Serious canter issues!

[Charla]

Long story short, horse was only backed in December 2017. Have done lots of hacking and some schooling since. Huge, powerful paces. The walk and trot is fabulous, soft, supple, forward and very active and now consistent.

The canter, is a complete disaster. Her canter is naturally huge and active and perhaps too powerful, her hocks are so bendy and she really steps underneath herself. The issue I am having, is she is happy to canter round at her own pace, which is fast and on the forehand, which she then becomes strong, yanks rider out of the seat and has no respect for brakes. It may take a whole school length to get back to trot. Also difficult to turn at speed and on the forehand, so 20m circles are hair raising to say the least and often head straight for the fence.

If you ask her to sit on her hocks in the transition, she comes back at you and won't travel forwards in the canter. Leaps, launches and rears. If you allow her to fall in to the canter and then ask for the even slightest of collection, she either fights all contact, grabs the bit and ******* off, or falls back to trot and then doesn't wish to canter on again, starts the leaping business.

I have tried various instructors, all seem to think different things - 'she's taking the piss' 'she finds it too hard' 'she's just weak behind' but the problem is, none have overcome the problem and after a couple of months we still have no change.

If you canter her round a course of jumps, she manages this - is it because she's got something else to concentrate on? She also can't bare a narrow school, needs lots of space to be able to do big wide turns.

She's had physio, no issues found, she's had her teeth done, no issues found, she's had her saddle checked - it fits 'ok' at the moment, but a new one is on order which fits even better. Hopefully will be here next week!

I've tried sticking to just canter out hacking for the last two weeks to make it enjoyable and although strong, not too bad going in a straight line. Back in the school and as soon as I asked for the canter, tantrums and rears.

I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I am a light, sympathetic rider and am not asking anything complex. Has anyone had similar experiences with the canter?

 

[Apercrumbie]

Hmmm it could be a case of big, weak baby and that is common. However I would also consider a vet check to be sure. If all is well, I would continue cantering only on hacks while she strengthens up - this will take a lot more than 2 weeks. What is like to canter on the lunge when she doesn't have a rider to look after?

 

[DirectorFury]

You say she's had physio but has an actual vet looked at her about this issue? If not that would be my first port of call as it's the most likely issue.

If all clear vet-wise then I'd go back to basics and make sure I could stop and steer in walk and trot with just my seat - no reins. Then I'd look to introduce tiny bits of canter, just two or three strides, on a 20m circle; making sure that she came back to trot immediately just by asking with my seat. Assuming that went well I'd slowly build up the amount of canter, staying on the 20m circle, until we could canter 3-4 circles without running off and always coming back to trot as soon as I asked.
I'd then slowly start cantering down the long side but just doing it for half the length first, always checking that the downwards transition is there. Lots and lots of transitions in and out of canter, through the different canters, etc. Some SI and leg yield to keep the engine engaged.

I've been there with mine but she was young and I was asking too much. No medical issues found so we built up slowly and now she works nicely in the canter. It took a long time - about a year - before I could rely on her to canter several circuits of the school without doing something stupid.

 

[be positive]

I don't think she is "taking the piss" but the other suggestions have merit and it is probably a combination of her having more movement than she can cope with, being weak and unbalanced which means it is extremely hard for her at the moment to coordinate and remain in canter without going faster, jumping is different as each jump will help with her balance and give her a break from having to work to remain in balance, you are probably allowing her to travel more forward as well.

These horses can be very difficult and frustrating at times because progress seems so slow but I would take a slightly different approach and still canter out hacking but do a little more jumping not for the sake of jumping but to use the time to work on the canter without it being "schooling" a few fences set up that can be used to help her focus and popped to keep her moving forward so you can jump, canter a circle, trot, canter into a fence and canter another circle can really help, as can some simple grids set to allow you to shorten her slightly and get her back end under her without her knowing what is going on, bounces, poles on the ground to trot or canter over are useful.

The other thing I would probably do is some lunging to help her balance without the rider, get her listening to your voice so she does clear transitions and learns that steady means steady so you can then use the voice as an aid when on board, you need someone to work with that can think more outside the box, it will not happen overnight but you should feel real improvements within a couple of months.

 

[ihatework]

I’ve got a whopping great young horse with a massive canter, he was broken in last August and the canter still isn’t truely established.

I didn’t do much canter in our little 20x40 on a slope arena for quite some time as it was counter productive. He did the bulk of his early canter school work either in a massive school or up the gallops. The latter was really productive - nice long steady incline so you can play with gears/transitions etc

His canter also improved loads when doing jump exercises

 

[Charla]

Thank you for all your replies.

