to be corrected--and abusing it for doing absolutely nothing like this vile woman did in public. makes you wonder what goes on behing closed doors. I think anyone defending this womans activities should question whether or not they are in a position to own an animal its indefensable what she did to that poor horse and anyone supporting her is horrid too
imo.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

She is in a position of trust and her actions would have instigated a multi agency Position of Trust meeting. Regardless of the fact the alleged abuse was targeted towards an animal, the very fact that she has allegedly abused an animal would have bearing on her job because she would be thought of as possible danger to children.

I agree we have all smacked our horses, or most of us have in the heat of the moment. When Lari bit me the other day he got a smack. But I am not in a position of trust.

I am, I’m training a youngster, so should I lose my job because he’s stood in my foot and I’ve smacked him to get off, I’ve been in a position of trust most of my life. Get a grip and stop being sanctimonious.

As I said I hope all you who feeling good about this are good with karma.

 

[SantaVera]

ha ha LOL remind me to never sell you or anyone like you one of mine! No wonder the general public think horse people are not so good with people like you defending the indefensable and thinking its ok people like you shouldnt even own a hamster let alone a horse. I also expect that you like tearing defenseless foxes apart for fun. your type usually does, makes them feel big hitting animals because they are so inadequate in normal everyday life. Sad acts.

 

[Birker2020]

I am, I’m training a youngster, so should I lose my job because he’s stood in my foot and I’ve smacked him to get off, I’ve been in a position of trust most of my life. Get a grip and stop being sanctimonious.

As I said I hope all you who feeling good about this are good with karma.

A smack is a bit different from losing it completely, screaming abuse,and smacking a horse across the face and kicking it in front of a crowd of onlookers.

I am not being sanctimonious at all. I am explaining the position and why she has been sacked.


ADDED LATER: She will have been aware from her safeguarding training (which is mandatory training that all teachers and nursery workers undertake every two years) that her actions were wholly inappropriate. I can understand why most people would not understand that, I would probably feel the same as you had I not worked in the position I did when I was minute taker for a 'Position of Trust' Team with the Local Authority and gleaned this knowledge. I would have thought ' well she only smacked a horse and not a child'. However, she clearly knows behaviour such as this is totally off limits.

The safeguarding training she has undertaken would have been discussed in the POT meeting that would have been held and it would have been thoroughly determined what she had undertaken. Any gaps in learning would have been suggested but it was obviously a case where additional training would not have made any difference to the situation and I expect this was why it was determined by all parties (multi agency input) that she should be terminated from her position as teacher.

 

[SO1]

I work for a charity and not with children or animals.

I would probably get sacked if I did something like this. We have a clause in our contract which covers our behaviour outside work. Any behaviour which might impact on the reputation of the charity.

 

[greenbean10]

A smack is a bit different from losing it completely, screaming abuse,and smacking a horse across the face and kicking it in front of a crowd of onlookers.

I am not being sanctimonious at all. I am explaining the position and why she has been sacked.

100%. How anyone can’t see the difference between what this woman did and smacking a horse when it’s done something wrong is beyond me.

I’ve lost my temper with my horse and giving him a smack (and felt bad about it after!), but kicking it and smacking it multiple times in the face is inexcusable. Not to mention the fact that the horse didn’t even do anything wrong.

 

[pistolpete]

Abuse is abuse I’m pleased she’s been sacked. No one is perfect of course but she knew there were people around watching and didn’t give a s!t who saw in that moment!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I can understand that what she did was probably out of frustration but it makes you wonder what else someone is capable of when put under pressure.

I think that's the point of it she displayed a lack of control and when you work with kids it's not acceptable, I can imagine a lot of parents wouldn't be happy with her being responsible for there children.

 

[sbloom]

I can understand that what she did was probably out of frustration but it makes you wonder what else someone is capable of when put under pressure.

I think that's the point of it she displayed a lack of control and when you work with kids it's not acceptable, I can imagine a lot of parents wouldn't be happy with her being responsible for there children.

This. I feel we're going a bit too far, and that this is now a surveillance nation, without even worrying about cctv. She stepped over the line, for sure, what she did was pretty vile and needed a reprimand, but I think sacking her seems OTT. If there was evidence that she behaves like this routinely then that's a different matter. I don't know anything about safeguarding so it's only my perspective.

There but for the grace of God go all of us - this is where the line is now, but where will it be drawn next time? The slap on the nose for biting? Is +R (something I'm a big fan of, and bear in mind I don't have my own horses these days anyway) the only threshold for acceptable behaviour with animals?

