Scrambling in trailer- where to start?

[maya2008]

I would speak to vet once trailer checked. I have one who won’t travel forwards unless in a very stable trailer - she has arthritis in a front foot. One who won’t travel backwards happily - she has hind end issues. Both were like this yet sound in work for a long time. The first is now retired, but the second is still going happily. It does tell you something, but travelling is not the same as being ridden, so the same thing might not be an issue under saddle.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

OP, try him on the other side first, before medicating etc. Just to clarify for everyone about travelling a horse on the opposite side. I have very recently had in depth conversations with Ifor Williams (UK), about this very point.

We brought our Ifor 505 Classic over with us last year. When we moved my mare from the livery yard over here, to home, we suddenly thought about cambers etc and put her in the opposite side (I.e behind the driver over here, as We obviously drive on the opposite side of the road). She travelled terribly and struggled for balance so we went snail pace and got her home dripping in sweat.

The trailer had been fully serviced, aluminium floor checked, new brakes and new wheels and she had travelled in it absolutely fine in the UK not long before.

Anyway, we’ve had a delay as had to go through the registration process over here so it’s road legal (road tax payable for it too!). I rang Ifor Williams about two weeks ago to ask the very question about would it be safe to put her back in the side of the trailer we would travel her in, in the UK, I confirmed this is also the side that has the front ramp and I asked about whether the “rule” of always putting behind the driver for safety due to the road camber was correct (as we had always been taught that).

Ifor Williams have categorically confirmed to me that this was is an outdated “rule”, it was more relevant when trailers were less stable and far older (mine is a 2005 and I explained my trailer’s age). They confirmed that a horse should always be travelled in the side that the horse is most comfortable in, as trailers are far more stable and well balanced than years gone.

Hope that helps, as it was a big relief for me.

 

[Millie-Rose]

Mine had never been a good traveller anyway but started this in hindsight when she started having hock issues. Travelling on the left worked for a while I went all over the country like this fine. A lot of people will say not to but having done some research it seems it was an issue with older trailers but not so much with modern ones with better suspension. I decided in the end that standing quietly on the left had got to be better than chucking herself about on the right for trailer stability. Eventually that stopped working and she had to travel without partition. At around the same time she started occasionally stopping (was never lame) then we discovered hocks. I haven't tried again with partition as she got so anxious about it I don't think she'd have been any better and I don't often need to take two anyway.

 

[Michen]

I would speak to vet once trailer checked. I have one who won’t travel forwards unless in a very stable trailer - she has arthritis in a front foot. One who won’t travel backwards happily - she has hind end issues. Both were like this yet sound in work for a long time. The first is now retired, but the second is still going happily. It does tell you something, but travelling is not the same as being ridden, so the same thing might not be an issue under saddle.

Thanks- I definitely will

 

[Michen]

OP, try him on the other side first, before medicating etc. Just to clarify for everyone about travelling a horse on the opposite side. I have very recently had in depth conversations with Ifor Williams (UK), about this very point.

We brought our Ifor 505 Classic over with us last year. When we moved my mare from the livery yard over here, to home, we suddenly thought about cambers etc and put her in the opposite side (I.e behind the driver over here, as We obviously drive on the opposite side of the road). She travelled terribly and struggled for balance so we went snail pace and got her home dripping in sweat.

The trailer had been fully serviced, aluminium floor checked, new brakes and new wheels and she had travelled in it absolutely fine in the UK not long before.

Anyway, we’ve had a delay as had to go through the registration process over here so it’s road legal (road tax payable for it too!). I rang Ifor Williams about two weeks ago to ask the very question about would it be safe to put her back in the side of the trailer we would travel her in, in the UK, I confirmed this is also the side that has the front ramp and I asked about whether the “rule” of always putting behind the driver for safety due to the road camber was correct (as we had always been taught that).

Ifor Williams have categorically confirmed to me that this was is an outdated “rule”, it was more relevant when trailers were less stable and far older (mine is a 2005 and I explained my trailer’s age). They confirmed that a horse should always be travelled in the side that the horse is most comfortable in, as trailers are far more stable and well balanced than years gone.

