Serious facial injury picking out feet-how to avoid another?

catembi

catembi

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My ID mare was imported from Ireland and is not used to having her feet done. She is barefoot which involves scrupulous care, sole cleanse, field paste etc.

On Sunday, I did her front foot, moved onto the back foot and she wasn’t being very compliant. ‘Something’ happened... I still don’t remember what... and the next thing I remember is being at the kitchen table holding a hot cloth to quite a nasty facial injury with no memory of how I got there. Visit to A and E, followed by visit to maxillo facial surgeon the next day to see about reconstructing my face.

Luckily MRI and X-ray show no serious damage, and it should all sort itself out BUT I really need to start on the foot care again, and I daren’t. Partly because I can’t remember what happened. I always stand to the side, am aware of her body language, etc. I would suspect she pulled away rather than kicked. But I don’t know.

I wasn’t wearing a hat, and it wouldn’t have helped as the damage is on my chin. Is there a different type of helmet with face protection that would withstand a kick? Should I man up and get on with it? Can’t even contemplate it til the current damage has cleared up! And it wasn’t really the horse’s fault as no-one has taught her any better.
 
It’s really difficult to know what happens when you’re down there, I got caught by a friends who could be a bit leg happy, somehow he sliced my top lip open on the opposite side of my face to the one nearest him, I guess I had a reflex action.
 
How terrible. Only thing I can think of is a downhill mountain biking helmet or motorbike helmet. Seems a bit extreme but it will cover your face and prevent head injury still.
I hope you make a speedy recovery
 
Oh dear, hope you heal quickly :( Just a thought but could you pull back on the scrupulousness of your hoof care for a bit and work more on getting her used to having her feet handled? Sorry if you've already went through this stage but personally I'd rather have my face intact than get it smashed in trying to apply hoof paste.
 
Ouch. Hope you get better soon. I fractured my cheekbone in a (totally non-horsey) fall on holiday so know how you feel. I looked like a beaten wife for a good few weeks. All I can suggest is a rubber glove stuffed with straw on a stick to de-senstise her, although this won't help with the lifting and keeping it there, just with the touching. It might be a good first step though? I remember someone I know who worked with youngsters always lifting legs with the opposite side next to a wall so they could lean on it if they felt they were losing balance. Having never dealt with youngsters I've no idea if this is 'correct' but they seemed to think it worked.
 
The polo / polocrosse crowd have face covers that protect them from a fast moving ball. I have no idea whether they would fix to a normal riding hat, but worth a look.

My appaloosa was horrendous with her feet when she first came to me. I was warned it was sedation to have them trimmed, but the speed of her reactions - and complete lack of warning - was eye opening. I spent a lot of time with a stuffed glove on the end of a stick getting her used to having them touched. She got thrush and I filled a puddle with dettol for a paddle at one point. I definitely would not having been putting any products on her feet at that point for my own safety.

I now know some of her issue was pain related so if she gets twitchy the foot goes down, I back off and go back a few minutes later. Clicker training has been really good for her because she's very food orientated.

I agree with Atropa. For now, I'd back off on the maintenance and just work on handling her feet safely.
 
Ouch. Scary too.

I agree with atropa. Scale back the foot care. My Irish mare was funny with her hinds when she first arrived... all I asked at first was for her to pick them up. Then to pick them up and hold them still. Then to allow a quick scrape with the pick. Etc etc. It took some time but taking it slowly made things easier more quickly I think, rather than constantly battling. Her frogs were horribly thrushy when we got her as well but I had to refrain from cleaning etc until she was much happier with her feet being handled. She survived and her thrush didn't get worse. Take the pressure off yourself a bit.

I hope you feel better soon.
 
I've got two unshod horses - and they don't need any care at all, really.
I seldom even have to pick out their feet.
If I were you, I'd leave the 'scrupulous foot care' until there is someone with you, don't bend too low, and don't put her leg between your knees - hold it very loosely, and stand to the side.
Make sure your arm is in front of the leg, not crossing behind the tendons, too, so she can't break your arm with a kick.
 
I am sorry you have had a nasty injury. When we were buying green ones in very few had any idea of how to do feet. I would recommend the following...

1. Yes a hat. You may not have the front of your face protected, but at least you won't be shoved backwards into a wall with your head.

2. Have someone to help as I think being tied up when not feeling balanced can make some panic. When they panic they are more likely to wrestle their feet off you.

3. have the 'someone to help' to be a horse aware person, then if the horse is likely to swipe at you they can turn the head towards you and redirect.

