Saying what people don't want to hear or biting your tongue?

Say something people don't want to hear or bite your tongue?

  • Total voters
    0
Wagtail

Wagtail

Horse servant
Joined
2 December 2010
Messages
14,815
Location
Lincs
Visit site
I have often wondered why so many people in the horse world just tell people what they want to hear. Or don't pipe up when they notice something amiss with a person's horse. By 'people', I mean yard owners, vets, physios, farriers, and most of all, trainers. Over the years, so many horses have come to me crippled with saddles that are too tight, lame, sore backs, behavioural problems, owners that are over-horsed, owners that are under-horsed, and so on.

I've always been far too honest and outspoken. People don't want to hear these things. They often don't do anything about them, and they only dislike you for it. The latest one was someone sending me a video of a prospective new horse. The horse was willing and good natured, but looked very unsound behind to me (bow legged and very low dipping fetlocks). I told her so. Her response was, 'well you're the only person who's said anything bad about her. I've spoken to loads of people and they all say go for it.' So she went for it and the horse failed the vetting on numerous points including being lame behind. Another person asked me for advice on selling her dressage horse. I went to see him being worked and he had a lateral walk and generally looked uncomfortable. I tried to be as kind as possible in saying that the horse was stunning and I really liked his character but that he could not possibly be marketed as one to take someone through the levels because I didn't think he would stand up to the amount of collection that would be required. I've not heard from her since. These are just two examples of many. I am starting to realise why people just don't say what they think when it is for the sake of the horse or the person involved. People don't thank you for it. I've decided to bite my tongue from now on unless I see a glaring welfare issue.

So I am just wondering, how do others play things?
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately some people I know who are proud of how 'outspoken' they are, are just plain rude. There is being honest and there is having tact.

I am very much say it how it is, but I don't like to hurt people's feelings. I tend to live by asking myself if a person is hurting anyone- human or animal, with their behaviour or actions. If not, let them be. If they are, then it's time to speak up.

As for people asking for advice and then not taking it (and then it all goes wrong, as suspected), I make a mental note and keep it mind for next time. If it keeps happening, I will and have, told a person that I don't feel there's any point offering my opinion as it is not going to be listened to.
 
As far as horses are concerned I frankly don't see the point of lying (or lying by ommission)/shading/softening/bending. I have always been quite blunt and some people don't like that, but I find that when people really want an honest opinion they do ask. Those that know me know what they'll get :-) I have slowly learned to do as my Grandmother advised: "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all" in some circumstances, and rarely offer opinions unasked these days. More restful for all concerned...
 
Totally get where you're coming from!! I find when people don't care, realise or have to deal with the consequences they throw willy nilly 'just go for it' comments in. At the end of the day we're messing on with 700kg beasties that are incredibly agile on their very solid feet. Really sticks in my gullet when people ask for your opinion only to actual not want anything honest to come out of your mouth...I keep my comments nice and sweet if it's something such as the bright pink headcollar with diamantes hanging off it with flashing lights put on a chestnut stallion..it's not bothering me or the horse so la da da...however if it's something that is compromising the horses welfare then yes I will say something. A lot of people seem to totally miss lameness/soreness unfortunately :( I find vets the worst for it...or steroid injecting everyyyyythinggggg but thats another thread haha :)
 
It depends on the person and the situation. I've told many a close friend things they may not want to hear but always tried to phrase it sympathetically and offered support to change things, both in the horsey world and in other aspects of my life. I don't do it for the sake of it and I only do it where it's an issue that needs addressing (like a horse suffering) there's no point doing it unless it's going to bring about something positive.

I'm on the committee of my riding club and I'm always the one who has to deal with any "diplomatic incidents" so tell people things they don't want to hear (like we won't put them on a team as we don't think they're safe jumping that height or something like that) in that context too.
 
If it's welfare or safety then I tend to speak up.

I'd be feeling a bit 'told you so' if the horse wasn't so sick, but I told one of the livery kids she needed a vet to check a puncture wound on her horse. She preferred the 'purple spray' advice of the other kids and now has a sick horse. Weekend call out, bloods etcetera.
 
I used to be a lot more forthright, I'm a bit more circumspect now. People on the yard started referring people to me as "ask Casey, she knows everything" so I've learned to put up and shut up - obviously if I thought something was urgently wrong I'd speak to or at least text the owner, but for things like, saddle fit (who thinks that a 17in wide fitting saddle that fits a full-up 14.2 brick outhouse of a pony will fit a 13.1 fine built youngster), poor farriery (in one case a young pony is pigeon footed and is getting more so with each shoeing, never mind the fact the day it came off 3 weeks box rest for a cut needing stitches behind the knee the rider was jumping it a metre "because she - the pony - wanted to"), poor fitting rugs (.e. slipping constantly, often strangling the horse) I no longer volunteer my opinion. Some days it gives me a real headache.

