Scottish sports horse finals

Trust you, odd1, lol!

The SSH wanted to see how the horse classes went in the first year - we have had enquiries re ponies and it may be something that is included for 2011.
 
totally agree by starting out with just horses for the first year even first couple of years, you can build on it that way
 
Well it sounds a good showing series, i will be aiming to bring my foal next year as a yearling as i felt at 4 weeks it was too far to bring him as we are 3 hours from ingliston. Roll on next year.
 
Be good to see you there!

It was great to see that the Overall Champion of the Series, as judged by Lynne Crowden and Tweetie Nimmo, was also the foal with the highest mark at the recent SSH Youngstock Gradings - the Dutch Graders, Suzanne Bredero and Yvonne Peeters from the NRPS, awarded this chap 81% - with such consistent form at this very young age, it's no wonder his owners are over the moon!
 
Yes he certainly is a stunning wee chap and one to be proud of.
However I am new to SSH showing too and must say I was a bit confused regarding the judging.
This wee guy was placed third in the mornng with his Mum second and so she qualified, then later he accompanied his Mum into the ring as she had qualified and there he took first?
I thought it was only first and seconds who would be judged?
Also confused because the same judge who thought him only good enough to be third in a class of 3 folas, then placed him first when against the same foals later?
Can someone enlighten me as to how this is, are the judges looking for something different second time around?
Also wasnt impressed when the owners of this foal told the judge that he wasnt actually eligible and she said as quoted by owners..."the judges decision is final and oh well I could just give it to the mare then"!!!
 
Last edited:
Dusty said:
Yes he certainly is a stunning wee chap and one to be proud of.
However I am new to SSH showing too and must say I was a bit confused regarding the judging.
This wee guy was placed third in the mornng with his Mum second and so she qualified, then later he accompanied his Mum into the ring as she had qualified and there he took first?
I thought it was only first and seconds who would be judged?
Also confused because the same judge who thought him only good enough to be third in a class of 3 folas, then placed him first when against the same foals later?
Can someone enlighten me as to how this is, are the judges looking for something different second time around?
Also wasnt impressed when the owners of this foal told the judge that he wasnt actually eligible and she said as quoted by owners..."the judges decision is final and oh well I could just give it to the mare then"!!!
Click to expand...

I think you might be a wee bit confused there... the foal won his Qualifier class in the morning and as you rightly say, 1st and 2nd places went through to the evening(at some shows where a 1st or 2nd placed horse had already qualified, the qualification passed down the line ;) )

The mare, his dam, was placed third in the morning Broodmare Class and so did not qualify - in the evening, she did not enter the ring for the Broodmare Championship Class - she entered the ring for the second class in the evening with her foal for the Foal Championship Class.

There was another chestnut mare with foal at foot in the Championship Broodmare Class - perhaps you may be confusing the two?

The judge who judged the morning SSH Qualifiers was not in the ring for the Evening Championships - 2 completely different judges for the evening Championship Classes - I think you may be confused somewhat again.

Had you been to Palominos in between classes by any chance? :)
 
Last edited:
There were 3 mares and foals forward in the mare class in the morning, the black mare won and the chestnut mare was second, the chestnut mare who was second - her foal was third, the small bay colt foal who's dam was third in the class won foal class. The sports horse championship, was run without the first placed foal, I dont know what happened to him, but he wasnt forward, so the judge pulled out the third place foal as champion(we think she thought it was the foal she had placed in the morning) this issue was raised with ssh , whereas we will confirm we too were told the same as above
"
Also wasnt impressed when the owners of this foal told the judge that he wasnt actually eligible and she said as quoted by owners..."the judges decision is final and oh well I could just give it to the mare then"!!!
"

Wonder who did win the ssh championship then? and who took reserve, was that based on the judges decision or score sheets!!

