Saddles fitting = nightmare. So fed up!!

C

Christmas Crumpet

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When I chose to use Peter Lewis from Pointings I only heard good things about him. I now have a much clearer picture from lots of other people. If only I knew then what I know now!!

He fitted the first saddle to Bog and I got a second opinion from back lady who said it def. didn't fit (too wide in front and too narrow in gusset). Got him out again and he fitted an Albion K2 jumping saddle to him. He got this awful rash after hunting on Sat - some of you were right about saddle not fitting and rubbing him. I thought it was the numnah. Think it was a combination of the two. Back lady came out yesterday and went mental and said saddle definately didn't fit. He has huge shoulders so needs a straighter cut gp not forward cut. Saddle moves back in behind his shoulder blades and pinches so no wonder he was sore.

Rang Pointings yesterday and told them exactly what I thought and am sending saddle back via courier and not paying them a penny. The woman on end of phone didn't sound surprised at all and didn't protest at all. I think its not the first phone call they've had.

And he is supposed to be one of the top saddlers in the SMS. Back lady also has had to sort out 4 horses that Nathanial Underwood has messed up saddle wise.

Why on earth are these people so awful? I am considering contacting SMS and suggesting that all registered saddle fitters etc have to take a practical exam every two years or so to ensure that they meet the standards required. Its a joke.

I've used 5 saddlers now in Dorset and they have all been hopeless.

Am taking Bog to Nutwell Court today - Janet is the only person who has fitted a saddle correctly to one of my horses. I only didn't go to her because horse is a baby and I didn't want to buy a new saddle. Opinion has changed seeing as all second hand saddles we've tried have caused problems.

What else can I suggest to SMS to get them to sort out the problem with useless saddle fitters?
 
Bugger
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Peter Lewis can be an excellent fitter... but also can be completely the other way as you've found
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Know a friend that has used him in the past... Hope it gets sorted, but yes agree, finding a good saddler is a mine field
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I feel your pain really I do, I have similar problems (not with same saddle fitter of course) now I have resorted to offering to buy a friends saddle which I know fits him well (or did do last year) and I will pay what ever it takes for her to want to part with it, its a Frank Baines Balance Saddle (zenith) its the only thing that fit him him like a glove amd I refuse to ride him until I am 100% on the fit and I don't give a monkeys what any saddle fitter tell me now, hence why he's been turned away this summer.
 
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Sadly I am well out of your area but use Martin Wilkinson in Hertfordshire....great company.

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But there are plenty of people who have had problems with him too...
 
I'm sorry to say that your experience isn't unusual, I see it time and time again, all over the country from postings on HHO.

I wish it was as straightforward as getting people to re-sit an exam every couple of years but saddle fitting is a very subjective skill. What one person considers a good fit, another might not.

I believe that technology is the way forward, saddlers need to start using tools such as thermography http://www.equinethermography.co.uk/index.php
or http://www.equi-therapy.net/equi-therapy/saddlery/computerised-saddle-fitting.shtml


Ideally the fitter would work in conjunction with a physio. This is a perfect world scenario but would cost a fortune!
 
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And he is supposed to be one of the top saddlers in the SMS. Back lady also has had to sort out 4 horses that Nathanial Underwood has messed up saddle wise.

Why on earth are these people so awful? I am considering contacting SMS and suggesting that all registered saddle fitters etc have to take a practical exam every two years or so to ensure that they meet the standards required. Its a joke.



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I have never heard this about Nathaniel - interestingly he is the only person out of several I have used who I think has done a good job with my horse! And the back lady I use, who is also a saddler, asked who had fitted my saddles and was completely happy when told it was Nathaniel.

