Sarcoids

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Do you know if the treatment is painful for the horse, please? Thank you

Not painful that I’ve seen. The horses I saw treated didn’t even bother even when the sarcoids started to be expelled

 

[Cloudcomet]

How long has he been on the oily herbs?

Around 3 or 4 months

 

[Cloudcomet]

Yes will try to do pictures. Fortunately mine was very good about having them done. They are fairly nasty so I’ll try to message them to you. It’s saying photos too large. I’ll have a go tomorrow as got to go out now.

Thank you

 

[DabDab]

Mine is not a story with a happy ending, but just sharing in case it is helpful because I know how devastating it is. Also just to say that I tried all remedies mentioned above except the Facebook treatment over the years, and would put them all in the category of potentially useful for a low grade sarcoid or two but large ulcerating sarcoids are a different beast and you are dealing with a fairly angry, aggressive cancer at that point.

I had my wonderful horse Dabs pts because of sarcoids last year, age 14. He had had them in various places for years. Some had been treated in a variety of ways, with some coming back, some not, and a couple of fresh ones appearing that were then left and sat benign for years (all inside of back leg area). Then in December 2022 a couple of the ones that had been treated back in the day started growing at an alarming rate and by late Jan 2023 were about 3 inches long and an inch wide, as well as intermittently ulcerated. Vet went away to consult with any sarcoid expert she could find to assess options.

I was offered a surgical option - GA removal and lasering of the roots and surrounding tissue. But as I talked through this option with the surgeon and my vet it became apparent that given the location and size of the sarcoids this was going to be a fairly brutal procedure. He would have been in the hospital for a week after the operation to have chemotherapy cream applied to the site a couple of times a day, which they expected they would have to sedate him for because he would be in so much pain, even with IV painkillers. After this he would be discharged home to me with open, exposed wounds between both back legs, which would effectively be open burn wounds and would be extremely painful and incredibly vulnerable because of the large blood vessels in the area. And he would have just bute for pain relief at that point while I tried to keep him comfortable and keep the flies off those wounds with no dressing.

Add to that the prognosis was not great - liklihood of them returning estimated to be around 60%, at which point it would be the end of the road anyway.

I agonised long and hard over the decision and desperately wanted to give the treatment a go to have a chance of keeping him around (wasn't remotely bothered about ever being able to ride him again at this point), but in the end I just couldn't put him through it. I'd never have forgiven myself if his last few months on this earth had been filled with medical interventions and pain only for the sarcoids to come back or others start growing and him having to be pts anyway.

He was pts sometime around the end of April, by with point the sarcoids were about 6 inches long and 1 1/2 inches round and were dripping blood and pus most of the time. As devastating as it was, because you never think that's how you're going to lose a horse, I'm certain that it was the right decision for Dabs given how bad they were at the end. Sorry you are in a similar predicament with your horse

If you would like I can put you in touch with my vet who will be able to advise the various experts she spoke to on my behalf. The surgeon who was prepared to try operating on my boy consults at a variety of big hospitals (so travels about a bit) , including Three Counties which is where I would have sent Dabs.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have only experienced very mild nodular sarcoids that came up on Arabi's hind leg when he was about 12, I just kept an eye on them and after about a year they went on their own.

He did get another in his nostril a few years ago but that again has significantly shrunk and you can't really notice it now.

I was told by a vet in Newmarket that alot of sarcoids are related to low immunity, so quite often they spread get worse through times of illness or stress and being run down.

I didn't use any treatments on his so I can't comment on that, but I did make sure he was on a good full spectrum balancer and made sure nothing was lacking in that respect.

I also feed my horses on a low dose of aloe vera as this apparently helps to boost the immune system, and it can also sooth the gut and I do think alot of horses stress and problems stem from gut imbalance.

I also feed oily herbs both of mine have been on them for about a year now and I think they definitely help with gut function and overall seem alot happier.

 

[Anna Clara]

My horse’s small armpit sarcoid disappeared when I fed milk thistle, fenugreek, turmeric and black pepper. It just slowly got smaller. He was also on a feed with probiotics in and kept in a very low stress environment (living out with others). Currently got another with a strange jump so have just started again.

