sand school riding surface??? the big question !

[captainmark]

Hi all, after renting for a long time we have finally managed to buy our own land and are intending to construct a sand school (assuming we get planning). Heavy horses for leisure and pleasure only - need to keep them schooled and of course fit in the winter when riding is limited. Riding surface therefore doesn't need to be for competition training etc!!! Simple / easy / long lasting / cost are I guess the key points. Its not going to get a hammering as personal use only!

Subsoil is clay so plenty of drainage, geotextile, 200mm of 40mm clean primary stone, geotextile, 150mm riding surface is the current thought process. Big question is what riding surface?? Heading towards conclusion of sand only; but concerned about losing it to the wind as in an exposed position. (will plant hedge to eventually form windbreak and will put something there in meantime but still vulnerable). Thinking a coarse gritty sand less prone to wind when dry and which will also drain. Also need to look at sand shape which sub-angular seems to be best option?**

** found this interesting article: https://premierequestrian.com/horse-arena-footing/all-about-sand/

Many opinions can be found on the internet but extremely variable and so far yet to find any consistency or what appears to be reliable advice!! For example sand only can be too abrasive / but also not. Rides too deep & tracks bad / but doesn't. etc etc!!! (they have big feet so hopefully not going to sink too much & trip when dry??)

Also looking at rubber chips / textiles but not convinced with these at all. Rubber seems will also stink for a while! Suppliers say its stays on top of sand - but sinks when dry then comes back to top again when it rains. Don't disbelieve this and not a problem - but to me the recommended silica sand base then exposed at worst time and blows away!! The textile supplier has said this will never dry out and blow away - I find ‘never dry out’ hard to swallow – what happens during a hot summer?! They also said it doesn’t contain fines / foam but sample had both in!! Also concerned with both these options environmental issues including disposing / replacing over time – assuming this would be necessary as have read in a few places both likely to break down into a mushy mess!?!? Again never know what to believe?! Is there anything else I've not yet discovered?

Any thoughts and experience on this topic would be much appreciated please. (particularly the gritty sand idea). We can’t afford to do it twice!!!

Many thanks…………….

 

[coss]

I haven't got my own school but have used several in the local area. I think you need to consider that in winter it's wet and do you get much ice? Sand alone can get very hard when icy. Rubber on the surface can be very rideable in very cold I've known a sand school local to me take weeks to thaw out once the cold got into it. I don't know exactly what sand different people used - it looked the same stuff but one was very deep and one was patchy - some of it seemed quite thin and firm and other bits very soft and deep. the course sand is abrasive but the feet can become used to it. The wind makes gritty sand brow about and it's dusty in the eyes! Rubber doesn't seem to move nearly so much. Getting the drainage right is key. the good surfaces i've ridden on have had a firm base with a softer topping. The rubber can sink if it's soft sand but less likely too if its a firm (too hard to ride on) base...

 

[Bob notacob]

Firstly, forget that top layer of geotextile. It will cause you nothing but grief. Surface straight onto well rolled and whakerplated limestone scalpings. Sand mixed with fibre and wax is ideal though you will need to add wax every few years. Chopped carpet and sand isnt too bad either .HOWEVER ,whatever you go for , the school must be built LEVEL to the top of the scalpings. If it isnt ,you are simply pissing in the wind . You might as well burn the money. Rubber chips are a complete pain and need constant remixing with the sand . Carpet and sand is least prone to freezing ,but ultimately all schools will freeze if the temperature is low enough for long enough. Plain sand is a complete waste of time,whatever grade of sand used. Sanbd needs to be thoroughly washed to remove the clay as this will block your membrane and drainage in short order.

 

[soloequestrian]

We did our own one about 6 years ago and I'm very happy with it. It has herringbone drains dug into the soil, then a smooth woven membrane then about 4 inches of hardcore stuff (don't know the size) then a fleecy membrane so the surface doesn't slip on it, then the surface. I started with 4 inches of sharp sand but it rode very deep. I don't think hoof size would make a difference to how deep the surface rides! I added about 20 bales of carpet fibre and now it rides really well and needs very little maintenance. I haven't had any bother at all with the membrane, though I wouldn't turn out onto the surface - occasionally the horses have got in there by mistake (before we had a mains fencer) and when they roll (or rather, when they get up from rolling) they can get down to the membrane and damage it. It did freeze a lot this winter but we had exceptionally long cold spells - most years I only lose a few days to frost.

