Second chance? Hoof care provider.

[poiuytrewq]

This isn’t relating to the horse who’s X-rays I showed recently, it’s my old boy.
He’s been retired for 4/5 years.
I finally took his shoes off, just fronts. He had the hinds off about 18 months ago (at least)
I got a highly recommended trimmer to remove them and as expected he was incredibly sore and dramatically miserable. I’ve tried before to take his shoes off but always bow out and call the farrier after a few days!
This time with the trimmer having talked at length about how he’d get used to it and it was best I’m the long run I stuck it out and he did indeed start to Improve.
4 weeks later he was doing ok and had a trim now 9 days ago. He has been in absolute agony ever since. It’s awful, I have to force him to walk. I feel like I’m torturing him!
Getting him in and out is a battle and I feel really guilty afterwards. It’s all pretty miserable (especially as my other horse is bad aswell! ?)
So question is, do I give this guy a second chance?
I was going to tell him when he next comes which is early April but then wondered actually if, however much I like this guy and however good he is with the horses should I even let him have another go?
I kind of feel that it was the first trim and if he doesn’t know how incredibly sensitive this horse is and that now he knows (or will know once I’ve told him!) he can adjust the trim..... or do I never ever let him near my old man again just in case?
Ive syringed some Bute into him and tried to make a rubber mat path for him!
He’s breaking my heart (I’m hiding the ropes from him atm ??)

 

[ester]

Have you told the trimmer this has happened?
Do you have boots for him, it sounds like he definitely needs then.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Why on earth was he trimmed only 4 weeks after having his shoes taken off. No wonder the poor lad is sore. I would put him some hoof boots on and leave him to grow some foot for several weeks.

 

[SusieT]

If your horse is in agony I hope you have stabled him on a large soft bed and got the vet out to prescribe painkillers/check there isnt an abscess or laminitis?

 

[Tiddlypom]

It’s awful, I have to force him to walk. I feel like I’m torturing him!

By forcing him to walk when he’s so sore you are torturing him. He should be stabled on a deep shavings bed and if necessary given pain relief. Then boots on for a cautious return to turnout if he’s comfortable enough to cope. Or just get the shoes back on.

Did the trimmer not talk you through what to do when the shoes came off?

 

[poiuytrewq]

He is on a big soft bed yes. I’ve been giving Bute but he won’t eat hence syringing it in. He won’t stay in and is ok once out with the field being soft. He hates being stabled. He’s ok on his mat path. Yes I’ve got him some boots from the podiatry shop (?) online. They are helping.
The trimmer has said he’d be sore but movement was the best thing not leaving him in or buting (both of which I’ve tried/done)
4 weeks I know wasn’t long but he said he’d come back to check him and said he’d grown a bit of hoof when he did.

 

[ester]

I would disagree that movement is the best thing on sore hooves, because it isn't quality movement, it often isn't flat or heel first. Mooching in a soft field is a bit different though if that is all he is doing?

Untrimmed F went footy at 6 weeks, it isn't unusual that they get worse at that sort of point as the hooves wake up a bit. I would always have a limit on comfort levels though.

 

[poiuytrewq]

It’s absolutely all he’s doing. We have even cut a hole in the fence to get him on soft ground straight from the yard. I can’t leave him in 24/7 as he just gets distressed, I actually thought he was colicking one day but was swiftly fine on being let out.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

He is on a big soft bed yes. I’ve been giving Bute but he won’t eat hence syringing it in. He won’t stay in and is ok once out with the field being soft. He hates being stabled. He’s ok on his mat path. Yes I’ve got him some boots from the podiatry shop (?) online. They are helping.
The trimmer has said he’d be sore but movement was the best thing not leaving him in or buting (both of which I’ve tried/done)
4 weeks I know wasn’t long but he said he’d come back to check him and said he’d grown a bit of hoof when he did.

I wouldn't let that trimmer near him again, how much hoof could he possibly have grown in 4 weeks, after having the shoes removed? His hooves would be shorter than an unshod/barefoot horse's hooves anyway. FGS get the farrier who knows him to have a look at his feet - if your farrier won't just automatically say he needs shoes on.

 

[Suechoccy]

I would treat the pain with boots (or have regular farrier put shoes back on) and then get my regular farrier (the one who used to shoe him) out in about 8 weeks' time to look over his feet (if barefoot). Definitely wouldn't have the trimmer back.

 

[Suechoccy]

will he eat danilon? if so get that instead of bute and sprinkle on his feed.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The trimmer has said he’d be sore but movement was the best thing not leaving him in or buting (both of which I’ve tried/done)

Your trimmer is wrong. It is both cruel and counterproductive to force a horse to move when it is very footsore. I am shocked at his advice - and I have used a trimmer, whose advice was to keep it in and get it comfortable before turnout in boots when the horse has its shoes removed. I’ve sacked my trimmer now and gone back to a farrier, for other reasons. Trimmers don’t get the in depth training that farriers do, and sometimes it shows.

