Scales of Training/Walk & Trot Tests

i think the original point of thread was would you pay to affililate to do W&T test?

and would affilitate NOT having an understanding of Scales of Training within BD.

But i found thia brilliant thread for folks views such a cross section of views and sometimes going off thread, but in no way have I read a 'them and us attitude' BUT that's what i've liked - A discussion
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If someone wants to pay their money, affiliate and compete, then it is THEIR choice to do so - we live in a free country! Maybe they have a new horse, are getting over an injury, horse is coming back into work - WHATEVER, but they have as much right to be at a comp that you, me, Carl, Anky or Spencer does!

TBH I have found this thread to have ever such an air of "looking down ones nose" at others who are game enough to give it a go, even if the scales of training are not their be all and end all - their dressage is probably a hobby and good for them for getting out and giving it a go!
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In a thread in the lounge about a rider wanting to throttle the YOs dog for jumping into the arena, the gen consensus was that our horses must be as desensitised as possible - whilst I know we cannot always have eyes in the back of our heads, horses are unpredictible and there will always be collecting ring idiots but that is the chance we take when we go into a collecting ring.

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*prepares to be burnt at the stake*

I couldn't agree with this more. I think the whole things smarts of snobbery and its such a shame. Why shouldn't people give it ago?

So there are prats who ride around with no clue about how to get their horse working correctly, who cares? We never know the full story of the horses and thier riders so should not be in a position to judge how they go.

I KNOW i get looked down on, on my "crappy" andalusian who gets to a comp and goes around like her is going to explode. He aint gonna get any better without experience.
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Yes exactly - at least dressage is safer than eventing tho
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Thing is im all for encouraging riders, but then why not focus on more unaffliated events.

I also think the introduction of tests before riders can affliate is a good idea - it will stop people who really have no idea from competing at affliated level. If Germany can do that, why cant we?

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i can see your point on how it will lower the standard... however, just a reflection on my own personal view.... they are probably doing it as so many unaffiliated comps are badly run, at bad yards, with bad facilities.
Some are stepping up and many of my local unaff centres hold winter series, champs etc ... but most unaff comps are not as good or held at the best places compared to aff ones as they have standards to meet.
 
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TBH I was quite looking forward to doing some BD with my next horse, but the attitudes in this thread has totally put me off ever affiliating!

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Weezy - don't let the comments on this thread put you off from trying affiliated dressage. Just get out there and have a go. Stuff what others think. There are many judges who give up their time to sit in cold draughty indoor schools and outdoor schools for our pleasure. I've competed at unaff for a few years and have groomed for a friend who competes at medium level aff so I've seen a varying standard of judging from listed and unlisted judges. At the end of the day whether we compete aff or unaff if it wasn't for the organisers and judges then non us would be able to compete.
 
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No, but you think im a snob, and you also think i look down on people - youve said it to me in many different posts. I also always get the impression that whatever i say you will be the one who disagrees with me. You dont even know me, so it gives you no right to judge me.

I don't recall anyone stating you were a snob PG. However, you started this thread by judging other riders standard of riding albeit aff, scales of training whatever. We're just expressing our own views.

I agree with a lot of what you've said and a lot I don't but would not mount a personal attack. That isn't necessary by anyone.
 
i think this covers it......


Don't know what you mean about the scales of training, aren't they RSCISC ?

Rollkeur
Stiff jaw
Contact
Irritation
Screwed up
Covered and in foal
 
haven't trawled through all the posts but here's my thoughts on this.
There must be a need for this otherwise BD wouldn't be introducing it? Can't see why this will reduce the standard at affiliated though. If people want to affiliate and do W&T tests then so what let them! For me it would be good as our walk and trot is pretty much ok now but canter is still very much work in progress and if I was to affiliate and do the W&T tests then it would give me a good idea on what to expect when our canter is sorted out and if we wanted to do prelim or higher (highly unlikely but you never know!)
I really really can't see why you have to be a set standard before competing affiliated, and for that matter unaffiliated too! Surely its the taking part that counts, and the drive to succeed and improve. If your not judged and don't have lessons then how do you know where you are going wrong or right?
Oh and as for the scales of training, quite frankly I had no idea what they were at all and I'm not afraid to admit it. However I was taught by a good instructor when learning to ride years ago and also then by a fellow of the BHS who taught me that it is all about riding the horse from behind into the hand. the impulsion is the hindquarters and to contain it in the hand and believe me when you achieve it there is nothing like it
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So shoot me down for not knowing what the scales of training are but I don't care and to be honest having read some of the posts on here it is quite disheartening as it does come across as well you're not good enough so you can't compete. That in itself creates elitism and surely is not good for any horse sport when surely we should be encouraging people to take part. After all if they do and get helpful comments then they will know what to work on and have something to compare to when seeing how they've improved.
Phew sorry for long post.
 