Be positive, that's really helpful and interesting. She was broken in later on in life and is actually a 6 year old, which gives the appearance of a stronger horse, but clearly she is not able to carry herself. She was with the breeder, had a foal and then left pretty much untouched until I bought her.

Lunging wise, she can canter ok on a nice big circle, and it is clear to see, the canter is big and on the forehand and a little erratic. I will certainly do more of this. Along with grids and jump exercises to take her concentration elsewhere as it has clearly now become a 'big deal now when schooling.'

I have not had the vet out yet, purely because I wanted to rule out all the basis initially and give her chance to come right with schooling, or rather from having a break from schooling, which hasn't happened. Therefore it is now something I shall look in to.

 

[milliepops]

good advice upthread, I'd also add that you don't have to be cantering to improve the canter. My younger horse (restarted aged 7) had a bumbling out of balance canter that was really difficult for her so I focussed on making her as supple and responsive as she can be in walk and trot. We started shoulder in and leg yield, worked really hard on straightness, transitions etc.
We then returned to the canter with a horse that now has better balance and more education - the canter itself is easier as a result because I can contain her in turns and ride a little shoulder fore to help her balance. It's a work in progress but this seems to have helped get her over a bit of a hump.

 

[Charla]

I’ve got a whopping great young horse with a massive canter, he was broken in last August and the canter still isn’t truely established.

I didn’t do much canter in our little 20x40 on a slope arena for quite some time as it was counter productive. He did the bulk of his early canter school work either in a massive school or up the gallops. The latter was really productive - nice long steady incline so you can play with gears/transitions etc

His canter also improved loads when doing jump exercises

Thank you! This is great to hear! I know time, patience and the correct building work is essential. I just feel so disheartened, she's a genuine, fab mare with loads of potential, however the canter is really holding us back.

 

[Charla]

good advice upthread, I'd also add that you don't have to be cantering to improve the canter. My younger horse (restarted aged 7) had a bumbling out of balance canter that was really difficult for her so I focussed on making her as supple and responsive as she can be in walk and trot. We started shoulder in and leg yield, worked really hard on straightness, transitions etc.
We then returned to the canter with a horse that now has better balance and more education - the canter itself is easier as a result because I can contain her in turns and ride a little shoulder fore to help her balance. It's a work in progress but this seems to have helped get her over a bit of a hump.

Another really helpful and interesting reply. I really enjoy her trot work as she is so elastic and I agree, I should concentrate further on the schooling in the trot and more lateral work.

 

[MissTyc]

I also have one who needed to be able to win the Walk/Trot olympics before she could establish a correct and balanced canter. Something finally went CLICK 2 years after backing, although I hasten to add that I don't have my own school so I am sure she would have progressed more quickly with a school! Mine needed to become responsive and light in walk and trot, mastering those transitions + lateral work. For about 6 months I only cantered on hacks and in between jumps IF she offered. Then started focussing on the trot-canter and canter-trot transitions in the school we hire sometimes - keeping balance and rhythm and not worrying about how many strides she could do .. Lunging with elevated poles really helped her figure out how to maintain the canter without collapsing and then it went click, just like that. She was backed 6 like yours, and finally finished growing and looks and behaves like a real horse age 8!

 

[Cortez]

Less canter, not more, is the most useful thing at this stage. So transitions to canter (initially from trot, but better out of walk) on a circle or into a corner, half or three quarters circle, then back to trot and walk for 3/4 circle, and repeat. The idea is to stop just before she flops onto the forehand, rebalance through a transition, then back up into canter. How big is the horse?

 

[alibali]

Soooo much good advice for those more experienced than me above!

Although your horse is 6 it has been backed less than 6 months so really you need to think of them more like a 4 year old. Two extra years sitting in a field does not train/strengthen/condition their body (or mind!) at all.

Sounds like your horse is blessed with fantastic big athletic paces which is great in the long run but more difficult for an inexperienced horse to get to grips with in a confined area. A horse with a small scratchy stride will find it easier to scrabble around the short side taking 10 strides than a long striding horse who may only have 6 strides to play with.....

 

[Farma]

I was riding a horse last year that sounds so similar, huge powerful wb, walk and trot were absolutely lovely from the off but the canter was so big it was like the wall of death, I wouldn't have dared try with someone else in the arena as it would have been a disaster, but lots of small goes at it, going into it and then coming back to trot quickly then trying again, I stayed in a semi light seat and just tried to use my seat and voice to slow down to go back to trot or it would have been a tug of war. I used to let her canter up a hill that was on our hack route which helped and taught her to canter from walk early on, I would say it took around 4 months of that to be able to canter in a nicely balanced fashion. There were times early on it felt like an uphill battle that was forever away but it is surprising how much your patience will be rewarded!