I agree that saddle fitting is a complete nightmare and there does not seem to be anyone who is consistently good at it.
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i soo feel your pain... i went for 3 months last year without a saddle because one of the top respected SMS fitters (i'll pm anyone who wants to know who
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) got it so wrong with my mare that she ended up throwing me off
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the pressure points took a good few weeks to heal from a saddle i trialled for 2 weeks.... i trialled 6 saddles in the end with this saddler - who ended up stropping saying it was the way i put them on and the horse was too fussy and i should just buy one and get on with it
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anyway - ended up going made to measure and have not looked back since... best thing i ever did.

one thing i will say is that old saddler banged on and on about width ... without considering her shape at all - she's actually got high withers and is a bit bum high so dips a bit in the middle - cue new saddler holding up numerous trees to her back to find a tree that was banana shaped enough... old saddler had been fitting regular trees that are actually too straight for her - bum pushed trees down into behind the shoulders - cue pressure points and v unhappy horse. old saddler never even considered the back shape - just kept shaking her head saying she didn't understand why horse was protesting as width was fine..... GRRRRR!!!

anyway - forward cut or not... my horse is built like a tank... she has the same tree in terms of shape against her back and points (but with different stirrup bar placements and seat depth etc) for both her jumping and dressage saddle - in BOTH she can move freely from her (overly large) shoulders... i need the dressage saddle to help my position
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her tree was designed for a friesian so you can imagin the size of her shoulders! moral of that little bit is- a correctly fitting forward cut saddle, with panels specifically designed for the horse - not for an average horse - will not pinch behind the shoulders
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oh - and i have my back lady out every 3months to check her back - earlier if i ahv any niggles about it - and she's v happy with the saddler etc - no probs since aug last year when i finally got the right saddle for her
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I also feel your pain.

I have had four recommended saddlers mess up when fitting Loki in the last 18 months, I have just had to buy my second new saddle and just hope its going to be okay, but I now have little faith left that any of these people actually know what they are doing
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That why I'll pay the travel to bring my saddler all the way to Herts when she is based in Swindon.
The back lady approves of my choice and doesn't have a good word to say about the saddle fitters local to me.
I think back people are a good source of information as they get an overview of the saddle fitters work as one good experience or bad experience doesn't say much by itself.
 
it was my back lady tat finally figured out my horses 'problems'. Unfortuantly for me out of the 6 brand new saddles i bought from the MS (qualified fitted and regarded as one of the best!) none of them fitted. I have lost thousands. I just sold my nearly new Momentum on ebay for £600
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another good thing is a port lewis pressure pad to check saddle fit - my back lady is getting one soon as she has so many arguments with saddlers - whereas that will settle them once and for all...
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When I realisied it was my horse's made to measure saddle causing him to rear over, and buck me off. (despite being assured by my saddle fitter the saddle was perfect, apparently it is normal to loose your saddle cloth out of the back of your saddle!!!!!!) I asked my physio who he would reccommend, and what particular makes of saddle he thought would suit. On his reccommendation I used David Baxter from Throstlenest, I got an Albion K2. My horse is so much happier and hasnt bucked or reared once since, and seems to be jumping better than ever. So why don't you ask your horses physio who they would reccommend??????
 
This is why I fit my own saddles.

I buy them all second hand too.

NEVER, EVER had a back problem EVER with ANY of my horses in over 10 YEARS!

Had to get a fitter out once to work out what work needed doing on a saddle for a horse who's back was not symmetrical - we knew what the problem was before she arrived.

So.

Why can't other owners/riders learn themselves what they need to know in order to fit saddles? Why is everyone so dependent on these so called 'experts' who, at the end of the day, just want to sell you a saddle? And don't really give a toss about the horse?
 
I had several saddlers to Mick when I first bought him and I think I was given terrible advice.

Then I had Laura and Peter Hay from Bridlepath and never looked back. They are brilliant.

I would give them a call and see if they come out your way.
 
Sadly I have heard this story plenty of times
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Sorry to hear you didn't have a good experience with Peter, he did a great job fitting my cob cross but I guess some fitting styles fit some horse shapes better than others? Try Wadswick country store in Wilts, they also offer a great service.
 
WHY SADDLES TODAY DON’T FIT !
This is my own opinion and may not be everyone else’s and I am sure you will tell me of this!
I hope it helps people understand why sometimes Saddlers can’t find the right fit, it has happened to me loads of times and when it does all I can advise the customer is to recommend that they go down the custom made route IF the Saddler can find a tree to fit.
NO Saddler should make a sale for the sake of it (greed) the horse’s health and welfare ALWAYS comes first, it is better to not make a sale than to hurt a horse.
I don’t make custom made saddles these days, as I can’t compete on prices so I leave it to the big companies to fill this gap.