I'm not just aiming this directly at you Pidge (and I don't mean it to come across as snotty) but everyone who has said that they'd do the walk and trot tests because the canter isn't up to scratch what would be the problem in going in a prelim but before the test having a quiet word with the judge explaining the situation and then either complete the canter in trot or give it a go knowing it probably won't go well? I'm sure the judge would understand and this way you'd still get some pointers and an indication of what your mark would be when the canter was there. If you'd feel bad about getting a low mark then why not ride HC - because as we all know its not about the prizes
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Relaxation
Rhythm
Contact
Impulsion
Straightness
Collection

*polishes halo*
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Rhythm
Suppleness
Contact
Implusion
Straightness
Collection
 
In all honesty what is the point if going HC, you pay the same entry fee so you may as well be in with a chance than restrict yourself HC!

I started competing my TB gelding when he had been off the racetrack 10 weeks and we couldn't canter on the left leg.... this went on for 11 months.... but I still kept going (albeit at unaffiliated level) and even qualified for Trailblazers (on a horse that couldn't canter on the left lead!) We affiliated a year later..... We used Unaff as a starting point before moving up to Affiliated... and even now he is still doing prelim level tests...... If we had Walk/trot tests at the start it would have been better!

However I do agree with some of the points made about the understanding of the scales of training and the apparent bad riding that is so often seen at Prelim and Novice level! I think Walk and Trot tests are a good idea!
 
understand entirely and I have done unaffiliated prelim and even a couple of novice but having issues as I wanted to have a go rightly or wrongly.
But if their canter isn't up to scratch then what is so wrong with having a walk and trot test? Let's encourage people to compete and therefore strive to improve rather than beat them down and tell them they are not good enough.
Just aside our local RC has introduced small SJ classes and having had a go at these and get more confident I have progressed to having a go at the bigger classes. Surely introducing the W&T tests will do the same? We're so keen at times to not be seen as elitist and snobby by the mere fact of having horses that quite frankly some of the attitudes just confirm this. not aimed at anyone in particular just the general theme of some of the posts.
most of us work damn hard and sacrifice things to afford horses and to compete, lets encourage this rather than squash it.
 
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In all honesty what is the point if going HC, you pay the same entry fee so you may as well be in with a chance than restrict yourself HC!

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In this case, as I said, if you thought you might be embarrassed by your score (they don't display HC scores). Another case might be that you didn't want to accrue points (above prelim) or if you wanted more comp experience without blocking qualifiers.
 
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i think this covers it......


Don't know what you mean about the scales of training, aren't they RSCISC ?

Rollkeur
Stiff jaw
Contact
Irritation
Screwed up
Covered and in foal

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i take that very personally, this thread was not about personal attacks on me or my horse - Bloss is in foal as i wanted her to have an easier life - not because i screwed her up
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My worry is that the classes will be abused by those who are technically eligible to enter but who are very capable of competing higher - I know this happens at all levels but surely a walk-trot class should not be abused in this way as it will push out those who the class is aimed at and the feelings of inadequacy will remain. I feel the same about the "absolute beginners" classes at shows, which are terribly abused because how do you define who's eligible? Its all very well expecting people to enter into the spirit of the class but when prizes are on offer this inevitably goes out of the window!
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My worry is that the classes will be abused by those who are technically eligible to enter but who are very capable of competing higher - I know this happens at all levels but surely a walk-trot class should not be abused in this way as it will push out those who the class is aimed at and the feelings of inadequacy will remain. I feel the same about the "absolute beginners" classes at shows, which are terribly abused because how do you define who's eligible? Its all very well expecting people to enter into the spirit of the class but when prizes are on offer this inevitably goes out of the window!

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The walk-trot tests that I've seen at PC/RC level haven't been abused at all, so I don't see it being any different at Affil. I doubt many affil competiitions will use this test, but at least it introduces a standard for unaffiliated 'have a go' introductory competitions.
They're generally by kids just off the lead-rein and for horses with lots of issues in canter, very nervous riders, or those just starting out.
My horse couldn't canter on the right lead for 6 years, and if a local venue had run a walk-trot test I'd have been there, despite her being more than capable of working at novice level in her walk and trot, and me being fairly competent.
As it was, I didn't compete her until we'd cracked the canter work, which meant she was lacking in ring experience when we did get out.
 