Anyhow, the first placed colt foal went on to win the ssh supreme ch, where a question or rather a debate ensued on the scottish showing forum about if hernias were hereditory or not!
what happened to the ssh, well I hope the bay got his championship as the foal who won had only won a third in his class and his dam although was eligible , she was second place to the black mare , her foal was second on a 78% and the mare (black) got 92% - has anyone else looked at the score sheets from the ssh ingliston grand slam? I got shown these today.
 
tweedette said:
There were 3 mares and foals forward in the mare class in the morning, the black mare won and the chestnut mare was second, the chestnut mare who was second - her foal was third, the small bay colt foal who's dam was third in the class won foal class. The sports horse championship, was run without the first placed foal, I dont know what happened to him, but he wasnt forward, so the judge pulled out the third place foal as champion(we think she thought it was the foal she had placed in the morning) this issue was raised with ssh , whereas we will confirm we too were told the same as above
"
Also wasnt impressed when the owners of this foal told the judge that he wasnt actually eligible and she said as quoted by owners..."the judges decision is final and oh well I could just give it to the mare then"!!!
"

Wonder who did win the ssh championship then? and who took reserve, was that based on the judges decision or score sheets!!

Anyhow, the first placed colt foal went on to win the ssh supreme ch, where a question or rather a debate ensued on the scottish showing forum about if hernias were hereditory or not!
what happened to the ssh, well I hope the bay got his championship as the foal who won had only won a third in his class and his dam although was eligible , she was second place to the black mare , her foal was second on a 78% and the mare (black) got 92% - has anyone else looked at the score sheets from the ssh ingliston grand slam? I got shown these today.
Click to expand...

Dearie me - instead of getting your facts wrong on a public forum, why not put your queries in writing to the SSH first and give the organisation a chance to respond? I might expect that sort of behaviour on the SSF, but not on H&H.

In any event, I will attempt to enlighten you.

The foal who won the morning foal class had ALREADY QUALIFIED for the Evening Foal Championship Class before it arrived at Ingliston on the day - therefore, as I outlined in a previous post on this thread, the qualification passed down the line - this entitled the third placed foal from the morning qualifier to be eligible for the Evening Championship Class.

In a Championship Class, the first placed animals from the earlier classes do not neccessarily always carry the Championship over those placed below them - the scores from the individual morning classes would, to a certain extent, be irrelevant - the Championship is judged anew - were it just a matter of giving the Championship to the highest scoring animal from the morning, there would be no need to bring the animals forward for the Championship class at all!

I do not intend to continue debating with you on a public forum when you have not had the decency to formally write to the SSH in the first instance - suffice to say that the attitude and behaviour of a very small minority of the entrants in the SSH classes at Ingliston left much to be desired - the SSH would not be sorry if those particular entrants did not support the classes in 2011.
 
Last edited:
it is very sad that there is a small minority causing these problems. I have to say the championship was run very well and from someone who's youngster did not do that well due to a growing spurt i was very pleased with the way it was run. only thing i would have liked is some communication from the judge as she never spoke to us.

so a big well done to Scottish Sports Horse
 
I agree tikino. This was meant to be a very selfish post!!!! :-D people are becoming very sensitive, for most we have our horses for pleasure. You can keep some of the people happy some of the time but never all the people happy all of the time.
Let's be supportive and help this evolve
 
I cant see why the ssh is so against teething troubles and errors being brought to light? also if the judging is like I saw yesterday on one of the sheeets, where no mention was made of horses potential ie discipline and the same sheet used for youngstock as for mature horses . The whole numbers judging is a waste of time for anyone waiting all day, which some people did, for the Grand slam final - as their scores/results were already cast in stone so to speak . Would anyone really want to attend this apart from the class winners ?

the whole place debated the hernia situation with the winning foal - no disrespect to him or his owners as he was a lovely foal, but it raised issues - or at least should have with serious breeders , what potential for the future, or are people supposed to sit back and take what the ssh say as cast in stone?

I apologise in advance and wait for the flack
 
tweedette said:
I cant see why the ssh is so against teething troubles and errors being brought to light? also if the judging is like I saw yesterday on one of the sheeets, where no mention was made of horses potential ie discipline and the same sheet used for youngstock as for mature horses . The whole numbers judging is a waste of time for anyone waiting all day, which some people did, for the Grand slam final - as their scores/results were already cast in stone so to speak . Would anyone really want to attend this apart from the class winners ?

the whole place debated the hernia situation with the winning foal - no disrespect to him or his owners as he was a lovely foal, but it raised issues - or at least should have with serious breeders , what potential for the future, or are people supposed to sit back and take what the ssh say as cast in stone?

