Scales of Training/Walk & Trot Tests

ooo ............... weezy

i don't read anyone "looking down ones nose" ........

I have no problem with folks enjoy their hobby that what i do, but i feel affilating should be the next stage/level of competetion, from RC/unaffililated level and in doing next level i do think there should a general standard to reached and in BD it's one thing and in BE it's another.......
 
P_G I do not think you are a snob and I do not judge you. If you or anyone else says something I disagree with, then I will say so, it isn't exclusive. Will leave this thread back in your capable hands now, sorry if you think I have been disruptive.
 
I have no idea what scales of training are.... I probably do if i put my brain in gear, but tbh if I want to take my horse to an affiliated dressage comp I will do regardless.

I have been and are memebers of BE BSJA and BD and the most snobby of them all is BD!
The amount of ppl who look down on me and wont even look at you when you are riding around. Where as BE and BSJA I find a fairly friendly bunch.

I shall continue to be a member of BD just to ruffle up a few feathers when I do better than some ppl expect.
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maybe BD should introduce what the BSJA did and have different level of shows so intro level, the next one then advanced

so intro would be W+T, Prelim and novice

Next would be PRellim novice and elimentary

next would be
novice, elementary, medium

then so on and so on ???

and each show centre had to hold a certain amount intro etc per season ??

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That's a nice idea but I don't think it would work: what about small centres that only run comps once a month and only cater for lower levels because that's all they can accomodate (experience, arenas etc.). Also its the more well-filled prelims and novices that directly fund the medium upwards on a show day.
I don't know the ins and outs of how the BSJA's apply this though so maybe if it works for them it could be applied to BD.
 
PG I have met you, and you dont come over as a snob at all.
I think you are a very nice person. Just sometimes on here you come over very different to the person I met.

HAHA Weezy and I disagree on loads of things to the point I want to jump up and down and turn purple, doesnt mean I dislike her - I love her to bits, just sometimes we have a completely different view on things and we have to agree to disagree
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Stacey
I hope I havent misunderstood as this thread is very confusing now, but this is sort of what happens now.

Centres are allowed to run 3 events a month, 2 low shows which are up to Medium and one high show which is up to grand prix. This is why you see so many shows which stop at Medium.

BD has just introduced a minimum levy at Novice and Elem which means that you must pay for 20 entries whether you get them or not. As you can porbably imagine this will hit the smaller venues harder.
 
As I recall there was a thread a while ago discussing whether BE should bring in a pre-intro level, and very similar issues were raised.

It all comes down to the question of what an affiliated competition is for. Is it for developing potentially elite standard competitors? Or is it for anyone who cares to put down their money and have a go? Or is it (should it) be for both? All the governing bodies have this dilemma. They are responsible both for Olympic level sport, and for the grass roots.

I think BD should do MUCH more to encourage quality training. They could run "introduction to dressage" days where everyone could have a go, ride a walk trot or prelim test, get feedback and pointers, have a chance to ask questions of the judges, and speak to trainers who might be able to help them further. This might encourage people to delve deeper into dressage and maybe help them get to the point where they are confident enough to enter an affiliated competition.

When I showjumped in Ireland, there were hardly any unaffiliated shows. Everything was run by the SJAI, but there were classes at all levels. You could jump a small Grade E (0-15) class, which would have been around 90cm/1m, and was for horses with less than 15 points. If you were an amateur, you could do an Amateur class as well, and these were around the same size but with a timed jump off (if I remember rightly). You could jump over properly built showjumps, and it was a good experience for a young horse. But surely the equivalent of this in dressage is a Prelim class? I donooo....
 
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not disruptive at all - just picking on me as usual.

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ARGH, no P_G, my comments were not all about you, they were about the tone of the thread and many of the comments and posts in it - just a general observation, made by me, and just my opinions. If anyone else had have started this thread I would have made exactly the same observations and made an identical post, whether you had commented in it or not.
 
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Yes BD is really snobby - but thats not what the post is about
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No it wasnt to start off with.
However, its basically coming across that way.
 
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Also - I don't think BD is snobby! Honestly, I find most people quite friendly, just rather serious. Perhaps serious comes across as snobby?

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You dont obviously go to Addington enough lol
 
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BD has just introduced a minimum levy at Novice and Elem which means that you must pay for 20 entries whether you get them or not. As you can porbably imagine this will hit the smaller venues harder.

