Sat in hospital feeling sorry for ones self

[milo'n'molly]

Please don't default to the position in the photo on your old mare. It's not the best shot, since she's obviously left very long, and there are lots of things to like about the photos (your hands for one!) but you are actually behind the motion there, not balanced over your leg (lots of very good riders push their lower leg a bit forward as they fold in their xc seat and bring the hips back, but in those cases the lower leg is vertical or just behind and their body is balanced over it, they haven't been left with their leg out in front). In that pic you can see that seconds later you will actually be sitting on her back at the apex of the jump. If you look to "get a bit left" on your current horse, I can guarantee he won't take it well!

Work on your position. It's all very well to say other people don't or you haven't had to before but you've bought a very smart horse that's bred to jump well and you have to accommodate him, not expect him to lessen himself for you. I know that's not what people want to hear but this is the danger of buying performance bred horses, they will do what they are bred to do! And, alas, many will not take infinite pains while you learn so you have to learn FAST or risk getting hurt or diminishing the horse.

I'm sure you can get it done, you've worked on a lot of things up to this point and you're keen to make a change. (Perhaps keener than you were a few days ago. . . ) It can be done but it takes discipline and application, there is not magic one thing anyone can tell you. Find out what changes you need to make to your position - you've been give good advice but I still suggest you need to speak to your trainer about it and, if he/she is not that interested in teaching position (some very good people are not) ask for a referral to supplement your lessons. Perhaps also look into someone like John Pitts who does the riding fitness programs, or similar.

Sorry you're hurting. Rest up, take your meds, and then onward and upward.

I feel your pain (perhaps not physically) I have a 17hh bay mare with similar breeding also by indoctro. I wanted a really smart allrounder and she's fab, she hacks, does sponsored rides, is really brave, does dressage and her temprament is fantastic as she's responsive sharp not crazy sharp and she's a lovely "person". What is disappointing is I can't do jumping with her, it was never my main aim but I've been jumped off twice and come close on other occasions so its just not worth it for me but I have an otherwise fab horse bred to jump that is just too much for me.

If jumping is what you want to do then stick at it, improve your position and if possible get some schoolmaster lessons

 

[Goldenstar]

When are they letting you go home ?

 

[seabsicuit2]

I think the crux of the problem is the weight and fitness- It's impossible to be balanced and secure in the saddle unless you are slim and fit. My standard weight is about 8 3/4 stone, I am 5ft 3 ins so that weight is definitely not overweight, but I know for a fact that every time I get my weight down to 8 1/2 or under, my riding is ten times better, I feel so much more secure in the saddle and much more in tune with the horse. It's just so damn difficult to get down to that weight tho- but I feel I have to do it ! Fitness& suppleness is also so important too, and a big part of the equation. All riding seems to come so naturally and easily when you're fit, supple and trim.

 

[Daytona]

Hoping tonight at some point

I'm mobile on a Zimmer , albeit pretty slow, so hopefully they will let me go. I've requested crutches I'm a dan hand on crutches as had plenty of practise when on 3 months with last accident .

 

[Goldenstar]

Horses why do we do it.
Is there a Mr Ludoctro at least he knows what to do now having previous experiance of horse battered wife syndrome .

 

[siennamum]

I think the crux of the problem is the weight and fitness- It's impossible to be balanced and secure in the saddle unless you are slim and fit. My standard weight is about 8 3/4 stone, I am 5ft 3 ins so that weight is definitely not overweight, but I know for a fact that every time I get my weight down to 8 1/2 or under, my riding is ten times better, I feel so much more secure in the saddle and much more in tune with the horse. It's just so damn difficult to get down to that weight tho- but I feel I have to do it ! Fitness& suppleness is also so important too, and a big part of the equation. All riding seems to come so naturally and easily when you're fit, supple and trim.

Blimey, I'll give up now then.

 

[Daytona]

Golden star he hates horses , thinks they dangerous money eating machines, he would throw a party of I said oh I'm giving up horse riding

We both avid sports bike riders too , he believes the bike is safer than the horse, lol I am maybe starting to think he could be right

 

[Goldenstar]

I don't know my friend is a mad mountain biker she gets smashed up too.

 

[Goldenstar]

My OH has a horse but he's not great when I am smashed up he trys hard though and puts up with it without complaining much.
Well we can't complain we choose to do it just have to kick on , as much as you can on a zimmer.
I hope you get home it never seems as bad in your Own bed.

 

[Jenni_]

Sienna mum- to me the two point is the more upright position to the jumping position- with the shoulders more back and open and carrying the hands. I find it easier to go from this to jumping position, than sitting to jumping position. Maybe I didn't make that clear and maybe I have a different definition to other people...

 

[Daytona]

Oh I meant motorbike sports bike, I think if I come off that I might not live to tell the tale, hubby had a accident, 3 weeks in a coma - so really he can't moan too much, touch wood - I've nae been hurt as bad as that by a horse

 

[Goldenstar]

Well thats good if you see what I mean ,you have credit in the injury bank.

