Scabby knees- wits end!

[Myloubylou]

I have good success with heel to hoof on my mare. If left my mares heels get inflamed & sore to the point of lameness. I rub a finger full on when needed, it loosens off the scabs & acts as a barrier. She has pink skin still but controls the scabs and touch wood is free from infection.

 

[ester]

I'd go for topical steroids and antibiotics - I wonder with skin in that sort of condition whether oral antibs really hit the spot? I'd be surprised if there isn't a staph infection going on there. It might be worth asking the vets to take another culture and do a sensitivity test (which will show which antibiotics to use).

Staphs and streps are both knocking around on all of our skin all of the time but you can usually tell if they are there in excess and causing an infection.

I am a fan of sudocreme with sulphur powder added in it but I think that might be stage 2 with these.

Re. mallenders yes this is a chronic condition of hairy cobs that needs constant management, but I think the OPs horse is having an acute flare up that needs sorting before we can talk management.

 

[saddlesore]

Thanks ester, the vet works with a dermatologist so I'm hoping they will go down the route of looking for further specifics. I will ask about a sensitivity test does fast fibre contain alfalfa do you know?

 

[ester]

No it doesn't.

 

[Annagain]

Thanks ester, the vet works with a dermatologist so I'm hoping they will go down the route of looking for further specifics. I will ask about a sensitivity test does fast fibre contain alfalfa do you know?

If you're going down the feed route eliminate EVERYTHING for 2 weeks (including supplements) and the reintroduce things one at a time, allowing 2 weeks to check for reactions. With my boy's sugar intolerance I suspected alfalfa at first so started with a grass chaff then added a cool mix - it got slightly worse but had a small amount of alfalfa in it so thought it was that and changed to an alfalfa free one (Saracen Re-leve) and it got better (also low sugar). I then added molassed sugar beet and the rash went wild within 24 hours. Switched to Fast Fibre and he's back to normal. He wasn't that keen on the grass chaff so we switched back to Alfa A - this time molasses free - and he's been fine ever since, except when the spring grass came through. It's a long shot but worth a try.

 

[soulfull]

Have pm'd you as for some reason my phone wouldn't post on thread.
DONT panic have had this problem with several horses

 

[saddlesore]

Thanks again everyone vet still thinks it's an irritation due to small amount of mites that he is now hypersensitive too. Another dectomax jag, stopped anti biotics and trying topical steroids again. Feel like I'm getting nowhere.

 

[abbijay]

I am very surprised your vet hasn't at least discussed the potential of mallenders with you although if (S)he is only used to dealing with skinnies the may not have encountered it before. A google search of mallenders and sallenders (the hock equivalent) should provide you with plenty of useful information.
I treat my clydesdale with Coatex dog shampoo although there is a prescription only shampoo that may be more suitable (I wish I could remember the name but is commonly used in mud fever sufferers) given your struggle. It softens the scabs and you can brush them out. As said above it is a case of management, regular shampooing (weekly or fortnightly all year round) works for me to prevent build up and I have never had to touch him with the clippers which far too many vets are far too quick to insist on.
Good luck in resolving it!

 

[saddlesore]

Thanks, does mallanders just start on its own? I've had him for over 2 years but have had this issue for around 6 months now!

 

[ester]

mallenders is really just the old fashioned name for scabby knees though! It doesn't really mean anything as far as diagnosis goes!

 

[saddlesore]

Ah, in which case I'll keep at it with the vet. I've to call him on Monday to discuss progress. Possibility of a biopsy but they are reluctant given the site and the fact the scrapings were inconclusive.

 

[alainax]

If you google Mallenders there are lots of pictures of other horses with similar conditions, so dont panic!

Check his hocks also just now, in case they are starting to get a bit dry, you might be able to catch it before it gets out of hand. (Sallenders)

Your vet should of course know best, however it is useful to read thread a few of the dedicated mallenders advice and discussions. My boy ( chunky with feather) gets it a little. I feel the area every time I groom him, if its scabby I soften the scabs off, then apply camrosa ointment. Area is better by the next day, and that keeps it gone for a few months. As soon as it starts to get a bit dry or scabby again, I repeat

It is very manageable, its just a case of keeping on top of it - and for you to get the horses skin back to a point where you can manage it alone - through help from your vet

 

[Lego]

My cob had similar when his mallenders flared up, to the point where he was looking lame. Can't blame him as skin must have been very sore... When it was that bad I used a steroid cream. I also used mild washes to clean it and soak off scabs every few days: diprobase cream as an emollient wash, savlon spray etc. I found that in a way, the more I fiddled and washed and picked, the worse it got.