 

[Cloudcomet]

Mine is not a story with a happy ending, but just sharing in case it is helpful because I know how devastating it is. Also just to say that I tried all remedies mentioned above except the Facebook treatment over the years, and would put them all in the category of potentially useful for a low grade sarcoid or two but large ulcerating sarcoids are a different beast and you are dealing with a fairly angry, aggressive cancer at that point.

I had my wonderful horse Dabs pts because of sarcoids last year, age 14. He had had them in various places for years. Some had been treated in a variety of ways, with some coming back, some not, and a couple of fresh ones appearing that were then left and sat benign for years (all inside of back leg area). Then in December 2022 a couple of the ones that had been treated back in the day started growing at an alarming rate and by late Jan 2023 were about 3 inches long and an inch wide, as well as intermittently ulcerated. Vet went away to consult with any sarcoid expert she could find to assess options.

I was offered a surgical option - GA removal and lasering of the roots and surrounding tissue. But as I talked through this option with the surgeon and my vet it became apparent that given the location and size of the sarcoids this was going to be a fairly brutal procedure. He would have been in the hospital for a week after the operation to have chemotherapy cream applied to the site a couple of times a day, which they expected they would have to sedate him for because he would be in so much pain, even with IV painkillers. After this he would be discharged home to me with open, exposed wounds between both back legs, which would effectively be open burn wounds and would be extremely painful and incredibly vulnerable because of the large blood vessels in the area. And he would have just bute for pain relief at that point while I tried to keep him comfortable and keep the flies off those wounds with no dressing.

Add to that the prognosis was not great - liklihood of them returning estimated to be around 60%, at which point it would be the end of the road anyway.

I agonised long and hard over the decision and desperately wanted to give the treatment a go to have a chance of keeping him around (wasn't remotely bothered about ever being able to ride him again at this point), but in the end I just couldn't put him through it. I'd never have forgiven myself if his last few months on this earth had been filled with medical interventions and pain only for the sarcoids to come back or others start growing and him having to be pts anyway.

He was pts sometime around the end of April, by with point the sarcoids were about 6 inches long and 1 1/2 inches round and were dripping blood and pus most of the time. As devastating as it was, because you never think that's how you're going to lose a horse, I'm certain that it was the right decision for Dabs given how bad they were at the end. Sorry you are in a similar predicament with your horse

If you would like I can put you in touch with my vet who will be able to advise the various experts she spoke to on my behalf. The surgeon who was prepared to try operating on my boy consults at a variety of big hospitals (so travels about a bit) , including Three Counties which is where I would have sent Dabs.

I am so so sorry to hear your story. It sounds as though you made a very brave decision for your boy. Thank you for sharing this with me. My vet said more or less the same thing to me and I could not put our horse through that. He is a treasure and does not deserve any of it. He seems to be growing new lumps daily, at the moment and has a very worrying new mark on his neck too. He’s still in full competitive work at the moment though, which he loves, so I’m hoping he can continue for a while.
Thank you again for sharing Dab’s story with me, as heartbreaking as it was.

 

[Cloudcomet]

I have only experienced very mild nodular sarcoids that came up on Arabi's hind leg when he was about 12, I just kept an eye on them and after about a year they went on their own.

He did get another in his nostril a few years ago but that again has significantly shrunk and you can't really notice it now.

I was told by a vet in Newmarket that alot of sarcoids are related to low immunity, so quite often they spread get worse through times of illness or stress and being run down.

I didn't use any treatments on his so I can't comment on that, but I did make sure he was on a good full spectrum balancer and made sure nothing was lacking in that respect.

I also feed my horses on a low dose of aloe vera as this apparently helps to boost the immune system, and it can also sooth the gut and I do think alot of horses stress and problems stem from gut imbalance.

I also feed oily herbs both of mine have been on them for about a year now and I think they definitely help with gut function and overall seem alot happier.

Thank you for all this information, I was wondering about ways of boosting his immune system, I will look at aloe Vera.

 

[Cloudcomet]

My horse’s small armpit sarcoid disappeared when I fed milk thistle, fenugreek, turmeric and black pepper. It just slowly got smaller. He was also on a feed with probiotics in and kept in a very low stress environment (living out with others). Currently got another with a strange jump so have just started again.

Thank you, is this a supplement or do you feed these individually?