 

[windand rain]

I am actually horrified by that decision what she did was wrong but to be sacked due to a social media trial is abhorrent. Perhaps there is more to it but the gist of it is someone filmed a moment in time and she lost her job scary stuff

 

[eahotson]

I hope you never lose hold of your Temper even for a second in you life. Yes this wasn’t a good thing to witness but I’ll bet you have felt frustration and acted out. Everyone has at some point in their life. She wasn’t at work, she didn’t hit any children this shirt moment of frustration that she more than likely felt bad about later (as we all do) has lost her her livelihood. I hope you and karma are good

Agree and unless their was more to this than meets the eye all I can say is I have seen MUCH worse at shows, sometimes in the ring.

 

[eahotson]

At a show I saw a quite well known show jumper do the following. He ran out of steam at an approach to a fence,he is a big lad. He upended his whip leaned across and dealt his horse a very hard blow on the ribs.Nothing was said. I complained to the BSJA and pointed out that it was all on camera.They did reply and say they were looking into it but he is still going. That horse must have had quite a bruise the next day.

 

[Birker2020]

I am actually horrified by that decision what she did was wrong but to be sacked due to a social media trial is abhorrent. Perhaps there is more to it but the gist of it is someone filmed a moment in time and she lost her job scary stuff

Please read my reply (reply 7). She was not sacked due to a social media trial. Her employee would have had to follow employment guidelines and safeguarding guidelines as I explained in my reply.

 

[smolmaus]

At a show I saw a quite well known show jumper do the following. He ran out of steam at an approach to a fence,he is a big lad. He upended his whip leaned across and dealt his horse a very hard blow on the ribs.Nothing was said. I complained to the BSJA and pointed out that it was all on camera.They did reply and say they were looking into it but he is still going. That horse must have had quite a bruise the next day.

You reported it, you did what you could, the fault lies with the BSJA. It is unfortunate that a lot of institutions will sweep things like this under the rug or look the other way because they can't be bothered. If more people made a point of complaining and filming things it would be easier to push for punishing this kind of behaviour.

I do think there is a difference between an over zealous correction (I do still think what you describe is wrong) and what was seen on video here which was a woman just losing her temper and taking it out on a horse who had actually done nothing wrong at all.

 

[Upthecreek]

I am, I’m training a youngster, so should I lose my job because he’s stood in my foot and I’ve smacked him to get off, I’ve been in a position of trust most of my life. Get a grip and stop being sanctimonious.

As I said I hope all you who feeling good about this are good with karma.

I think that’s unfair RC. There is a difference between using discipline in a calm and controlled manner for training and losing your temper and lashing out, which is what happened in this case - the horse did nothing wrong and the punishment did not fit the crime. I do not think what she did was is any way acceptable regardless of what scenarios you compare it to.

There are many occupations where behaviour like this outside of work is not acceptable because of the type of job they do and the negative impact on the employer’s reputation. As a parent I would certainly be concerned if she was my child’s teacher.

 

[Birker2020]

Agree and unless their was more to this than meets the eye all I can say is I have seen MUCH worse at shows, sometimes in the ring.

Yes but the difference is that that showjumper is not in a position of trust. He does not interact with young people in his role of employment. If he did then the same as I wrote in reply 7 would apply to him. All BSJA coaches also undergo safeguard training https://www.britishshowjumping.co.uk/training/Safeguarding-Workshops as well as anyone who works in a position of trust in a horse related industry.

Obviously these cases require referral by someone in order to set the ball rolling. A lot of our cases came via the NSPCC for example.

But everyone who is in a position of trust has safeguarding training and are aware of what is and isn't appropriate behaviour whilst away from their place of employment. Everyone who works with children and young people are aware of what it acceptable behaviour outside the confines of their workplace. So should not complain if they get sacked for something that is totally unacceptable behaviour. This applies to sports coaches, teachers, doctors, nurses, nursery workers, etc, etc.

An example would be if a nursery worker smacked her child in a nursery setting and was seen by a colleague and reported. If she chose to smack her child in the confines of her home this was acceptable (classed as reasonable punishment). But if she chose to smack it in a nursery setting it would certainly not be. A big no no.