Hope that helps, as it was a big relief for me.

Thats really helpful thank you for taking the time to write that out!

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Take out the partition. I’m taking mine out for a bit as Faran got a fright in the trailer a few weeks ago as a result of some bloody stupid idiots stopped in the middle of the country road I was on to have a chat through the windows to each other right after a blind bend and I came round with the trailer and had to cram in the brakes and the horn. Thank god I was only doing about 35mph even though it was a 60mph road or I’d have never have stopped.

So trying to make it more inviting for him and then we will go back to a partition as he’s getting reluctant to load which isn’t what I want, he’s always loaded fine.

 

[Michen]

Mine had never been a good traveller anyway but started this in hindsight when she started having hock issues. Travelling on the left worked for a while I went all over the country like this fine. A lot of people will say not to but having done some research it seems it was an issue with older trailers but not so much with modern ones with better suspension. I decided in the end that standing quietly on the left had got to be better than chucking herself about on the right for trailer stability. Eventually that stopped working and she had to travel without partition. At around the same time she started occasionally stopping (was never lame) then we discovered hocks. I haven't tried again with partition as she got so anxious about it I don't think she'd have been any better and I don't often need to take two anyway.

Thanks MR. Definitely feels like it can’t just be coincidence doesn’t it. I’ll get the trailer all checked then discuss medicating the hocks anyway with my vet (unless trailer check sorts it).

 

[brighteyes]

I think it might be a leg spreading issue as we have solved it by removing the rear partition in a 506 and travelled two with a 'token' partition comprising a webbing loading strap, but with full-width breeching, but that was a terrible faff. Once we found that worked, one of my lads made a skeleton replacement , just deep enough to fit the breeching sockets on. This worked just as well and has no rubber flap, which I think is also a contributory factor. I also agree it could well be a lameness presence symptom, but can't understand what the tipping point might be?
Is it can't balance with legs not spread? Or can't balance except with only one (the good?) leg to the inside or outside?

I recently bought a Cheval Liberte and so far have only travelled him in the offside as my son whapped round a corner and almost tipped him over ?when he was on the nearside in the 506 and he has been rubbish in that side ever since, unless given time to rebalance while cornering. I don't know whether to test out the much lauded 'Pullman' suspension which makes the CL so much smoother to tow than the IW and see if he is OK on the N/S!

IW have upgraded everything else on the newest versions but STILL have the leaf springs. While making road camber issues irrelevant - as far as which side to put the heaviest horse or a single traveller in a double partition behind the driver/nearest the crown of the road a thing of the past, they still give a much bumpier and more rattley ride.

In short, no partition and full width breechings will sort it, as will no back partition (and a full breeching). If you are very brave two can travel thus.

Final edit, tying the back one to one side and out of the way is a very short term, smooth road only thing to try as the partition can be bounced off while held in the removal position - which is hard to the side.

Image shows custom skeleton partition we made.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I dunno about the which side of the trailer the horse should be/the road camber thing being irrelevant these days. Though the main Ifor dealer also assured us recently that is now the case.

The roads here, both main and minor, tend to have pronounced cambers.

We used the trusty 510 classic + LWB Shogun combo as a removal vehicle a few months ago, when moving son no 1 into his new flat. The heavier things inc the bed and king size mattress (leaning up against the trailer side) went in on the near side, with the partition in

Loaded like that the trailer gave a horrible unsettled ride, which jerked at the Shogun (which takes some doing ). All good again on the return run empty, and since.

 

[Michen]

Hmmm ok all good things to consider. My preference would be he continued travelling as he is but I fix whatever’s caused him to now have an issue, whether that’s the trailer or hocks.

Brighteyes interesting what you said about yours starting up having previously had a bad experience. I put ice boots on Bog and travelled him home in them, which he definitely didn’t appreciate and that was the first time he did it I think. Obviously I haven’t used them since and he’s done it without..

Surely he can’t have now decided he can intermittently no longer balance because I popped boots on him for ten mins for the ride home from a lesson!? It was a stupid thing to do in hindsight as he hates boots behind of any sort but I thought I’d get away with it for a very short journey on a usually immaculate traveller.