Once it was down to the hyperkeratinitis without the broken c areas of skin, I just keep an eye on it and e45 occasionally if I notice any scabs in his feathers. I oil his legs all winter anyway and try to resist washing his legs unless they're disgusting and it's a show day.

Biggest thing, as someone else mentioned, was changing feed. Through assorted trial and error, I found c that he couldn't have alfalfa or soya, and once I cut all that out, the improvement in his knees, coat and hooves was amazing. In his case, the damage is already there, so a chronic condition now, but no broken skin for a couple of years

 

[rara007]

The isaderm is a topical steroid and antibiotic so worrying that didn't touch it Id be pushing for a culture or at least a smear- at this stage im not sure a biopsy will add much other than confirm inflamed skin? (ours has it off no hard feed and a lifetime of top class care- sadly not always the easy answer)

 

[ester]

I didn't realise that was what isaderm was, if that is the case I would definitely push for them culturing more and doing a sensitivity test.

 

[Bojingles]

I have 2 cobs with mallenders and as others have said, it's really an ongoing issue that needs constant management. Yours does look very severe though. I keep on top of it by easing off the scurf and applying sudocrem - it really does soothe it. The root cause however is generally the mites, so you need to get on top of these. In my experience Dectomax doesn't control them for very long and I don't like pumping them full of Ivermectin all the time. In the end my vet and I decided that the sure-fire way to keep on top of the mites is to remove their environment, so clipped the feathers. Then I use Frontline spray as a preventative measure and the mites don't come back. Hope that helps once this flare-up has subsided.

 

[Firefly9410]

OP my cob has legs exactly the same as yours. He is currently on steroid injections for something else and they have made no difference to tgr legs. What helps is Heel to Hoof cream to keep the area moist, loosen the scabs and fight any mud fever type infection. I use Head and Shoulders shampoo if there is wet ooze, the zinc in it seems to help. The scabs are made of flakey skin and ooze that has dried. Towel dry then apply the Heel to Hoof cream to the damp skin. Feeding a dolop of oil in the feed helps too, I use Sunflower oil from the supermarket. Bring in during the day because with no hair that pink skin burns, causing more flakey bloody scabs.

 

[Regandal]

Neem oil and leaf extract has been shown to be effective against most common bacteria. I would wash with neem shampoo & then apply neem oil or cream. Love the stuff!

 

[saddlesore]

Thanks again everyone ive got fast fibre, ordered linseed, nizoral and e45. Frustrated by the vets treatment to date, seems very repetitive and unsuccessful:-(

 

[Cinnamontoast]

My cob has mallenders. Dectomax was fine for when he was stamping. You will never, I hear, find evidence of mites, far too little and fast!

I wonder if your horse's condition has been exacerbated by so many products/treatments? Mine was bad when I was trying various different products but clears up in the summer when it's dry. Keeping him in and getting the skin healed works best. Turmeric has done nothing for it, although a tiny reappearing sarcoid has completely disappeared.

Mine is only fed pony nuts in his treat ball and Valleygrass plus apples/carrots occasionally. Is linseed oil ok to use as opposed to micronised/powdered?

I might give Head and Shoulders a try or nizoral and I have lots of neem oil.

 

[saddlesore]

Sadly I live in the west coast of Scotland and we're still waiting for the summer and for it to dry up ha ha. I had wondered if I was 'trying too hard' but they're such a mess I can't leave him like that :-(

 

[Tegan]

My vet recommended Malacetic Equine shampoo for my cob with similar problems. We now wash his knees and hocks with that once a week and then apply pig oil and sulphur. This seems to be keeping the mites and mallenders at bay and is the best routine I have found over the last 8 years with him. I feel your pain though as have tried everything and now can't clip his legs even with sedation as he remembers them being sore.