Even when I am actively asked my opinion I'm a lot softer with responses. Most of the time I just keep my head down and get on with my jobs and don't hang around to chat anymore.
 
I tend to start off with "Can I make a suggestion?" and the onus is on them then, firstly to accept things could be improved on and also to accept that I might be able to help. Mark Rashid says he never volunteers advice, unless people have asked for it they won't value it but it isn't easy to stand by and watch an unhappy animal
 
xgemmax said:
If someone asks me for my opinion I will tell them, otherwise i will keep quiet unless the horse is suffering
Click to expand...

Yes I agree. If pressed and I have something negative to say I'll always try and look for something positive first. Truthfully as said, people have so many techniques and preferences and if the horse is ok, I've got nothing to say about it. I like to keep my head down generally, as anything you say can and will be used against you, even if it's been retold and twisted over and over again in the retelling...!!
 
Shadowdancing said:
Yes I agree. If pressed and I have something negative to say I'll always try and look for something positive first. Truthfully as said, people have so many techniques and preferences and if the horse is ok, I've got nothing to say about it. I like to keep my head down generally, as anything you say can and will be used against you, even if it's been retold and twisted over and over again in the retelling...!!
Click to expand...

^^^This & well said^^^
 
Wagtail said:
[...]People don't want to hear these things. They often don't do anything about them, and they only dislike you for it. [...]
Click to expand...

Yep. I was asked my opinion (once!) about why a very overhorsed livery on a previous yard kept getting bolted with (a true blind bolt) and chucked off. I voiced that maybe the horse didn't look 100% right behind and the vet might be a good idea. Was ignored and vilified. 12 months later horse is PTS due to unfixable issues behind. Did my opinion help the horse or impact the outcome? No. A waste of time that led to a lot of stress.

Cortez said:
[...] I have slowly learned to do as my Grandmother advised: "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all" in some circumstances, and rarely offer opinions unasked these days. More restful for all concerned... [...]
Click to expand...

Yep ^. I tend to avoid giving my opinion if I'm outright asked to, unless it's positive. You can't help or save them all, sadly :(.
 
The horsey world is horrendously clique ridden. People don't want the truth, they just want people around them that'll agree with them. Telling the truth too often tends to backfire and leave you a bit of a social leper on a yard if your a bit too honest.
 
Cortez said:
I have slowly learned to do as my Grandmother advised: "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all" in some circumstances, and rarely offer opinions unasked these days. More restful for all concerned...
Click to expand...

^^ this

And if people want to know your opinion, they will usually ask eventually :)
 
I tend to stay quiet unless directly asked or the problem is actively hurting a horse. I often think in the horsey world it's not what people say but how they say it. Quite often ( yes I am generalising,) people who are great with horses and not so great with people. Things meant in good spirits come across blunt and rude.

If you haven't got a tough skin or are used to horsey people it can be very upsetting.
 
If I'm teaching then I tell the truth.
If asked for my opinion on something then I will tell the truth but also attempt to demonstrate what the problem is.
If I'm not asked for my opinion then I just keep out of it unless a horse is suffering or owner is very novice.
 
I haven't answered the poll as none of the options are right for me.

I tend not to offer opinions unless asked and then find that tact is a very important tool in getting unpalatable truths across. There is more way than one to offer an unwanted or unpalatable truth and sugar-coating the pill can often have exactly the desired result. Suggestions may also work much better than criticism.

I have lost it big style twice in my life but both of those were related to welfare and, in one case, with someone I knew very well but who was quite a novice rider. She's never forgotten and reminds me of it occasionally but neither has she ever repeated the action I shouted at her about to my knowledge. In the other case it was a stranger so who knows if it had any effect whatsoever.

So yes, I do believe honesty is important but I don't necessarily speak my mind - I try to approach it with tact.
 
Very interesting responses. I am definitely keeping my opinions to myself now unless directly asked. The horse world is a funny one. As a YO I have some very novice people and some very experienced people. Some people want you to 'hold their hand' at all times, and others resent even the barest suggestion or advice given. Very few seem to fall in between. Sometimes it is the most novice who want the least help, and sometimes the most experienced who need the most 'hand holding'. There is no way of telling until a situation arises, say with calling a vet or poulticing a hoof or something like that. I am constantly surprised, but once I know, I know.
 
Mmmm, difficult to fill the poll in accurately TBH as it is sooo dependent on the circumstances.

I think though that you DO get more confident at expressing an opinion and sticking to it, especially if that opinion is counter to those around you, as you get older. Call it being more outrageous or whatever, but I know that when I was my younger self I'd not want to volunteer an opinion even if asked - my parents' motto was "don't look round the parapet", especially if for e.g. in a first job where you were supposed to "make a good impression", so I didn't.

I do now though, think I'm older (and hopefully wiser!!) and am certainly more confident at not just expressing an opinion but also backing it up as well even if challenged.
 
I've given up, some times you just cannot help some people! my friend is currently starving her pony and I feel so guilty when I look at him, he's so depressed but no matter what I say, its wrong! despite the fact that for weeks on end he kept breaking out and getting to grass.