I didn’t really connect it as he’s done it without them on too. But in between done 2 hour round trips without moving a muscle. Really odd.

 

[EllieBeast]

Hock arthritis. My old mare travelled well with a partition until she developed arthritis, she then struggled to stand until I took the petitions out. Stood like a rock when she had the whole trailer.

my current mare has arthritis in one hock, as it’s developed I have definitely noticed that she’s happier with more space when travelling. She doesn’t scrabble with the petitions in but is definitely more settled without them. I’d rather her be as comfortable as possible so just travel her alone now.

 

[SOS]

I didn’t even notice that the back partition and front could be separated ??. That’s interesting to hear!

I never travel any of mine with boots though. I’m sure Bear wouldn’t mind but Boggle absolutely hates them.

Okay I will admit I told a small white lie earlier - if I travel two of my own who are good or two good hunters then I don’t put boots on. Shoot me if you may but I think they stand easier without them. Thermatex wraps are a good alternative to stop little scratches!

As TP said, it’s easier to take partition off (one man job) then put it on (two man job as heavy and precise) ?

 

[Upthecreek]

Thanks. I’ll definitely do trailer check first then try him again. If he’s still doing it I think I’ll remedicate and then test other journey methods.

Is it really feasible that a horse could just start this sort of thing up out of no where and it not be physical or trailer induced do you think? ?

ETA see what you mean Re work up. It’s also so consistent, it’s always the same slightly positive flexion but trots out. Makes no difference if it’s from the field, having stood in stable for 12 hours, freezing weather, warm weather. So we have a pretty good overview of his “normal”.

I’ve never had a previously solid traveller start scrabbling for no reason. If it’s 12 months since hocks were injected I’d bet they need doing again. 6-12 months is the norm. I would never travel two with the back partition removed without them wearing travel boots. Seen some nasty injuries due to that.

 

[Michen]

Thanks all. I’ll call my vet on Monday and let you know the outcome!

 

[GinaGeo]

I have one that has never travelled well on the right hand side of a trailer, but traveled all over on the left or without a partition.

He now travels in a rear facing lorry behind the driver and the cameras show that he parks himself in the corner and puts his right hind out for balance. In the trailer on the right he couldn’t do that and that’s what caused the scrambling for him.

 

[Michen]

I have one that has never travelled well on the right hand side of a trailer, but traveled all over on the left or without a partition.

He now travels in a rear facing lorry behind the driver and the cameras show that he parks himself in the corner and puts his right hind out for balance. In the trailer on the right he couldn’t do that and that’s what caused the scrambling for him.

Thanks. I guess this is different as he’s previously been fine and it’s suddenly started, so something must have changed!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Did this start after you upgraded your tow vehicle? Your new vehicle is beefier and 'should' tow better, but it could be something as simple as the tow ball being at a different height affecting the ride in the trailer.

 

[brighteyes]

Hmmm ok all good things to consider. My preference would be he continued travelling as he is but I fix whatever’s caused him to now have an issue, whether that’s the trailer or hocks.

Brighteyes interesting what you said about yours starting up having previously had a bad experience. I put ice boots on Bog and travelled him home in them, which he definitely didn’t appreciate and that was the first time he did it I think. Obviously I haven’t used them since and he’s done it without..

Surely he can’t have now decided he can intermittently no longer balance because I popped boots on him for ten mins for the ride home from a lesson!? It was a stupid thing to do in hindsight as he hates boots behind of any sort but I thought I’d get away with it for a very short journey on a usually immaculate traveller.

I didn’t really connect it as he’s done it without them on too. But in between done 2 hour round trips without moving a muscle. Really odd.

This absolutely needs someone to do a large scale investigation. My lad wasn't wearing travel boots and trod on his o/s hind coronet, making a nasty hole which healed producing proud flesh. Miraculously this has disappeared and now he is unshod (all round) I am gradually reintroducing bare leg travelling behind. My nerves were shot as even booted up he managed to reopen it travelling by necessity in the N/S and shred his boots on that leg.
He travelled three hours to me facing the rear in the driver's side of a 3.5t stallion box and they have partitions down to the floor. The array of transport to try is probably prohibitive. I had a mare couldn't travel herringbone with floor length partitions but was fine either side of a trailer and in half-depth partitions herringbone. Be a fascinating study, if a tad nerve-wracking and harrowing to carry out!