I must add that his haven't looked quite as sore as yours so would check with your vet about using the shampoo and definitely wouldn't apply the pig oils and sulphur until the skin has healed.

 

[scrat]

I think your're right you are trying too hard. With so many treatments and ideas it will be impossible to know what works for you. I would first of all use one product to assist with healing. I would use sudocrem as I think this is easy to get and not expensive so you can be consistant. I did recomend MTG earlier and I still think this is a great product and worth the money but it is nearly £30 a bottle and not widely available. Give the sudocrem a chance to work and don't wash or pick anything off unless its obvious its just dead skin stuck in the hair then gently remove (not wash) to keep the area clean. Then tackle feed, strip it back completly. Use a chaff that is just that chopped hay / straw http://justfeeds.co.uk/products/just-chop/ and grass nuts (soaked) http://www.northerncropdriers.co.uk/product/grazeon-pellets. Fast fibre is made with sugar beet pulp so perhaps avoid. In my experience vets struggle a bit with hairy horses legs and tend to over treat a problem that will never go but can be managed.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I am another who has tried every potion known to man. It is a condition that cannot be cured but can be managed.

After throwing a lot of money at it over the past 3 years I am now managing the mare with dectomax jabs earlier in the year and twice daily applications of Johnsons Baby Lotion at £2 a bottle. This year is my best year of keeping it under control and the mare comfortable, in terms of cost and success. She has sores on all four limbs, back of knee and front of hocks.

 

[saddlesore]

I dont feel that I am able to stop washing them. The crust is very hard and painful looking and he seems to find relief in having the crust soaked off with maloseb and having e45 applied. He has become very difficult with his legs but allows me to do this so I genuinely believe it feels better for him. Vet has said to just apply steroid twice a day and not wash but already they are a total, angry looking mess :-(

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Washing is personal to the horse, some it works for some it doesn't. With my horse who gets mud fever I wash if it looks angry, oozy and inflamed but not if it is just "clean" scabs which need softening, if that makes sense. I'll use cream if it's just scabs. Some shampoos contain ingredients which help to calm raw skin, so if you've found washing seems to help I'd stick with it.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My mare has been on a diet for the first 31/2 yrs that she was with us, as she had been fed haylage and cheap coarse mix by previous owners and prior to that had been fed for the hard work that she was genuinely doing. She had ballooned when being fed in light work. I think that this had increased her problems but from the scarring it is obvious that this has been a very long-term problem.
She is now at her perfect weight/condition and is fed on dried grass chaff and good quality grassnuts, with linseed oil and aloe vera for her digestive system. As she gets older if she needs a bit extra, I will add Speedibeet.
If you decide to feed grassnuts, do check carefully, on of our local suppliers only stocks a version with alfalfa (Lucerne) and wheatfeed mixed in.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I dont feel that I am able to stop washing them. The crust is very hard and painful looking and he seems to find relief in having the crust soaked off with maloseb and having e45 applied. He has become very difficult with his legs but allows me to do this so I genuinely believe it feels better for him. Vet has said to just apply steroid twice a day and not wash but already they are a total, angry looking mess :-(

I have found that any virtually cream will soften the scabs without washing. I suffer from eczema myself and know that wetting it makes it worse, so have always tried to avoid doing so. I don't use E45 cream as it contains lanolin and I am allergic to that. Sudocrem should do a good enough softening job.

 

[saddlesore]

Can I ask in what way it makes it worse? It honestly seems to be the onlyy thing that helps :-( alternatively before I knew it was feather mites I had covered the sores in sudocreme, wrapped in clingfilm, bandaged and kept on for 24 hours. This made a huge difference also. However I'm now worried that this could encourage mites to bury deeper?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Are you absolutely certain that he has mites? I don't believe that mine did, even though a vet had given the Dectomax injection just before I bought her.

My eczema gets itchier and develops more scabs if it gets wet. My doctor had advised me to keep it dry and this does seem to break the cycle -I know what I am allergic to and it isn't always possible to avoid the allergen.

The cream *will* soften the scabs, without wetting them.