Saddle Fitting - What am I missing?

Ambers Echo

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Well the saddler was due at 10. At 11:15 my friend texted him and he said he was running 'a bit late'. At 1 I gave up on him. By that time the arena was fully booked for the rest of the day with an external trainer running show-jumping clinics so no chance to ride in a saddle anyway. Infuriating!
 
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milliepops

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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I am not sure how anyone can think being over 3 hours late with no explanation is acceptable so another potential saddler off my list! My friend is still there waiting so I'll find out in the end what time he eventually pitches up.
yeah just so shoddy. I can accept someone being a bit late if life has intervened but you'd expect to be kept in the loop. Round here there's one very good fitter that I would use if I had a horse I wasn't confident to sort out myself, but she is one of those fantastically disorganised people that's impossible to get hold of and always running late. Makes it very difficult for clients then.
 

Ambers Echo

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I'm fantastically disorganised. But I am self employed and I don't book in more people I can genuinley fit in and I turn up to my appointments more or less on time. And people who say they are disorganised stull generally make flights when they are going on holiday or make it to gigs, clinics, events that actually matter to them. So I personally think being THAT late comes from a mindset that believes it's ok. Anyway back to the drawing board. I have been given a few names so I am sure I will find somone.
 

milliepops

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I have a sort of phobia of being late (I'm sure that's got a name!) OH is similar, he pretty much underbooks his diary and is always early, hehe. but you're right, if it mattered they could be on time most of the time. Hope the next one is more successful (and your friend gets sorted out)
 

AFB

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AE do you mind me asking who you were waiting on? I think you're fairly local to me and I only know of one male saddle fitter nearby who I'm not a fan of.
 

J&S

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I hate being late and I hate other people being late. I think it is a mark of disrespect. In this day and age/time you would think it would be worth any business person trying to keep their clients happy!
 

Louby

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I have resorted to collecting saddles :p after so many bad experiences. I am desperate to buy my girl her very own professionally fitted saddle but the thought fills me with dread! In the last year Ive had 2 Master saddlers out, first one said mine fit, I got them out as I had niggles it didnt, physio came and she was then sore behind, so 2nd saddle fitter came, different saddle fitted that kept going forwards, physio came, then she was sore in the shoulder area :( Did more research, 3rd saddle fitter booked, who let me down half an hour before they were due with a message. Never got back to me after asking to rearrange. I was happy to buy a new saddle off any of these so wasnt asking them to make good out of bad, if you get me.
So Ive now collected a few saddles in my quest to find one that fits and now need to get rid of them and am using one that IMO fits better than any Ive had fitted, slighty wide but padded out, not ideal I know.
All I want is a saddle that fits her properly, happy to pay, its such a nightmare that you cant trust the professionals.
 

sbloom

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And trust me, it's a minefield on the other side too. I thought all saddle fitters must be sh*te and doing a really poor job when I started this job. My how my eyes were open. There are a lot I think fit to a completely different paradigm to me, I don't agree with it, but they keep more of their customers happy than they don't. I have a really good reputation but I still have people that wouldn't touch me with a bargepole. I would have another side to those stories on the whole.

You must make sure they are master saddle fitters, they are bound by a strict set of guidelines. I'll PM you some details but as firms go locally, Village Saddlery or Crewe are the only people I will use

There are very few Master Saddle Fiiters - SMS QSF are more plentiful, and there is the MSFC too. The latter is more theory based, they're good on biomechanics etc, the SMS is more hands on and less theoretical. I am neither.

The only thing more to it is their abilty to assess your self doubt and how they are able to blag you into purchasing something you don't need.

Lunge in it - see if it lifts or moves. Otherwise if it looks right to you and horse says it's OK, it's OK.

Many saddles will run forwards on the lunge but be great with a rider on board, certainly with the horses I fit. I do not recommend taking much notice of what happens on the lunge, but if it works for you then that's cool.

Why not try thermal imaging to show the fit of a saddle

Because it's really not definitive that it can show saddle fit, it needs very careful interpretation.

I am a semi-retired pro rider, I used to ride up to 8 horses a day in one or other of two saddles. I have never had a horse with a sore back. I have also never used a saddler (Master or otherwise) for anything other than a reflock, in consultation with me not under direction by them :)

Saddle fit is not rocket science, despite all the guff I overhear being directed at novice owners, anxious to "get it right" - and of course you must make sure the saddle fits. Being able to tell that your saddle fits is just another one of the skills that seem to be beyond horse owners now, like feeding, lunging, leading, loading; absolutely basic stuff.

Many of the so-called expert, qualified "Master" saddlers have received a short course and watched some videos.

No, no Master Saddlers have years of training yet very very little in how to fit a saddle.

Ultimately if you have a real feel for how a saddle should fit, keep a close eye on your horse's shape, understand biomechanics, and see your horse every day so can watch for reactions, you can do a decent job, and it should in many ways be easier than trying to make sure everything's perfect in the hour or more than a saddle fitter has to get things right.