 

[milliepops]

Plain sand is a complete waste of time,whatever grade of sand used.

this is my experience too. In the winter it freezes solid and in the summer it's like riding in sand dunes. Horrible!

I've found sand and fibre to be a satisfactory surface. We have flexiride at the yard I'm on now and that is super low maintenance, same to ride on in all weathers and fairly economical, might be worth a look. I don't like it much for advanced dressage but for low level all round use it performs well.

 

[southerncomfort]

Ours is sand with rubber chips on top. Lovely surface to ride (ponies seem to like jumping on it) and didn't freeze during the winter.

The only downside is the horses kicking the rubber chips out of the gate on their way out which means a slightly 'bald' patch there which we will have to top up at some point.

To be honest we didn't use it half as much as we thought we would for riding in the Winter, however it's been an absolute god send for turning out when the fields were too wet.

 

[Oscar]

Our school is approximately 15 years old, we are on clay, and no clay does not drain well, you will need proper French drains or the clay will compact and hold the water. Our surface is sand and rubber chips, I don't know what grade of sand it is but when dry the rubber dissapeared into the sand but was better fir being harrowed weekly, and when dry rode too deep, we have big horses and the bigger they are the deeper they go. The cheapest option to try was to add more rubber, we added 20t of rubber to our 20x40 and haven't looked back it's been brilliant all last summer, and all this winter, there hasn't been 1 day the school has been frozen or unusable.

The key to any good sand school is to get the best sub angular, washed silica sand. I've only heard good things about flexiride and equestrian x ride I think it's called. But I think you'd be better with good silica sand and rubber.

 

[sport horse]

We have a silica sand and rubber manege. It has been down for 20 years and is used daily by at least 6 horses for schooling and jumping. It sits above the level of the surrounding land - (which is clay). This last winter we were only unable to use it when it was covered in snow. The last couple of years it has formed a puddle on the lower edge after the excessive rain but this has drained away after 24 hours. The correct silica sand is critical otherwise it will be very deep in dry weather. Sand on its own will freeze like a rock. Current veterinary research is going against waxed surfaces.

 

[foxy]

My land is clay and when my arena was built they didn't dig out the area but simply levelled it and then put drains in. This is the most important thing to get right as if the drains don't work properly it will affect what ever surface you choose. Originally the surface was just sand but as others have said it can ride deep and freezes in winter, I added rubber to it and it has been great every since.
Mine was built by a local drainage company.

 

[JoannaC]

We are having one built in June and i've decided on sand and fibre, the fibre will be rotavated in after the sand. We are also on clay so drainage is key. We are on a slight slope so are cutting to fill.

 

[captainmark]

thank you all for your thoughts

Hi JoannaC - sounds like you have had similar thought process! May i ask please what fibre / % mix / from where / rough cost?? And have you looked at type of sand? many thanks...Mark

 

[Eceni]

Current veterinary research is going against waxed surfaces.

Hi, Sport horse - do you have any references for the research against wax surfaces? I’m assuming it’s damaging tendons, but would be interesting to follow up.

Thank you

 

[asmp]

Not read all the replies but used to be at yard with a lovely big school, which, as it was sand based, froze in ruts in the winter making it unusable - the one time we wanted to use it as we couldn't use the roads

 

[captainmark]

we finally got there - thank you for all your thoughts / comments. have just replied to a similar question - copy below. hope it helps someone somewhere!

Hi all, we have finally started using our school just a few weeks back! Was built May/June time - long wait but worth it......... surface is 6" sub angular silica sand, which then needed lots and lots of rain to bed down - assisted with leveller. (we dont have mains water yet - on the way!). Patience is so frustrating! We then had combi-ride dual stabliser mixed in. Results so far are impressive. A ridiculous amount of time was spent researching - there are so many opinions out there (including from so called professionals). It wasn't easy but so far happy we made all the right decisions and happy to share if it helps others......