 

[Dam1]

Hi
if you are exploring the supplement route speak to Simon at Trinity Consultants. He is very knowledgeable and will be able to help you. x

 

[TheMule]

I totally agree with DabDab…. Feeding supplements and using herbal creams might help low grade sarcoids (that might have been on their way out anyway). But once they get to this point they are nasty beasts (let’s not forget, they are cancer) and really you have to be guided by the experts.

 

[Cloudcomet]

Hi
if you are exploring the supplement route speak to Simon at Trinity Consultants. He is very knowledgeable and will be able to help you. x

Oh yes, that’s a good suggestion, thank you! He’s helped us with other horses in the past

 

[Cloudcomet]

I totally agree with DabDab…. Feeding supplements and using herbal creams might help low grade sarcoids (that might have been on their way out anyway). But once they get to this point they are nasty beasts (let’s not forget, they are cancer) and really you have to be guided by the experts.

Yes, you’re right. I think I’m only going down this route so I feel like I’ve done everything I can.

 

[tristars]

Thank you! So it was just feeding a supplement? No topical application? We used the aluspray last summer to keep the flies off, it’s good stuff. Thank you!

also the immune system, i also gave ours echinacea and elderflower via a tea from supermarket, i take it myself and know it works, to boost the immune system

i realize your horse is in an advanced condition, but you are asking help, so there are loads of herbs such as marigold etc, i would give a complete vit and min supplement, and you might laugh many do, we also used water from a holy well noted for curing warts etc on two horses, now not as advanced as your lovely horse, however the one sarcoid was a bloody mess, and anyway after 6 years not returned

none of the above cause pain obviously. and i think the time scale for a naturally regressing sarcoid, with minimal intervention, is around 9 months in my experience

i have not put anything directly on any sarcoid except the aluspray so the regression must be the bodies own internal response

hope you can find a way through this, so sorry

 

[DabDab]

I am so so sorry to hear your story. It sounds as though you made a very brave decision for your boy. Thank you for sharing this with me. My vet said more or less the same thing to me and I could not put our horse through that. He is a treasure and does not deserve any of it. He seems to be growing new lumps daily, at the moment and has a very worrying new mark on his neck too. He’s still in full competitive work at the moment though, which he loves, so I’m hoping he can continue for a while.
Thank you again for sharing Dab’s story with me, as heartbreaking as it was.

No worries, hope the sarcoids on your horse stay manageable for a while. Totally get the wanting to try anything at all non invasive just in case, as I certainly did. It's a tricky one because lots of people say about immunity and stress and of course this is true and in lots and lots of cases minimising stress and boosting immunity and gut health will be enough, but not all, and it can make you feel a weird mixture of (potentially) false hope and like you have failed as an owner. But Dabs had a very low stress life and all the supplements, and nothing had changed in his management prior to those two sarcoids suddenly blowing up, so I'm fairly sure there was some other unknown factor as to why they suddenly took hold in the way they did... Just one of those things sadly, cancer of any sort is an unpredictable beast.

 

[BBP]

I’m in a similar position to DabDab. My horse has gone from not a hint of a sarcoid to massive ones, one the size of my fist over two years. Fortunately at this point they have not ulcerated or bled other than at the head of one where it leaks serum occasionally and they do not appear to cause him bother. We have also decided that treatment would not be ethical as it would require a massive area removed under laser, which would require a general anaesthetic rather than standing sedation, with huge chance of them returning more aggressively. I have tried sarc-ex and radiance gold and oily herbs which are all touted as supporting the gut/immune system to help fight the sarcoids, but his continue to grow. At the point they start to bleed, ulcerate or cause him distress I will let him go. My young horse also has them. I don’t know what I have done wrong or what triggered them as I have had my older horse for 15 years and his immune system has never been good, it seems to overreact to everything, bites, pollen, and now this virus. I’m scared to try topical things as they are currently in tact and so not open to infection/flies and as YCBM said, the margin is beyond the visible lumps, so I could open up a hornets nest. He has other issues too. It is pretty devastating. Horrid horrid things.