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Gosh - no wonder venues near me run unaff alongside!
 
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Stacey
I hope I havent misunderstood as this thread is very confusing now, but this is sort of what happens now.

Centres are allowed to run 3 events a month, 2 low shows which are up to Medium and one high show which is up to grand prix. This is why you see so many shows which stop at Medium.

BD has just introduced a minimum levy at Novice and Elem which means that you must pay for 20 entries whether you get them or not. As you can porbably imagine this will hit the smaller venues harder.

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oh right maybe my lovley idea wont work then !! ha ha

but you could always have seperate training days for W+T and Prelim as they arnt really BD classes and people dont need to be a member do they ??

then do Novice to Medium ??

Sorry not a big dressage person so wouldnt know !!
 
There's a lot of wildly varying points on here - think in reality it's about three different threads! - but going to add my two pennies worth.

Not all Unaff dressage riders are aiming towards affiliated. I have an older horse who I take out occasionally when I get offered a lift, and yes I normally have fun, but I'm not particularly aiming him towards affiliated - he would hate me for it. I have a stressful and demanding job - competing for me is meant to be having fun at a weekend, not about preparing my horse to be affiliated. He's been there, seen that and got the T shirt, and we just have fun now.
If and when I have more time and buy a younger competition horse, yes I'd be looking at affiliating without a doubt, but that's not to say I want to now.

I've also done walk and trot tests - when I first got him, I'd never competed as an adult and was scared sh*tless. Yes I'll admit it - I'd barely ridden in 10 years and went and got a hot, stressy horse who totally confused me. So the first few times I went out, I had no problem sticking to walk and trot tests to boost my confidence - the horse was previously competing BE.

I don't particularly think there is a place for walk and trot at affiliated - mainly because it's a lot of money to pay for a walk and trot test. But I think if there is a demand for them among members and potential BD members, they should be considered an option. BD is there as organisation to serve ALL its members, not just those competing at Elementary and above.
If people with younger horses/lower confidence etc started at affiliated w&t maybe they would have more support, success and inspiration to move up the levels properly, and learn more about the the scales of training.
 
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Also - I don't think BD is snobby! Honestly, I find most people quite friendly, just rather serious. Perhaps serious comes across as snobby?

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i think you are right - most people are concentrating really hard when warming up for BD, especially the professionals, after all it is there livlihood! I guess this might come across as snobby. But then there is always the 'real' snobby people out too!!
 
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Yes to training days and make them up to at least novice!
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(However, even if they had them I'd probably be too intimidated to go!)

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See, this is where the problem lies - even if there were training days im sure some people would feel the same and also be too intimdated to go.

its like judges - people are always scared to talk to them, but thats what they are there for. The judge i was talking to on the weekend says she loves it when people talk to her afterwards, as it makes her believe they want to learn and to improve. I said to her that most people are too scared to talk to the judges, and she was saying what a shame it was that people were intimidated by them.
 
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Also - I don't think BD is snobby! Honestly, I find most people quite friendly, just rather serious. Perhaps serious comes across as snobby?

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i think you are right - most people are concentrating really hard when warming up for BD, especially the professionals, after all it is there livlihood! I guess this might come across as snobby. But then there is always the 'real' snobby people out too!!

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Thats a bit of a silly statement, there are many professionals who eventing is their livlihood but it doesnt stop them from chatting to us mear mortals!
Lucinda Fredricks and I spent the whole of our warm up in the dressage, sjing and xc chatting randomly! Mary King has stopped me and asked me how I went xc etc.
There are those who are concentrating and working hard warming up their horse, but there are others who are damn right rude!
 
Dear me, whoever would have thought that a basic Walk/Trot test would cause such a furore?

I won't pretend that I have read all responses thoroughly, and will also try to refrain from commenting on the tone of some of them and, instead, stick to facts.

The Introductory test was introduced after consulation with Riding Clubs to give a standard format for a Walk/Trot test. There are a lot of different versions around, some good and others not so good. This was an opportunity to produce a standard test with input from a range of experienced people.

Eligibility will be as for Prelims, except the horse may not have any points. So a rider does not have to be a member or register their horse to compete.

It is entirely up to the show centres whether or not they run the test. Remember "BD" does not run the shows, the venues do and they will put on whatever is profitable for them. There is no Championship associated with the Introductory tests, so it is there soley as an easy introduction to competing, using a properly thought out test and judged by a listed judge.