Unfortunately many horse owners are unable, or unwilling to do, much of that. There is so much to know about horses and it's not like it was in the past where people were immersed in it before they had their own, in sole charge.

This is so true. I know to be come a qualified saddle fitter with the saddle company at one point was only a day course.
Which for some people was OK but most struggled as soon as they didn't have a 'textbook' horse and rider to fit as couldn't adjust the saddle - both the tree and flocking) - to improve the situation as didn't have the experience, a few at home went this training route and very quickly ran into trouble and no longer fit saddles

It is a 2 day course, and one of those is a tour of the factory. But they are not qualifed, the word qualified is protected I believe, and is used by only the SMS and MSFC. Everything else should be "accredited", I have seen a SC fitter proclaim herself to be a "qualified saddle fitter" and made sure she stopped using the term.

There are many paradigms to saddle fit, the way I fit wide horses is quite different to how many do I suspect, go on reputation, experience, stock availability, reliability and if they can adjust onsite, and your FEEL, can you work with them, will they work with the team you trust. Ultimately is is teamwork and I get the best results in many cases where the owner is really on it and we can work with the back person, good in hand work etc.
 

soloequestrian

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Just had a thought after reading sbloom's post. When I needed to find a new trimmer for my horses I contacted the one I most liked the look of and went with her to a couple of visits to her clients - kind of shadowed her. I got to chat to her and see how she worked and then I was happy for her to come and do my horses. Perhaps that could work with finding a saddle fitter that you're comfortable with too.
 

cobgoblin

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Just had a thought after reading sbloom's post. When I needed to find a new trimmer for my horses I contacted the one I most liked the look of and went with her to a couple of visits to her clients - kind of shadowed her. I got to chat to her and see how she worked and then I was happy for her to come and do my horses. Perhaps that could work with finding a saddle fitter that you're comfortable with too.

Now I'm imagining saddle fitters turning up with a coach load!
 

Mari

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https://drkerryridgway.com/product/saddle-fitting-from-a-to-z-dvd/

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Sufferin...ering+in+silence+saddle&qid=1591605912&sr=8-1

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I have all of the above and have found them really helpful over the years. I can't believe the price of them these days!! I have new versions (bought duplicates in an Amazon haze at some point) of the top two that are heading for eBay so if they're of any interest/help to you just let me know.

It's really hard to explain saddle fitting as there is no one size fits all. For every saddle that *should* fit there's a horse who doesn't like it, for every saddle that shouldn't be near a horse's back there is one that goes well in it.

The basics are tree shape. Does it fit evenly along the back with no bridging or pressure points. Where are the points of the saddle and what is the angle at the pommel. How are the panels flocked, are they even, how much of the panel surface is in contact with the horse. Does the saddle move or rock. Does it lift at the back. Where is the central point of balance. Can the scapula move freely. How does the saddle fit statically and dynamically.

Then there is fitting the rider with seat size, width of twist, position of stirrup bar, length of saddle flat, position of knee rolls etc

Blinking minefield!

The ideal solution is to find a good fitter and be able to shadow them. Obviously not the solution here since there are no "good" fitters.

Poppy Webber is a saddle fitter and you'll find her on FB/Insta. She is doing a video series about saddles and I'm sure one includes how to check the fit. If you pop her name into a search bar I'm sure it'll come up otherwise you'll find her via PeeWee saddlery.
I’m currently trying to find a saddle for my Connemara. I know she needs a flat rather than curved tree but how do I tell what shape the tree is when I try a saddle on her? People selling 2nd hand Saddles never know what type of tree it’s on, often the saddle doesn’t have a reference number on it so the manufacturer has no record of it. (Just for interest, Ideal only started keeping records in 2008).
 

Michen

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On another note, me selling a brand new saddle on Facebook that’s only ever been girthed up. Buyer doesn’t even tell me where they are but happy to pay my petrol money. Yes because my time driving to you to faff around with you and your saddler is worth absolutely nothing!

People are unbelievable. I said no- why try and persuade otherwise!?
4B253FF7-6307-41AD-B919-71257C0EEB1C.jpeg
 

Michen

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Understand your position but in fairness if you don't ask, you don't get ;)

I’d never dream of asking personally and certainly not when someone had already said no to a trial.

Not my problem if they can’t buy the saddle without trying it first- go to a trial saddle bank etc!
 

Marigold4

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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I am not sure how anyone can think being over 3 hours late with no explanation is acceptable so another potential saddler off my list! My friend is still there waiting so I'll find out in the end what time he eventually pitches up.
What about trying one of the more modern treeless saddles? I too was fed up with saddlers after spending lots of money on saddles that didn't fit and waiting weeks for fitters to come. I now have a treeless. Still have to have a fitter to start with - and she has been excellent - but as long as you get the correct shape to start with, saddle fit is adjustable through pads and shims so any change or problem can be fixed without getting a new saddle. Mine looks like a normal treed saddle. I do everything from dressage to jumping in it - it is very stable and comfortable to ride in. I know others who event to a high level in theirs. Just a thought - certainly solved my saddle-fitting nightmare.
 
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