It is illegal for teachers, nursery workers and child care workers to smack another person’s child. If a person is employed privately by a parent, such as a babysitter or nanny, the parent may give permission for that person to smack their child as long as it is reasonable and does not amount to an offence. Many people think of smacking as an old-fashioned and harmful practice, that only serves to reinforce the idea that violence is the way to resolve a problem or get someone to do what you want.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Please read my reply (reply 7). She was not sacked due to a social media trial. Her employee would have had to follow employment guidelines and safeguarding guidelines as I explained in my reply.

I take it that you meant her employer and I am not convinced that if she was employed under School Teachers Pay *Conditions, that her dismissal is legal. Of course she might not have been employed under STPCD, as I believe that she worked in a private school.

ETA, she was not filmed smacking a child. Your example of a nursery worker smacking someone else's child at work is so completely different as to be irrelevant. Under STPCD, employees can be dismissed if they break the law outside of work, hitting a horse is not against the law.

 

[eahotson]

Yes but the difference is that that showjumper is not in a position of trust. He does not interact with young people in his role of employment. If he did then the same as I wrote in reply 7 would apply to him.

Obviously these cases require referral by someone in order to set the ball rolling. A lot of our cases came via the NSPCC for example.

But everyone who is in a position of trust has safeguarding training and are aware of what is and isn't appropriate behaviour whilst away from their place of employment. Everyone who works with children and young people are aware of what it acceptable behaviour outside the confines of their workplace. So should not complain if they get sacked for something that is totally unacceptable behaviour. This applies to sports coaches, teachers, doctors, nurses, nursery workers, etc, etc.

An example would be if a nursery worker smacked her child in a nursery setting and was seen by a colleague and reported. If she chose to smack her child in the confines of her home this was acceptable. But if she chose to smack it in a nursery setting it would certainly not be.

It is illegal for teachers, nursery workers and child care workers to smack another person’s child. If a person is employed privately by a parent, such as a babysitter or nanny, the parent may give permission for that person to smack their child as long as it is reasonable and does not amount to an offence.

Cruelty is cruelty and while he may not work directly with young people he will be watched by many youngsters who will think if he does something like that it must be OK..

 

[Birker2020]

Cruelty is cruelty and while he may not work directly with young people he will be watched by many youngsters who will think if he does something like that it must be OK..

Oh yes I don't dispute that.

My partner in his role as Head Groundsman at a large equestrian competition centre in the Midlands used to do a lot of pole picking and collecting ring stewarding and saw abuse metered out on horses on an almost weekly basis in the show ring environment.

I remember stood next to him talking to him whilst he was pole picking at a BSJA event. A lady fell off her horse when it refused a fence during her round in the main arena and he immediately knew what was going to happen so had one of the lads cover him whilst he shot out of the arena to follow her into the collecting ring where she had borrowed a stick of someone and was knocking seven shades of s**t out of the said horse. He told her to leave the premises immediately and reported her to the show secretary.

But this thread is about a teacher who is in a position of trust being sacked for hitting a horse and I was trying to explain that the SJ wasn't in a position of trust.

 

[chocolategirl]

this to me wasn’t animal abuse this was a short fit of frustration. Anyone involved with horses has had one, they are lying if they haven’t. We are all human.

So if she’d lost her temper and ‘acted out’ as you call it against a child, would that also have been ok because ‘we’ve all done it’ apparently?

 

[ycbm]

She was not sacked due to a social media trial

Yes she was. If it hadn't been filmed and gone viral it would have been talked about locally for a day or two and forgotten.
.

 

[eahotson]

Oh yes I don't dispute that.

My partner in his role as Head Groundsman at a large equestrian competition centre in the Midlands used to do a lot of pole picking and collecting ring stewarding and saw abuse metered out on horses on an almost weekly basis in the show ring environment.

I remember stood next to him talking to him whilst he was pole picking at a BSJA event. A lady fell off her horse when it refused a fence during her round in the main arena and he immediately knew what was going to happen so had one of the lads cover him whilst he shot out of the arena to follow her into the collecting ring where she had borrowed a stick of someone and was knocking seven shades of s**t out of the said horse. He told her to leave the premises immediately and reported her to the show secretary.

But this thread is about a teacher who is in a position of trust being sacked for hitting a horse and I was trying to explain that the SJ wasn't in a position of trust.

Well OK but in the great scheme of things, while what she did was definately wrong it wasn't THAT bad. She should have been reprimanded and warned as to her future conduct but sacking her seems a bit OTT unless of course, she was already on a warning for something else and this was just the last straw.

 

[ycbm]

So if she’d lost her temper and ‘acted out’ as you call it against a child

She didn't.