 

[Daytona]

Lol

 

[TarrSteps]

Sienna mum- to me the two point is the more upright position to the jumping position- with the shoulders more back and open and carrying the hands. I find it easier to go from this to jumping position, than sitting to jumping position. Maybe I didn't make that clear and maybe I have a different definition to other people...

Do you mean with the seat in the saddle? That would be the three point position, by the common definition.

Two-point is not about riding around in the same position as you would be in when the horse is at the top of its arc over a decent sized jump, it's about staying in balance over the horse's centre of gravity but with a light seat. In actual fact a rider should have access to a variety of "seats" and be able to use them appropriately, depending on the horse and the situation.

While it is true that top sj riders don't gallop around leaning forward for the sake of it, many do ride in a light seat for the majority of the course. This does not make any particular seat "right" or "wrong". Horses do have preferences too, though.

 

[emmab13]

Nobody has said it yet, so I'm going to.

Why, (if your position consistent with the pictures you've shown us) is your instructor putting fences up to 1.10m?

From what I can see, you have a lovely horse who wants to jump. You have had lots of bumps in the road including a nasty accident which you are still recovering from.

What's wrong with taking this summer to do lots of low grids, working on keeping your hands in front of your shoulders, securing your lower leg, and jumping round BNs safely?

You will still have a lovely horse in 6 months, and will have the tools in your toolkit to ride him to his potential.

 

[blood_magik]

something similar happened to me last week so I can sympathise.
it was totally my fault but it still flipping hurt

lots and lots of practice will get you there.
I was (and still am) in the same position - new horse with a massive jump who's the complete opposite to my old boy. I had to hoick my stirrups up a few holes and change the knee rolls in my saddle to make my lower leg really secure and now it's just practice and lots of lessons.

hope your not too sore for long.

 

[Daytona]

Emmab13. Because its not happening all the time only some times, and more so when jumps larger , I don't lose my balance too much over small fences

But yes I do agree with you I've decided to take a step back stick to BN height and really work on get good stability in myself over fences

Then I will try bigger , coming down grids I seem to have a better position , I think because I can really think about me rather than the horse . I think some more easy grids will help me


It's still very early days I've only really been back jumping proper a few months so your right no real requirement to rush me or horse, he not going to lose his talent in 1 year unless I screw his head up but hopefully I won't. I would give up long before I allowed that to happen anyway

 

[Mike007]

Pedals definately way too long . You cant get away from his back coming up after a big jump.I would bet that the disaster usualy happens AFTER the front feet have hit the ground.Its not about the height of the fence either. A big horse has to jump big ,even over a small fence.

 

[Daytona]

Taken on board mike, pedals getting substantially hiked up


I do take on bored what folks say and wiki will defo give it abash , as soon as I bk on board hopefully in few days

 

[ecrozier]

I've come to this a bit late - but am just going to echo what the others have said. I've also got a big jumping young horse with a VERY powerful back end, and (although I didn't actually buy him, my OH did!) I've struggled to remain in balance with his jump. He's been off jumping a year now after a mystery lameness but if and when we can get going again, my plan is to change my saddle for something with a flatter seat, hoik my stirrups up another 3 holes (previously jumped 2 holes up from flat) and do lots and lots of work at 80/90cm, before moving up.
Luckily I do have my older, less extravagant boy to keep my hand in and have been working lots on my jump position on him this year so am hoping can transfer it. Am praying his saddle will fit Roo now when Roo comes back to jumping as I love my old school Albion XC saddle!!

 

[Ilovefoals]

Hey! Hope you feel better today Well as you know, I know nothing about jumping but I'd say judging from what I've seen in the past, it's when you are not riding forward that you have these issues with him. I think it's been said before that his canter is still quite long and flat at times and it seems that when he's lacking that bounce (impulsion), and forwardness that he often chips in a short one catching you off guard as you are already tipping forward expecting him to take off. Then because of his extravagant back end over a fence, you get fired up his neck. I think you need to stick to smaller fences and work on his canter. Get it adjustable and punchy and bouncy. I think that is the key and things will improve a lot if you can get him to be less flat and long. I'm not expressing myself well but there was a recent video of you at the Cabin and I held my breath a few times as he was so strung out into some fences it gave me heart failure (tho I am the words biggest wuss). Maybe post the link to that and see what people who actually jump think? Anyhoooooo, You guys have come miles together and tho I think you're nuts, I really admire you!!

 

[Daytona]

Ha ha not sure what video u mean, I think maybe u mean rowallan video.??

 

[Daytona]

Do u mean this one.?


http://youtu.be/DSAl9nt8vbw


Our 1st discovery class few weeks ago.?? I don't have any videos of cabin jumping

 

[Laramy80]

Hope you're feeling better today!!

I'm a bit late to the thread but I'm up in Aberdeen too, and from the pics have definitely seen you and Ludo at the Cabin, he is a lovely boy

If you're looking for a coach who will be a stickler for your position then PM me as have a good suggestion.