Ensure silica sand and that it is sub angular (the shape is crucial). Bought a £20 microsope to plug into laptop! Chose slightly coarser (W60) than many use. Having obtained samples quite clear it was less prone to blowing in wind when dry - was an element of risk in case it didnt pack down as well but worked out fine. This was important as we are quite exposed. In theory it could dry out quicker however. (one of the reasons to add stabliiser as it holds onto moisture). Suggest talking to local quarries direct in addition to surface suppliers. Check first load is correct too before they tip!! Getting the wrong sand will be a very expensive mistake. Round grains will roll around (think mini marbles) and angular will pack down too tightly creating a hard surface and will struggle to drain. Think of the season too when you have sand delivered - if sand very wet you are paying for more water and less sand !!

sand on it's own was our original hope knowing we probably needed to add something. Which we did - on it's own probably too loose when dry (and dries quicker) and probably too hard when wet. Our understanding is it will more readily freeze and take longer to thaw too. With tines on a leveller with fibres it should break up easier. Not yet experienced a deep freeze however

With regard to what you mix in - spoken to numerous suppliers and looked at many samples. we even mixed in with sand - dry and wet. I believe a lot of products will just 'float' to surface and blow away as many didnt seem to bind in - which they need to do to work. IMHO a lot of these were complete rubbish (literally!) - many of which quite clearly weren't going to mix in properly and do what they are meant to. The theory is I understand is whatever you use works a bit like grass roots holding sand together. (Which ours seems to be doing very nicely). One sample even contained foam that the company concerned said they didnt use!! Be very careful - getting this wrong will again be very expensive. Rubber chips by the way we dismissed - you will need to research but as I understand there are environmental issues / EU rulings etc over using it. And it stinks! We were interested in chopped (small) electric cable insulation - have seen this before and seemed good but don't know what else was in sand. But the only company selling it don't answer the phone or emails so gave up in end!! Interested if anyone else knows any more? There is another one selling it cheap but having looked at images on line didn't go anywhere near it - guessing risk of wires still present?

For the leveller again having researched extensively we came to the conclusion not to use a car to tow (we bought a second hand ride on lawnmower without the blades - ie a cheap mini tractor) and to use a proper adjustable leveller - managed to get an arenamate type one with tines second hand. Tines currently removed but think may need them if frozen or packed down too hard - if indeed either happens. Time will tell................ Original plan was to use car and a chain harrow (tines up) - but having spoken to a number of people seems this is not a good idea and and arena will soon be out of level! Also isnt going to drag surface in from kickboards when it rides up - which it will. Another expense not budgeted for but can't cut corners with poor maintenance after the money spent!

and for anyone starting from scratch:

Below the surface don't scrimp either! We went over budget on the whole thing - go too cheap and it won't work and the money will be wasted. Value for money is key! Do it once and get it right!

We used a decent groundworker. They had trenchers which made a great job of drainage channels. Talking to various arena companies i wasn't filled with confidence as they didn't want to divulge exact details of what they were offering and feel short cuts were likely. Less money but they didn't want to give us what we wanted and asked for! You get what you are given / this is our standard product attitude. Be cautious. Some will of course be fine no doubt. Ensure you understand how an arena works and know what you want

We had plenty of drains as on clay (nowhere else for water to go!) with the collector drain outside the school on the low (40m) side so should in the unlikely event we have problems way in the future we can dig down and jet out as needed. Ensure membranes and drainage stone correct. Stone will of course vary depending where you are in country. Not too small as the gaps act as reservoir, and not to big as won't pack down as well - need flat surface for the membrane and you dont want it to settle later. And enough of it !!

We have built on a slope - corner to corner dropped about 500mm. Avoided cut and fill however avoiding settling problems later. Many people will tell you this is fine but we didn't want to take the risk - in our opinion (and the groundworkers) this is a real (very expensive) risk. No spoil removed from site which is costly. we have built a bank on 2 sides which looks great.


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think i've gone on enough now!! As you may have gathered this almost became an obsession getting it right!!! Hope my comments will help others with time and decisions.....obviously not professional advice and only our opinions / conclusions!!.......... I did ask for comments on this forum way back during the planning / design process which was helpful - so will update with same! if i think of anything else I'll be back - really must do some work now!