I apologise in advance and wait for the flack
Click to expand...


"I do not intend to continue debating with you on a public forum".
 
Many thanks tikino and liannesxs - the feedback over the whole Series has been overwhelmingly positive and the SSH is much encouraged.

The SSH have invited constructive feedback to be emailed to the Event Organiser - this will be duly considered and hopefully implemented in 2011 where appropriate.

Thanks once again to those who have supported this Series with good grace throughout - we hope to see you back in 2011!
 
tweedette said:
Is good grace - not questioning ?
Click to expand...

LOL, I think you are on a losing battle on this one. HHO forums only seem to be used by Flyingbuck for publicity only. Just look at the SSH stallion grading thread as well, and what you are saying should come as no surprise.

this will be duly considered
Click to expand...

In other words you can send in anything you wish, but do not be too hopeful of them actually listening to you. LOL

Actually "good grace" is them actually answering your questions, and not trying to belittle you. Good luck on getting a response, from what I hear the SSH are very good at doing these kind of things.
 
i would like to say well done to the SSH for making the effort to encourage breeders etc to bring out there youngstock and exhibit them at what could be become,if allowed,a great future showing series.

I can understand why there might be some confusion as to the 3rd placed foal going forward to the final but if qualification passes down the line then that is how,I'm sure it did say this on the schedule.For the same foal to then go on and take the championship should perhaps not have been so unexpected as if he was shown under a different judge(who's opinions can vary widely) and the foal was the one who performed best on the night then the win was deserved.In my mind championships should be judged on a blank canvas and not be expected for scores to carry over from previous classes.

I have seen quite a few articles with judges explaining why the favourite didn't take the championships and mostly it is just because they didn't shine when others did,its unfortunate but that is showing.

The fact that the championships are run in the evening is stated,and having shown there before know that the long day waitng doesn't always suit all animals but will suit others and this can also be why the placings were reversed in the championship.

I look forward to taking part in this series in the future,long may it continue.
 
I watched the third placed foal take the championship , under the same judge , it made a mockery of the whole thing, then to put up a 4 wk old colt foal with a hernia above everything everyone had qualified for during the season , made it ridiculous , and even more so , ssh wont explain themselves, but will take things into consideration (I hear, but I aint gonna do anything about it).

So, Is the very best of what scotland had to offer throughout the whole of the showing season of 2010 scottish sports horses exhibited , best represented by a 4 wk old colt foal with a hernia, and i'm sorry if this hurts anyone, but its a question I feel, living in Scotlandand have an interest in sports horse breeding - needs answering?
 
tweedette said:
So, Is the very best of what scotland had to offer throughout the whole of the showing season of 2010 scottish sports horses exhibited , best represented by a 4 wk old colt foal with a hernia, and i'm sorry if this hurts anyone, but its a question I feel, living in Scotlandand have an interest in sports horse breeding - needs answering?
Click to expand...

It does sound bizarre at the very least. :confused:
 
I don't think it makes a mockery of the whole thing,why should it.

According to previous posts the foal qualified by right because the other 2 already had. If he then went on to perform and show himself of in the best light then why not deserve to win,this is how showing works after all.

Why does the hernia pose such a problem,surely at the time it was more unsightly than anything else and wouldn't stop the foal showing of his talents as a potential sport horse. Of the 3 foals i have bred out of the same mare only one of them had a hernia as a foal,it needed no treatment,cleared up in its own time and has never caused him any problems,he is now a happy 6yr old.

Maybe SSH cannot answer your questions because they didn't actually judge the classes themselves and can only give you feedback from the actual results at the end of the day.

Perhaps for fully detailed answers then the best peolpe to contact for them are the judges themselves as they would have been the ones that actually picked the winners.
 