 

[Michen]

Did this start after you upgraded your tow vehicle? Your new vehicle is beefier and 'should' tow better, but it could be something as simple as the tow ball being at a different height affecting the ride in the trailer.

Nope I got that in feb and he’s been out in it about once a week since.

The first time he did this was about 3 weeks ago I think… there or there abouts. Did it on way back from journey (ice boots) so didn’t think much of it. Then didn’t do it a few days later on a 2 hour round trip. Then did do it this week on a return journey both ways, about 30 mins round trip.

 

[L&M]

I’m sure he would but isn’t this just covering up a problem as to why he’s started doing it in the first place? Also makes things tricky with my other horse. Which is not the end of the world, long term I could change to rear facing or a bigger trailer if he needs the extra space.

Do people generally find the extra space in a 511 with partition in helps horses who need to travel in a 505 without partition?

My partner had a hunter that did similar - travelled fine with my cob for 6mths, then started going down on left hand bends and roundabouts.

We tried a Richardson Ultra (designed to take 2 x 17hh) and in our experience a larger trailer made no difference, if anything it made it worse as more space for him to scrabble!

The only option that worked was to travel them separately - him in the trailer and without a partition, and I got a little 3.5 t to travel my cob. A right pita and financial expense we could ill afford, but the only way to get them out together.

The only other option you may have is to try him in a 7.5t if you have the correct licence?

 

[jhoward]

Have you tried putting the breast bar down? It looks very high and if he's leaving on it could be causing to much pressure on the wrong parts of him

 

[Michen]

Have you tried putting the breast bar down? It looks very high and if he's leaving on it could be causing to much pressure on the wrong parts of him

Oh is it? I just thought that was a height for “normal” horses and the one below would be little ponies!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oh is it? I just thought that was a height for “normal” horses and the one below would be little ponies!

The top setting is very high. The 16.1hh IDx, who is built like a sh1t out house and wears 6'9" rugs, has the lower setting.

 

[milliepops]

yeah definitely a good call to try the lower setting, i have never used the top one for any of mine when they've been in a trailer.

 

[Michen]

Ooof I feel like a right idiot! I just assumed that was the normal setting. So should I change that in front and behind?

That said he’s always had that setting so somethings still changed. Or he’s realised his mother is an idiot and is trying to tell me to sort it out ?

ETA what about the “size of space” aka I put it on the settings that give him the most room.. should I think about moving them more inwards?

 

[brighteyes]

Wow re that last suggestion!

 

[ITPersonnage]

If it makes you feel any better I'm an idiot too, I always used that setting for mine

 

[Upthecreek]

Ooof I feel like a right idiot! I just assumed that was the normal setting. So should I change that in front and behind?

That said he’s always had that setting so somethings still changed. Or he’s realised his mother is an idiot and is trying to tell me to sort it out ?

ETA what about the “size of space” aka I put it on the settings that give him the most room.. should I think about moving them more inwards?

I didn’t notice the photo ? I can’t remember what size he is, but mine are 15.3 & 15.2 and they have front and back bars at the lower height. Length wise you don’t want them to be stood touching the bars, but they should be close enough to be able to lean on them without having to move their feet. Whatever is causing him to scrabble, being able to lean his chest or bum against the bars for support if needed should help.

 

[Michen]

I didn’t notice the photo ? I can’t remember what size he is, but mine are 15.3 & 15.2 and they have front and back bars at the lower height. Length wise you don’t want them to be stood touching the bars, but they should be close enough to be able to lean on them without having to move their feet. Whatever is causing him to scrabble, being able to lean his chest or bum against the bars for support if needed should help.

He’s 15.1 and in 6’3 rugs

 

[milliepops]

Same size as millie, I used the lower bars and gave her the most room in a 505 and moved the back one in on a 510, from memory.