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Gosh P_G - I didn't make the connection when I first read that! I do hope it wasn't a personal attack
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Unfortunately it will be, said forum member has made personal attacks on me before.
 
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Gosh P_G - I didn't make the connection when I first read that! I do hope it wasn't a personal attack
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Unfortunately it will be, said forum member has made personal attacks on me before.

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thats horrible ive put my mare in foal as i wanted a baby out of her before she was to old and also she is getting on and needs an easy life !!

P_G dont listen to them or rise to the bate its not worth it !! x
 
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Gosh P_G - I didn't make the connection when I first read that! I do hope it wasn't a personal attack
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Unfortunately it will be, said forum member has made personal attacks on me before.

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P_G, Bloss's competition record speaks for itself! Many other people have agreed with what you have said in this post.
From this thread you can pick out the serious competitors from the have-a-goers!
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From this thread you can pick out the serious competitors from the have-a-goers!
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That is a bit absurd - many of those who have disagreed are very serious competitors.
 
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i think this covers it......


Don't know what you mean about the scales of training, aren't they RSCISC ?

Rollkeur
Stiff jaw
Contact
Irritation
Screwed up
Covered and in foal

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PMSL
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No I don't think it was a personal attack either.
 
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i think this covers it......


Don't know what you mean about the scales of training, aren't they RSCISC ?

Rollkeur
Stiff jaw
Contact
Irritation
Screwed up
Covered and in foal

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PMSL
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Glad someone else thought it was a joke as well - can't see that it's a personal dig? If it was, are they also meant to be accusing P_G of the other misdemeanours?
Maybe I'm wrong, just thought it was meant to be amusing.....
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The average German Housewife/riding school pupil, will most likely have a good trained seat, probs at about the level of a person in the UK riding elementary..... which does highlight a difference as dressage basic are taught better over there. But in my experience - that's about it.
Your average German housewife would wet her pants at being asked to ride outside an arena or on a horse which spooked and your average German RC competitor comfortably riding half pass could no more gallop a horse across a field than fly - I know which system I prefer.
 
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I think the walk/trot test has its place to be honest, I see the genuine rider, whether it be on an established rider on a young horse or a rider starting out with good intentions being the ones who will benefit from them, they will want to know if they are working on the right lines with their horse before they progress up to the next level, I don't think it's about whether they can canter or not really.

You will ALWAYS get some people at shows, those who think they know what they're doing and don't actually want to learn, but who is to say their horses are that bothered about going round like a teapot (I'm talking just lack of knowledge here not rough riding which should be not be tollorated by venues) and those who may be a bit longer in the tooth, (both rider and horse!) who aren't as supple as they would like to be but are having a great day out. We should as 'established riders' & young and fit enough to be supple with horses to suit actually be encouraging our fellow competitors to enjoy themselves and perhaps change the attitudes of the 'won't learn I know it all' club.

I take my dressage seriously but nothing gives me more pleasure than seeing a retired rider with their best friend (said horse) enjoying their cup of tea and carrot at the end of a test even knowing they've come last!

Regarding the scales of training as I've gone slightly off topic - P-G you have a valid point and I think judges should make more reference to it in their comments, this would encourage riders to go away and look them up and then learn about them and build them into their training programmes. However in saying that not everyone takes it as seriously as others so tests will always be filled with a mix of 'I'm here to enjoy my day out', and the ' I want to qualify' competitors, we have to accept that without the 'I'm here to enjoy myself' competitiors the venues probable wouldn't be able to run as many shows so we do need their support. As you're finding when you move up the levels it is hard to find the competitions, this is because the demand isn't there in the same volume therefore I don't see the walk/trot test having an even worse impact on that.
 
"I take my dressage seriously but nothing gives me more pleasure than seeing a retired rider with their best friend (said horse) enjoying their cup of tea and carrot at the end of a test even knowing they've come last!"

You must come up and say hello next time you see me at an event........
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i think this covers it......


Don't know what you mean about the scales of training, aren't they RSCISC ?

Rollkeur
Stiff jaw
Contact
Irritation
Screwed up
Covered and in foal

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Oh she is on form today! LOL
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What I find slightly disturbing is this idea that these 'scales of training' appear to be the only recognised means to the end.

To me this is the same as saying that only being taught to ride the BHS way is correct which we all know is simply not the case.

Personally I prefer not to be directed in my riding by one doctrine. Then again this could be why i gave up competitive dressage many years ago having witnessed far too much unacceptable behaviour.
 
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