 

[Cloudcomet]

also the immune system, i also gave ours echinacea and elderflower via a tea from supermarket, i take it myself and know it works, to boost the immune system

i realize your horse is in an advanced condition, but you are asking help, so there are loads of herbs such as marigold etc, i would give a complete vit and min supplement, and you might laugh many do, we also used water from a holy well noted for curing warts etc on two horses, now not as advanced as your lovely horse, however the one sarcoid was a bloody mess, and anyway after 6 years not returned

none of the above cause pain obviously. and i think the time scale for a naturally regressing sarcoid, with minimal intervention, is around 9 months in my experience

i have not put anything directly on any sarcoid except the aluspray so the regression must be the bodies own internal response

hope you can find a way through this, so sorry

Thank you! This is so helpful, just the advice I need

 

[Cloudcomet]

No worries, hope the sarcoids on your horse stay manageable for a while. Totally get the wanting to try anything at all non invasive just in case, as I certainly did. It's a tricky one because lots of people say about immunity and stress and of course this is true and in lots and lots of cases minimising stress and boosting immunity and gut health will be enough, but not all, and it can make you feel a weird mixture of (potentially) false hope and like you have failed as an owner. But Dabs had a very low stress life and all the supplements, and nothing had changed in his management prior to those two sarcoids suddenly blowing up, so I'm fairly sure there was some other unknown factor as to why they suddenly took hold in the way they did... Just one of those things sadly, cancer of any sort is an unpredictable beast.

I definitely get the feeling, with our boy, that these sarcoids are on a set course and there’s not much we can do, it won’t stop me trying though and it’s really helpful to hear all the stories, even the tragic ones. So thank you very much

 

[Cloudcomet]

I’m in a similar position to DabDab. My horse has gone from not a hint of a sarcoid to massive ones, one the size of my fist over two years. Fortunately at this point they have not ulcerated or bled other than at the head of one where it leaks serum occasionally and they do not appear to cause him bother. We have also decided that treatment would not be ethical as it would require a massive area removed under laser, which would require a general anaesthetic rather than standing sedation, with huge chance of them returning more aggressively. I have tried sarc-ex and radiance gold and oily herbs which are all touted as supporting the gut/immune system to help fight the sarcoids, but his continue to grow. At the point they start to bleed, ulcerate or cause him distress I will let him go. My young horse also has them. I don’t know what I have done wrong or what triggered them as I have had my older horse for 15 years and his immune system has never been good, it seems to overreact to everything, bites, pollen, and now this virus. I’m scared to try topical things as they are currently in tact and so not open to infection/flies and as YCBM said, the margin is beyond the visible lumps, so I could open up a hornets nest. He has other issues too. It is pretty devastating. Horrid horrid things.

I’m really sorry to hear that you and your horse are going through this too. It’s just desperately sad that

 

[Cloudcomet]

I’m really sorry to hear that you and your horse are going through this too. It’s just desperately sad that

Our horses have to go through this. I really hope that your horses’ sarcoids stabilise and continue to be non problematic

 

[Jambarissa]

I'm really sorry to hear this. I do think it's good that your vets foremost concern is the best interests of your horse (I've seen too many prioritise the owners over the years).

I've had 2 horses with sarcoids, treated with the cream from Derek knottenberg (also known as Liverpool cream). Very successful, didn't come back. But I've also seen several horses on my yard where the cream didn't work and they grew larger. Laser was very effective where suitable.

I think there are at least 7 different types of sarcoids, then there are also warts which look identical in the beginning. I think lots of the success stories from poltuces of salt/toothpaste /turmeric are probably warts or the smaller wart like sarcoids.

I definitely support your efforts to treat him though. I'd go down the immune boosting route, equimins do a liquid supplement called detox which I've found very good when horses have been struggling. Deal with any gut issues and clean up the diet as far as possible to get his bacteria up to scratch, maybe feed a prebiotic too.

You're unlikely to completely cure them but maybe can stop things getting worse and some treatment can be used on a few problematic ones. Good luck with him.

 

[SpotsandBays]

I have removed 3 small ones with the sarcoid cure paste. They haven’t come back (yet - it was last year).
I also feed ginger root powder, sometimes also echinacea to try and boost the immune system
Edited to add: the Sarcoid cure paste didn’t cause any irritation, and as the paste was thick it did a pretty good job of keeping the flies off when it had dried

 

[copper72]