As your lad is retired and won’t stay in, and the current wet ground conditions are not conducive to wearing boots for turnout, I’d just get the horse comfortable in the quickest way possible, which is probably to put shoes back on.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Sack the trimmer. What a clown.

Can you put pads in his boots?

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Why on earth did he need trimming only 4 weeks after having his shoes off!!! Let him grow a bit of foot and just run a rasp round the edge to tidy up.

 

[poiuytrewq]

It was more an am I being hasty/unfair not explaining the situation to this guy question. I think I’m doing all I can right now management wise. Bed,painkillers boots mats etc
He’s my others and they are doing ok. I also feel he’s taught me more about hoof care in the past few months than any farrier ever has. The horse was doing pretty well Prior to this trim.
Keeping him in is a no go, he’s been in far too much this winter anyway as it is because he has arthritis and being retired needs to be allowed movement. The shoes came off now as the vet mentioned it may be a good idea due to concussion on hard ground (come summer!) I thought taking them off now would give him a chance to get used to it before the field was rock hard.
My old farrier won’t come this far for one set of fronts and as per my other post recently shoes on my other horse just isn’t really an option at the moment. I could find someone more locally though maybe.

 

[pansymouse]

Go back to your farrier; when it comes to complex and challenging cases they have the depth a of knowledge and training to advise the best course of action. These days any decent farrier will fully support unshod if it's the best thing for the horse (mine actually suggested it!).

 

[Templebar]

Sorry OP but i would go back to your farrier, most farriers will do barefoot just fine and trim as needed. If he knows the horse and therefore its feet he should be able to manage what you want. I would say the most he will need is a quick rasp round the edge to tidy at the moment but not even that for at least a month or more. You may have to put the shoes back on in the mean time.

This is not to have a go at you but in general i don't understand when people have used a farrier to shoe for years when going without shoes suddenly we must get a barefoot trimmer in (a lot don't even have any qualifications!).

Maybe I am just lucky and have an excellent farrier and my previous farrier taught him and their view is if the horse doesn't need shoes then take them off. 3 of my 5 are barefoot one of which hunts and pretty much self trims, the other two are retirees, one working who has shoes and one not in work currently who has bad foot confo with shoes (fronts) but we keep trying without and the farrier would prefer without.

 

[Pointless1]

Have you tried padding his boots? Sheeps wool etc is good.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Well, I certainly wouldn't let that trimmer within a mile of my horses, neither of whom have shoes. I have had 2 excellent farriers looking after their feet, neither of whom have ever suggested shoeing them. We only swapped farriers for logistical reasons.

TBH, any-one with even the slightest amount of knowledge about horses' feet should have known that 4 weeks after having shoes taken off was too soon for *ANY* horse to be trimmed, let alone one with sensitve feet.

 

[ktj1891]

Don't trim him. My mare only gets a trim about every 4 months and even then she has been sore so I am just going to leave her until she really needs it, if she isn't wearing them down herself. I have a rasp and can file her down a little myself.

In essence, my advice would be don't trim, let him grow a bit of length and hoof wall, I bet he would be a lot more comfortable. He doesn't need a trim just to make his feet look 'pretty'.

 

[Reacher]

I would definitely tell the trimmer how sore he is otherwise he doesn’t know he has made the horse sore. Irrespective of whether you have him back. I would probably look for a new trimmer/farrier or go back to your old farrier.
I would get hoof boots (if you don’t have any) and some good thick pads for when you need to move him. How does he move on rubber mats? and on soft ground?

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ll cancel the next appointment for all and get the old farrier to shoe all 3 again.
I started using him because the difficult horse had a different farrier and he bailed out on me, it wasn’t just a fancy a change swap. This guy sorted out a neighbours TB with awful feet and so I figured worth a try.
Thanks.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I would definitely tell the trimmer how sore he is otherwise he doesn’t know he has made the horse sore. Irrespective of whether you have him back. I would probably look for a new trimmer/farrier or go back to your old farrier.
I would get hoof boots (if you don’t have any) and some good thick pads for when you need to move him. How does he move on rubber mats? and on soft ground?

He’s ok in the field, better on mats than concrete but not good.

 

[southerncomfort]

I've used barefoot trimmers for 13 years and none of mine were ever in that much pain.

As above, get some good padding in the boots. Maybe try Danilon if he won't take bute.