As for the fear that this will remove higher level opportunities from week-end competitors - again that is down to the shows. If you want more Medium + tests at week-ends, then talk to the venue organisers. It is in their hand to resolve the issue, not BD's.

micky, your post isn't quite accurate. A venue may indeed run 2 shows per month - but that is for qualifiers and at any level. However, if they wish to run a third, that must be at the higher levels. Music classes are not included, so they can be put on as an additional show.

Regarding the minimum levy - it is ten starters per Nov & Elem class, not 20, (the levy is £2 per starter) and including both Open and Restricted sections. So 10 competitors who actually trot down the centre line is a reasonable number to expect to provide decent compeition.

Both those requirements are an attempt to deal with the proliferation of shows running tiny classes. These cause problems for judges who are either booked then cancelled at the last minute, or are asked to judge several classes on one day. Competitors are affected as it can lead to last minute cancellation of shows, or being judged by the same person for multiple classes. Fine if the judge "likes" your horse, not so good if they don't.

As for the sentiment that "BD should be doing more to address training" - how many of you have taken advantage of Regional training opportunities in your area? How many of you even know that it exists? If you do know about it and it isn't serving your needs, do you talk to your Regional Training Rep or RDO to ask for different opportunites?

BD - as in the central organisation - does a great deal to try and promote training. However, if riders are asked, "why did you join", 9 times out of 10 the answer is "to compete".
 
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Yes to training days and make them up to at least novice!
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(However, even if they had them I'd probably be too intimidated to go!)

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why not i think it would be great - proper judges in a none pressurised environment ??

where abouts in the country are you - in a few weeks im convinced my friend to take her horse for the first time to a w+T at oldencraig - the horse bunny hops and bucks could be entertaining !!
 
Apologies for my error, I think I added the qualifier and non-qualifier 10 and came up with 20 for the level, but sorry to be misleading.

I do agree with much that you say and have taken advantage myself of regional training and riders forums etc but I am not sure that much of this is widely known, perhaps the new regional areas on the website will help to publicise these events further.
 
Bearing in mind that our retired show cob is now dressaging with a disabled rider, I wonder whether doing affiliated walk/trot tests will allow him to compete on a level playing field with non disabled riders at an affiliated level. Although he is perfectly happy to compete Bob in all paces, he does walk/trot tests when he does the para dressage stuff. They must be reasonably competent together as they have won several classes (and I think may be national restricted champions?)

I am probably totally wrong, but it seemed a good way to integrate both sets of affiliated dressage peeps into one competition.
 
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Also - I don't think BD is snobby! Honestly, I find most people quite friendly, just rather serious. Perhaps serious comes across as snobby?

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i think you are right - most people are concentrating really hard when warming up for BD, especially the professionals, after all it is there livlihood! I guess this might come across as snobby. But then there is always the 'real' snobby people out too!!

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People are serious when they warm up for BE! and BSJA! Especially when they are about to ride round a XC course which has SOLID fences!!
 
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But then there is always the 'real' snobby people out too!!

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i don't compete affiliated, so can't speak for that level. However, at the little RC level unaff things that I do, the worst and most snobbish people seem to be concentrated at Prelim and Novice. Now, that could be purely a numbers game - these are low-level shows, so obviously, most of the people there are Prelim & Novice anyway. But the real snotty snobs tend not to be very good riders and find it hard to control their big flashy horses.

The people competing at Elem and the odd Med (PYO is popular round here, so there is often a good mix of these riders) tend to be so much nicer and friendlier. Obviously, people are concentrating very hard in the warm-ups, but they are almost always happy to chat afterwards, in my (admittedly limited) experience.
 
I cannot believe that there is such a them and us attitude. Last year I would have done W&T tests as my horse could not canter. He is not a warmblood who was born cantering a 5m circle but he has an amazing walk & trot and what is the point of stressing us both out doing something that we were incapable of doing properly? I would not dream of going eventing on a horse that could not canter properly as it is much more dangerous but dressage is just poncing around on your horse looking pretty and showing everyone else how pretty your horse can look when it goes correctly.
I find a lot of these comments absurd and frankly who paid for the arena hire for the Olympic starspotters and who paid for the judges to be there assessing which horse might make up International squads in the future? Its those very numptys you are moaning about doing prelim.
 
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