 

[BBH]

I think the crux of the problem is the weight and fitness- It's impossible to be balanced and secure in the saddle unless you are slim and fit. My standard weight is about 8 3/4 stone, I am 5ft 3 ins so that weight is definitely not overweight, but I know for a fact that every time I get my weight down to 8 1/2 or under, my riding is ten times better, I feel so much more secure in the saddle and much more in tune with the horse. It's just so damn difficult to get down to that weight tho- but I feel I have to do it ! Fitness& suppleness is also so important too, and a big part of the equation. All riding seems to come so naturally and easily when you're fit, supple and trim.

Like Geoff Billington you mean


Ludoctro - I remember your early posts about your boy and I have to say I'm so impressed with your commitment to progressing together. If you don't mind me saying you are clearly someone who bought a horse with more talent than your riding could match but whereas most people would have thrown the towel in long ago you keep persevering and progressing.

I personally think the way forward means getting the coaching spot on with the right person, preferably someone who can school Ludo whilst simultaneously teaching you so he is developing independently from you which in turn should help you.

I really admire your commitment to each other and I'm sure you'll go from strength to strength.

 

[jeeve]

I dont know much but reading the lower leg comment, the kids instructor advised them to close the lower leg over the horse just a bit before the jump, stops it losing prosition/slipping back - it helped my kids heaps, esp as one of them always lost his position a little over the jump, when he does this (and had more contact) he was fine.

 

[Ilovefoals]

Yeah that's the vid. He's just young and weak. Lots more to come from him. Just don't let people rush you

 

[TarrSteps]

Just to be blunt. . . I think more than a few people have brought up the issue of coaching not because your current instructors aren't doing a good job for you, but because they feel you may need a different set of eyes to most quickly and easily get through this stage. I know you're not getting jumped off all the time, or even often, but you don't look secure in all those photos and I think people are genuinely concerned, in principle, that you are being pushed to jump higher without being held to your basics. 1.10 is where things start to happen with most horses, and where the margin for error begins to narrow. A coach is supposed to encourage you, of course, but he/she is also supposed to give you the benefit of greater experience and to help you see the longer term repercussions.

No one is saying you need to change but you will have to be blunt with your instructor that you need to make some changes and he/she needs to figure out how best to make that happen.

Not to the OP, but to the general conversation, it's quite difficult to teach adults now. Teaching is increasingly consumer driven but even if it wasn't, no one can 'make' an adult do anything. Students/customers often tell instructors what their intentions are re competitions etc. and this can be misinterpreted by instructors as, effectively, 'I'm going to do what I want, even if you don't think I'm ready/safe.' I know it's not MEANT that way, it's just that part of the conversation gets left out. Sometimes instructors have to have some help finding the balance between keeping students happy and educating them most effectively! If you're struggling or confused or feel you are not getting the right emphasis TALK to your instructor and ask him/her to concentrate more on the areas you perceive to need work. It might not go amiss to also say that you won't pull up and go home (instructors worry about this not just for economic reasons but because you can't help someone who isn't taking instruction) if you're told something you don't want to hear. As previously discussed in another thread, this DOES happen, that people avoid instruction because they feel 'judged' or because they aren't getting what they need, but those situations almost always come down to a lack of communication.

 

[Daytona]

Bbh yeah my pro dressage lady schools him on flat for me sometimes

Also the SJ gets on him too in lessons.

I was meant to be doing a two day BS this weekend but of course I can't but the pro eventer who originally took him for schooling when I had the initial issues is taking him to one of the days and popping him round the BN & Disco class, as we don't want him to go back wards with too much time off as I'm out of action

So he does get pros on his back still guiding him the correct way.

The SJ instructor I use is fab and has helped me a lot as I said I've been out of action on the BS seen since summer 2010 only picking jumping back up in jan this year so I'm rusty and remember I'm no super star this just a pastime for me , I try my best but face facts I'm
Never going to be some super star rider , nor are most armatures just a lot don't realise it lol

It's fun and I enjoy it , I love my horse and I try my best to do right by him and get the best support and help I can

That's all I can do really.

As someone pointed out yeah I believe I did buy a horse too talented for me but he has zero aspirations all Ludo wants is food, water, a field to run about in and the odd cuddle and pat from me. So I believe he is happy as his requirements are filled

I defo would not buy a well bred 4 year old again oh no

But on the other hand I've learnt ALOT, my riding has improved greatly and I think it will keep improving so what was a dark cloud ended up having a sliver lining and I have the pleasure to own the loveliest horse I've ever met something I might never do again

I appreciate all the advice and comments and I will for sure chat to my instructors about improving my position and will try some of the tips I've been given on this thread

I'm home now but man I'm soooo sore lol

 

[MandyMoo]

ouch! healing vibes coming your way!!!!!!!!


as for the insecure jumps...well, from the photos your lower leg doesn't look too stables - I'd try sitting up more and giving with your hands more instead of tipping forwards...try and build up your core muscles and sit up? easier said than done though!