TBH I'd be having the vet out to have a look just to make sure their isn't any underlying issue such as laminitis as shoes can mask the symptoms. And of course in an older horse Cushings is always a possibility.

Hope you can get him comfortable, I know its horrible to see them in pain.

 

[gunnergundog]

Either buy the pads that go with whatever make of boot you are using or make your own by cutting up a yoga mat or something similar. What make of boots have you got? Some will provide more relief than others. Have you looked at his diet? That may need tweaking. Also, hoof armour has been a god send for me, but get vet to check him first.

 

[holeymoley]

As above. 4 weeks post shoe removal is not enough growth for anything barefoot to warrant a trim let alone something that’s just came out of shoes. I would expect him to be sore but unsure as sore as you describe- I’d be checking for stretched white line etc or anything to indicate laminitic pain.

 

[Reacher]

Sounds like you are doing everything you can. I hope he is comfortable soon. (Sorry I missed in your OP where you said you had boots but pads would probably be useful too.)

I think holeymoley has a good point to check for any laminitic signs.

FWIW my 2 grow quite a bit of hoof in 4 weeks, even retired mare who doesn’t get as much movement as I’d like especially in winter. I rasp mine in between visits (about fortnightly, though varies) to try and keep the hooves close to how they were left at the trim. I always get told off at the next visit (6 weekly) that I’ve not taken enough off!

It’s seems odd that your trimmer didn’t recognise there wasn’t anything to take off. It is always a minefield changing your farrier / trimmer, even if you used someone recommended. I once changed farriers to one recommended by a YO - ballsed up the hoof balanced and made the horse lame.

There have been a few comments on different threads criticising people for changing from a farrier to a trimmer. I have done, because I wasn’t happy with the service being provided by the farriers I had used. I’m very happy with how knowledgeable and experienced my trimmer is - before I swapped I went on a course run by the trimmer for horse owners where we were taught about diet etc, trimmed cadaver feet and watched a cadaver foot being dissected. I’m happy that my trimmer is as knowledgeable about hoof anatomy, foot balance and management as any farrier.
If you have got a good farrier that is great - and if you later want shoes back on then that’s easy too. But if someone swaps to a trimmer they generally have a reason for doing so and are just trying to do the best for their horse.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Sounds like you are doing everything you can. I hope he is comfortable soon. (Sorry I missed in your OP where you said you had boots but pads would probably be useful too.)

I think holeymoley has a good point to check for any laminitic signs.

FWIW my 2 grow quite a bit of hoof in 4 weeks, even retired mare who doesn’t get as much movement as I’d like especially in winter. I rasp mine in between visits (about fortnightly, though varies) to try and keep the hooves close to how they were left at the trim. I always get told off at the next visit (6 weekly) that I’ve not taken enough off!

It’s seems odd that your trimmer didn’t recognise there wasn’t anything to take off. It is always a minefield changing your farrier / trimmer, even if you used someone recommended. I once changed farriers to one recommended by a YO - ballsed up the hoof balanced and made the horse lame.

There have been a few comments on different threads criticising people for changing from a farrier to a trimmer. I have done, because I wasn’t happy with the service being provided by the farriers I had used. I’m very happy with how knowledgeable and experienced my trimmer is - before I swapped I went on a course run by the trimmer for horse owners where we were taught about diet etc, trimmed cadaver feet and watched a cadaver foot being dissected. I’m happy that my trimmer is as knowledgeable about hoof anatomy, foot balance and management as any farrier.
If you have got a good farrier that is great - and if you later want shoes back on then that’s easy too. But if someone swaps to a trimmer they generally have a reason for doing so and are just trying to do the best for their horse.

Thank you for that!
yes, I’d had problems a few issues with my farrier and this recommendation seemed a good way to go.
Appreciate your reply!

 

[poiuytrewq]

He’s been tested a few times for cushings, always negative. He did once have laminitis years ago when I put him out in a big grass field thinking it was a lovely way to retire, it wasn’t and I’ve been super careful ever since with him. Pretty sure it is just being trimmed too short. He was walking fine after having adjusted a bit to no shoes and crippled after the trim so I’m confident it is just that.

So, I could get my old farrier but don’t want his newer partner to ever do any of my horses. Can I say that without looking really rude?
Or I get another new person involved.
Secondly how do I word my message to trimmer man....
Hi, I’m going to have to cancel the next appointment as my horse was way too sore after his last trim and still is, have therefore decided putting shoes back on is the correct option for them.....

Is something like that ok? I’m shit at sacking people ?

 

[HappyHollyDays]

If you really don’t want to shoe him again call Mark Johnson and see if he will look after his feet. He just about reaches your area, is a Farrier but specialises in barefoot, is honest, says it how it is and never does anything unnecessarily.