In particular flat backed horses (and high withered with big shoulders), these days have so many problems finding saddles that fit them so to try to explain I am going to give you a little history lesson.
The Saddlery industry (treed saddles) is stuck well and truly in the 19th century, yes there are new manufacturers coming out but they are still in the early stages (WOW and carbon fibre trees etc) and because riding is steeped in tradition it's hard to retrain and convert people to other ways of riding (treeless etc).
I believe treeless came about only because the true craft and skills of the saddler have been undermined and lost through modern massed production and cheap labour.
Years ago, a traditional working saddler would have visited the stables , taken measurements of the horse and rider, tried various saddle trees on the horse until he was happy with one, measured up the rider, taken into consideration the age and experience of the horse and rider and asked numerous questions they would need the answers to, then he would have gone back to his workshop and made the saddle that actually FITS the horse AND rider. Gone are those days I’m afraid with buying off the peg and off the net and hoping a massed produced saddle will fit your horse.

Saddles were originally made on treed saddles and in the "good old days" when men were men and ladies rode side saddle the main riding horses were blood types, like Thoroughbreds with high narrow withers and very little in the rhomboid muscle areas. If you think back to the old fashioned hunting type saddles (like the ones I was trained to make many years ago) you can see that practically one type and shape fitted most Gentleman's riding horses. The native type horse or pony, heavy horse, cobs, crossbreeds etc were mainly used “put to” harness pulling farm machinery or vehicles or used as pack animals. When these type of horses and ponies were ridden it was by the working class and they often couldn't afford saddlery anyway so rode bare back therefore a saddle to fit the wider, flatter backed or big shouldered type of animals was never developed as it wasn’t needed, until now that is.
There are also horses today who have over developed trapezius muscles making them a nightmare to fit a saddle to with conventional trees.

As riding has become ever more popular all sorts of shapes and sizes are ridden but as the saddlery trade is still making saddle trees that fit horses with highish withers and not much in the rhomboid or trapezius areas it is quite often hard to find a saddle to fit.
Most trees today that are used in mainstream saddlery have a cut back head to allow room for the high withers and because of this the shape of the tree is completely unsuitable for a flat backed animal or a high withered big shoulder (trapezius) and filled out rhomboid muscles area so even if you have a extra wide tree if it’s got a cut back head, then the chances are it won’t be right for your cob etc. The points "elbows" which is all wrong for wide horses and high withered big shoulder animals .
Saddle fitting can be a nightmare as some of you have found out.
Occasionally we find a perfectly fitting saddle still makes a horse go crazy, when this happens as someone else as said earlier it is a good idea to work with a good physio to establish why the horse is reacting.
Sometimes there is an underlying old injury that will make the horse react to even the best fitting saddle in the world. I have also seen unfit horses being suddenly thrown into too much work and not being built up slowly, again the best fitting saddle in the world wil gaul them!
Best approach I find to horse and customer is to try to treat them both as I would like to be treated and think about how I would feel with a saddle on my back that wasn't right!
We as Saddlers, will never please all the people all the time so all we can do is try our hardest!
Hope this helps?
Oz
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Free lance and NON SMS (don't like them!)
 
hi Oz
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wise words - see - it took a sadder to come out and do all that you say traditional saddlers used to do to get one that fits my mare... he measured her and me - held up numerous trees against her back - and found one to fit - then made the saddle to fit the both of us - and all for the same price as an off the peg jeffries
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what scares me though is that he immediatly saw the problem - the shape of the tree - whereas old saddler just banged on and on about width and had no other dieas as to what could be wrong...
 