I also told someone that there saddle didn't fit, it was lifting up at the back, during the fitting, I told her and it was readjusted a few week later! then about a month ago it was doing the same thing! this time her instructor was riding so she could see what I meant! but she told me that her physio hasn't identified any pain in his back! but to me that's not okay! surely its about prevention, not cure!

another persons Shetland pony was hobbling around the field last weekend, I asked the owner if it was okay! apparently its okay coz she'd just had her feet trimmed so was a bit footy - I'm not sure that its ever okay to be footy after a trim! oh and she knows she has cushings but she's not going to treat her for it because her friends horse had a bad reaction to prescand and had to be PTS! I panicked yesterday when the pony was having a snooze on the floor! luckily she got up and started grazing as I was walking over to check her!

Luckily one friend has listened to me, after her horse rolled on her and knocked her out! she was convinced she was the devil. I advised that she will be hurting, horses don't behave like that for the fun of it!! kissing spins and a ligament issue in her back leg!! so pleased she listened to me, as the horse was almost on its way back to the previous owner as dangerous.
 
Kezzabell2 said:
I've given up, some times you just cannot help some people! my friend is currently starving her pony and I feel so guilty when I look at him, he's so depressed but no matter what I say, its wrong! despite the fact that for weeks on end he kept breaking out and getting to grass.

I also told someone that there saddle didn't fit, it was lifting up at the back, during the fitting, I told her and it was readjusted a few week later! then about a month ago it was doing the same thing! this time her instructor was riding so she could see what I meant! but she told me that her physio hasn't identified any pain in his back! but to me that's not okay! surely its about prevention, not cure!

another persons Shetland pony was hobbling around the field last weekend, I asked the owner if it was okay! apparently its okay coz she'd just had her feet trimmed so was a bit footy - I'm not sure that its ever okay to be footy after a trim! oh and she knows she has cushings but she's not going to treat her for it because her friends horse had a bad reaction to prescand and had to be PTS! I panicked yesterday when the pony was having a snooze on the floor! luckily she got up and started grazing as I was walking over to check her!

Luckily one friend has listened to me, after her horse rolled on her and knocked her out! she was convinced she was the devil. I advised that she will be hurting, horses don't behave like that for the fun of it!! kissing spins and a ligament issue in her back leg!! so pleased she listened to me, as the horse was almost on its way back to the previous owner as dangerous.
Click to expand...

Why is your friend starving her pony. Is it at risk of laminitis? I completely share your exasperation at people sometimes, especially when it comes to horses. You don't see so many differences of opinion when it comes to dogs.
 
I rarely bother expressing an opinion outloud. We keep our horses at home, so no yard politics here. If I hear someone talking about doing something with their horse in a peculiar way, I might say, "oh that's interesting, I usually ......", which might or might not lead to a discussion about methods of doing things. I have intervened occasionally if I have seen something which directly affects welfare but usually leave folk to find out the hard way. I find that lesson stays with them better than any unsought advice
. It is bad enough when giving feedback when judging, people really don't want to hear that a chair seat isn't helping their horse and longer stirrups would improve things. As soon as I hear " but" in those circumstances, I leave them to it.
There was a notable occasion in a WH class when a judge and 2 stewards all thought a pony was unsound. Rider said he couldn't be, as he had won a class the week before. In the end the vet was asked to express his opinion and rider was asked to take the pony out. The connections were very unimpresserd and said so loudly!

Eta I haven't voted as didn't think any of the choices fitted.
 
Last edited:
when i was younger i was very outspoken and didnt hold back, now i am alot older and wiser i try to be more tactful ..sometimes someone will proudly show you their horse and i may think it has poor conformation or be really ugly but i would never burst their balloon and criticize as it would hurt their feelings, they love it so why should i comment in a negative way, however if they were thinking of buying it and asked my opinion i would be completely honest.....if animal cruelty is involved i have to speak out ...
 
If I am asked for an opinion, I will give an honest one. Otherwise no, TBH having been on the receiving end of well intentioned, but wrong advice, I know how it feels.
 
I think it depends on what you think the reason for butting in would be. I have to confess i bite my tongue in real life, UNLESS asked or invited to add my opinion. I'm not confrontational at all in real life, and the awkwardness would be too much for me. If the same person asked me online, i would let rip haha. However i have gotten better. I was watching a girl at the yard ride recently cause she had asked my opinion on a saddle, and i ended up giving her a lesson cause i could not cope with her riding and i told her everything she was doing that i found unacceptable.
 
I don't like meddlers. I don't like those who think that because they have an opinion they should air it. Opinions are like farts, everyone likes their own brand.

I am to the point, a spade is a spade not a shovel BUT I have manners and common courtesy instilled into me from my parents and I may suggest something to someone but I wouldn't push it or say it on derogatory terms or in a way to belittle someone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top