Hi Everyone
My daughter’s horse has started developing sarcoids over the last couple of years. He’s had a few of them treated with injections or cream, neither of which has really helped.
They are on is chest and are spreading into his armpits and also in his groin and on his sheath. I recently got our vet out again to look at them, expecting to get a program of treatment that we could undertake for him, but he said that, in his opinion, it would not be ethical to treat them as the sarcoids are so extensive and the treatment would be so painful.
I do completely trust my vet and understand where he is coming from, but it is such a devastating blow for us. This horse is just amazing and he and my daughter have just clicked, which has been beautiful to watch. We are both distraught that we are going to lose our beautiful boy.
So I’m just posting out of desperation really. Does anyone have any success stories of treatments that could work? He’s already having oily herbs as I’ve heard they can help to shrink them. Is there anything I can give him to boost his immune system, which might help him fight them off?
Many many thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give

Hi there. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It's heart breaking. Sarcoids are such insidious, horrid things. I've been treating one on my mare's shoulder for 6 years now. I manage it with xxterra cream which keeps it in check, but I've noticed a couple of other areas starting to develop tell tale signs.

I've just discovered a Facebook group called Sarcoid Trial. It's headed by a vet called Doug English, an expert in the field, who readily gives advise. His treatment principal is a topical paste made from tumeric and dmso. Tumeric is also added to feed as most of its work is done internally.

I find it helpful to connect with, and seek feedback from group members. I'm afraid I can't tell you how well the treatment works as I'm only just about to start it myself. Maybe your boy's sarcoids are too extensive for this treatment? but I just wanted to share. Best of luck.

 

[Cloudcomet]

I'm really sorry to hear this. I do think it's good that your vets foremost concern is the best interests of your horse (I've seen too many prioritise the owners over the years).

I've had 2 horses with sarcoids, treated with the cream from Derek knottenberg (also known as Liverpool cream). Very successful, didn't come back. But I've also seen several horses on my yard where the cream didn't work and they grew larger. Laser was very effective where suitable.

I think there are at least 7 different types of sarcoids, then there are also warts which look identical in the beginning. I think lots of the success stories from poltuces of salt/toothpaste /turmeric are probably warts or the smaller wart like sarcoids.

I definitely support your efforts to treat him though. I'd go down the immune boosting route, equimins do a liquid supplement called detox which I've found very good when horses have been struggling. Deal with any gut issues and clean up the diet as far as possible to get his bacteria up to scratch, maybe feed a prebiotic too.

You're unlikely to completely cure them but maybe can stop things getting worse and some treatment can be used on a few problematic ones. Good luck with him.

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences and knowledge. I think I definitely need to focus on getting him as healthy as possible in all other areas. I suspect he is an ulcery horse, so he is on a highly recommended supplement for this and now does look much better, shiny and well covered, with a usually good appetite. Many thanks again!

 

[Annagain]

A friend's horse has quite a nasty sarcoid where his sheath used to be. He previously had a carcinoma on his penis so had the whole thing removed about 8 years ago and now has a sarcoid there. He's had a biopsy and it's definitely not a carcinoma but I'm sure the two things are linked. It's big but it is just the one. After doing a lot of research she switched him to a very low sugar diet - old soaked hay and very low sugar, fibre based feed and Radiance Gold. I was really sceptical about the whole thing but the sarcoid does appear to be changing. It looks like it's starting to detach from his body. It might be a coincidence (I'm still sceptical to be honest but slightly less sceptical than I was) or it might actually be having an effect. While I think multiple ulcerated sarcoids are a different kettle of fish, I really don't think there's any harm in the diet he's on - the worst it will do is nothing.

 

[tristars]

i am sure there is some evidence that sugar feeds certain growths somewhere

i have used turmeric and black pepper in the feed, and started to dress a sarcoid with same mixed in a carrier cream bit stopped after a few days when it looked angry, and continued with oral mix

i also use protexin or similar to encourage a healthy gut for the immunity

 

[irishdraft]

I'm sorry to see this OP it does sound like the sarcoids are in a difficult place. My retired horse suffered from sarcoids from a 3 year old to about 15, they were mainly on the sheath and prepuce but also popped up in different places.They were all generally nodular which then ulcerated, I had them banded, put bloodroot on them and tried every supplement etc under the sun but nothing made any difference they still kept coming. Luckily for me I was able to continue riding etc my horse was retired 4 years ago now and I noticed that the sarcoids had all disappeared & now he is sarcoid free and has been for about a year. I'm now wondering if they have a relation to stress as this particular horse could be stressy & was always spooky but now he's just a home out in the field he has no stress anymore. Sorry no help to you as such with a competition horse and I hope you can find an answer x