Unfortunately, some Saddlers are no more than saddle "fitters"with 2 days or whatever it is now training with the SMS!
A REAL Saddler has in depth knowledge of how the saddle and horse are made and usually years of experience.
Saddle fitters dont have to have this knowledge, some do,some don't and you take pot luck with who you have out!
Not saying I am perfect, far from it, I have made mistakes a nd have always gone back and sorted it out. I learn alot from my customers some of whom are very experienced with horses, we are never too old to learn and the best judge of any saddle fitting is the horse itself, they are the first to tell you it isn;t right!
Saddlery, design, construction and fitting, is a life long lesson and I have plenty to learn still!
Oz
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Unfortunately, some Saddlers are no more than saddle "fitters"with 2 days or whatever it is now training with the SMS!
A REAL Saddler has in depth knowledge of how the saddle and horse are made and usually years of experience.
Saddle fitters dont have to have this knowledge, some do,some don't and you take pot luck with who you have out!
Not saying I am perfect, far from it, I have made mistakes a nd have always gone back and sorted it out. I learn alot from my customers some of whom are very experienced with horses, we are never too old to learn and the best judge of any saddle fitting is the horse itself, they are the first to tell you it isn;t right!
Saddlery, design, construction and fitting, is a life long lesson and I have plenty to learn still!
Oz
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alas the first saddler i tried is v high up in the SMS... and quoted often enough in magazines etc that you'd have thought they wouldv'e known....
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in retrospect warning bells should have rung when they fitted saddle to horse with no saddle pad then said - now get yourself a nice full wool numnah to use under it - i recommend to everyone i fit to use one.... *headslap*
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Unfortunately, some Saddlers are no more than saddle "fitters"with 2 days or whatever it is now training with the SMS!
A REAL Saddler has in depth knowledge of how the saddle and horse are made and usually years of experience.
Saddle fitters dont have to have this knowledge, some do,some don't and you take pot luck with who you have out!
Not saying I am perfect, far from it, I have made mistakes a nd have always gone back and sorted it out. I learn alot from my customers some of whom are very experienced with horses, we are never too old to learn and the best judge of any saddle fitting is the horse itself, they are the first to tell you it isn;t right!
Saddlery, design, construction and fitting, is a life long lesson and I have plenty to learn still!
Oz
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Good post Oz.
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I must add that my saddle fitter will NEVER sell a saddl that does not fit,never does money come first. He is an excellent saddle fitter, and has always instantly corrected any minor mistakes he may have made.
 
Good donklet, I am glad to hear it!
There are always good and bad out there in every trade and we all make mistakes, the secret is to put them right as soon humanly possible and learn from it!
Oz
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I just wanted to add this. I'm not the biggest fan of saddlers in general, but to be fair to them, they are up against it when it comes to all the wonky horses! A lot of back problems in horses are commonly unfairly attributed to badly fitting saddles when they are really due to (often bi-lateral) hind leg lameness.

Also all the times a horse is short striding in front and people like to try blaming a "pinching" saddle, when its actually just as likely to be front foot pain. If anyone thinks they may have saddle issues, its a good idea to borrow one to see if the horse's action changes at all before investing in a new one, just to perhaps be a bit clearer whether the problem is really the saddle, or if its the horse!

Good luck OP, saddles are a pain.
 
In my experience for every saddler that some-one raves about another person will tell you not to touch them with a bargepole.
 
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In my experience for every saddler that some-one raves about another person will tell you not to touch them with a bargepole.

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aren't all horsey things like that though
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regarding the saddlers up aginst uneven horses etc - it's pretty darn obvious when horse goes beautifully on lunge and bareback... only to start bucking and tail swishing under saddle
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regarding the saddlers up aginst uneven horses etc - it's pretty darn obvious when horse goes beautifully on lunge and bareback... only to start bucking and tail swishing under saddle
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Not necessarily obvious at all. The horse may well have back pain, evident when a rider gets on, but the back pain is not necessarily caused by the saddle. It can be caused by compensating for other problems. As to the horse "going beautifully on the lunge" without the weight of a rider, many horses with problems will be a lot happier.

I know so many people that when their horses have started resisting, they've done the back and teeth checks, then are told they need a new saddle. Six months later in the new saddle, horse is still resisting and the real problem becomes evident.

I'm not saying that it isn't often the saddle, and if you treat the back pain, borrow another saddle and the horse is happy, there's your answer, just don't assume if a horse is uncomfy in its back its always because the saddler's fecked up.
 
Coming from a totally different angle has anyone seen the new Quantum saddle? For me it is the most amazing piece of science. When they showed it to me I thought they had brought a prototype to work on!!!!!! We have 2 horses that have been impossible to fit for 12 months, the Quantum is absolute perfection & totally different to any other saddle I have ever seen. Best bit is in 5 mins it can be altered by colour coded strips. So if you buy for a young horse it doesnt matter if it changes shape. The saddle changes with it. Take a look, I would love to hear your views. www.quantumsaddles not sure if .com or .co.uk I love em
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