Then if the three foals had qualified and its which one went 'best on the night' for judging, why was only the first placed foal - let loose in the arena ??? while the other two stayed in the collecting ring and werent allowed to show their foals off, for a second opinion so to speak - going best on the nights fine on a level playing field , is this level

My concern for hernias in a colt, is colts sometimes make stallions, they are bred to be an improvement hence the ssh ? Hernias in a colt worry me? no matter what age , so do we overlook things like hernais which may pass on , or is the ssh a stacked deck ?????
 
i think the problem with the hernia debate is it MAY be hereditary. Whilst it could also be due to known or unknown trauma at birth, it can also be more more commonly because the muscles around the navel failed to close. i've had a couple, one was operated and the other healed on its own. mare has had 4 foals so has a 50% hit rate although used 3 different stallions.
even as a hereditary defect, saying they believed 100% it was hereditary, may still have been a better foal overall than another with say long pasterns or poor hocks (as an example) - i didnt see the foal class although did see a couple of them in the collecting ring, i could not comment on their faults or attributes. conformational faults you can attempt to improve on but its not a guarantee it would happen.
judging is objective and we all look for different things. i for example am paranoid about hind limb conformation.
i didnt get enough of a chance to see the rest of the candidates in the overall championship. what would you have had instead? personally id have given it to the yearling as she is super dooper fabby great haha
 
if as you say that only the one foal was allowed to go loose then i would say no this is not a level playing field and all should have been judged as either in-hand or loose.Perhaps the SSH should look into this fact for next time and make sure everyone is judged the same.

On the other hand i don't think its fair to lay blame at the door of the SSH because the foal with the hernia has been judged (not by SSH) to be good enought to be pulled in.

You say yourself that hernias MAY be hereditary,other opinions are that it could be down to trauma (the umblical cord being ruptured to quicky after birth) and perhaps the judge didn't see the hernia as a future problem so chose to ignore it.
 
for crying out loud let it drop, this was a great series and i really enjoyed taking my youngster out to the qualifer shows and also the final
why do people have to come onto a forum and slate something that has just started, do you not want something like this to run in scotland - i do, its high time we had something like this to support its a good way to get the young horses out there for some education.
the judges at night (championship final class) were very very experienced one also a BEF grader i think they know what they are looking for

thank you once again to all the SSH committee for their hard work in getting this off the ground, looking forward to next year
 
Okay thanks Tweedette for explaining it better than me!
I am not slating it and nor do I see anyone else slating....I see people asking questions and wondering how these classes are judged.
I am all for something like this in Scotland and I dont recall stating anything different.
However I would like to see it done properly and fairly.
Not blaming SSH just asking questions and pointing out things that puzzled me.
Would SSH rather just take our money and not bother listening to our comments, questions and critisism?
 
Dusty said:
Would SSH rather just take our money and not bother listening to our comments, questions and critisism?
Click to expand...

as far as i know the only money SSH got from the series was the extra membership fees that people that wern't members (or had horses overstamped with them). i helped run one of the shows with the qualifiers and SSH provided the prize money & rosettes & sashes for the qualifiers we held and didnt get any of the entry fees;) so i cant see how SSH have made any money out of the series - even for the final the entry fees were paid to Ingliston EC not SSH

it is a new competition like any new competitions there will be the odd problem/query but thats why SSH are asking to contact THEM not put it on an open forum - i have sent off my views on an email to them, why cant others do the same:confused:
 
Last edited:
I think if the ssh is advertised and promoted as such , then its open to debate and discussion. the ssh should represent the very best of scotland, and should have a huge backing , it should embrace advancement and progress and not keep us like mushrooms, lets see them work for the future , on an open playing field and put the stacked deck to one side , its not about self promotion or backpatting its about breeding for the future.
 
Flyingbuck said:
Another satisfied customer, lol - thank you, odd1! ;)
Click to expand...

Maybe the SSH should send out a feedback questionnaire to all the entrants (including qualifiers) and get their honest opinions directly. This would be the more "forward thinking" approach, and included in this would be the direct feedback to the “end users” from those questionnaires, not just discussion behind closed doors where people will please themselves anyway.

it is a new competition like any new competitions there will be the odd problem/query but thats why SSH are asking to contact THEM not put it on an open forum - i have sent off my views on an email to them, why cant others do the same
Click to expand...

As said on another thread. If Flyingbuck, as Chairperson of the SSH is going to post any links on public forums (in order to get free publicity) then the SSH are putting themselves as a target on public forums for people to raise both positive and negative comments.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top