4. Make it about teaching the horse to be handles for a few days, rather than about doing the feet. For this I would have them firstly happy to be handled with feet on the floor, then lifting just a smidge and back down, and build it up.

5. If a horse has learned to kick out or snatch to get you off, then I use a rope around the pastern initially so they can try to kick/snatch and it does not get them anywhere. I just keep it held and give it back when they relax.


6. I would have the farrier back out to have a look, as it is possible that there was a pocket of thrush that really hurt her when you picked it, causing her to react.
 
H’mm, I was thinking motorcycle helmet... Hadn’t thought of martial arts. I do JKD, but won’t be doing it for a bit!

Injury: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvE1uPKPkzrCJY5JD

I am NOT a thing of great beauty atm, but I’m alive, and less mangled than I’d have been if she’d had shoes on...

So maybe get some face protection and then start with basis pick out and sole cleanse before we go onto field paste, which takes longer. I have just moved and stables haven’t been delivered yet, so it will be better when I can tie her up properly.

I don’t mind looking stupid while doing feet...they are at home so no-one to see me. And I look pretty stupid now anyway with my poor mashed face 😥😥
 
catembi said:
H’mm, I was thinking motorcycle helmet... Hadn’t thought of martial arts. I do JKD, but won’t be doing it for a bit!

Injury: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ArXRIdpOCNNFvE1uPKPkzrCJY5JD

I am NOT a thing of great beauty atm, but I’m alive, and less mangled than I’d have been if she’d had shoes on...

So maybe get some face protection and then start with basis pick out and sole cleanse before we go onto field paste, which takes longer. I have just moved and stables haven’t been delivered yet, so it will be better when I can tie her up properly.

I don’t mind looking stupid while doing feet...they are at home so no-one to see me. And I look pretty stupid now anyway with my poor mashed face ����
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I wouldn't be starting with basic pick out, I would be going right back to getting her totally happy with being touched all over her body and then her legs. It is likely that whatever happened will still be in her head as something very unsettling, and she needs to be totally relaxed with what you are doing before you start getting close enough to actually pick out her feet or apply anything to them.

Speaking as someone who has handled an awful lot of big Irish horses who have never really had their legs and feet handled properly before ....

Also, it is worth everyone having a look at where farriers position themselves when doing hinds - they tuck themselves right under the flank, where they are in the safest place if a horse pulls away or tries to boot them. Horse owners tend to stand too far out, where they are right in the line of fire.
 
That sounds grim, poor you :(

SEL said:
The polo / polocrosse crowd have face covers that protect them from a fast moving ball. I have no idea whether they would fix to a normal riding hat, but worth a look.
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They don't fix to normal riding hats - CO make a face guard compliant hats (PAS etc) and New Derby / various polo makes (which doesn't meet those standards). However it wouldn't help the OP, I don't think, as it wouldn't protect the chin. A motor cycle helmet, though a bit unaesthetic, probably would.
 
How about a cricket helmet, with the face guard to protect your face? But I wouldn't be picking those feet out, or applying field paste, or anything else until she is much happier about having her feet picked up. Go right back to basics and clicker training works, even with those who are not particularly food oriented. Our then 3 yr old Appaloosa got an abscess not long after we got her and got thoroughly upset, to the point of needing sedation to get it sorted out. Then sister had to go back to the beginning with teaching her to have her front feet dealt with (she was fine with the backs as the abscess was in a front), clicker training and patience sorted it.
 
Yeah, I do the positioning thing that I think Rowreach is describing (it's quite hard to describe). Essentially you step forwards and under the horse with your leg closest to them as you pick the hoof up holding the inside of the hoof. It works with most because it supports the leg, holds it still unless they really try to snatch it away, and if they do try to really snatch it away you get a microsecond advance warning as you feel the movement/muscle tense on your thigh first.

Best to practice on a horse that is reliably good with its feet first though to get the hang of the technique.
 
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Ouch, that looks painful. My Sec d was dreadful to even have her hind legs touched when I got her. I started with a stuffed glove on a stick until she was happy to be touched all over then I used a lead rope to hold her leg up, didn’t take long to get her used to it and now she picks feet up for me. I also have unshod horses and they don’t need any special care. They have their feet picked out and that’s that. I haven’t even heard of field paste! Just stick to the basics and don’t move on until horse is happy with that stage, however long it may take.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
How about a cricket helmet, with the face guard to protect your face? But I wouldn't be picking those feet out, or applying field paste, or anything else until she is much happier about having her feet picked up. Go right back to basics and clicker training works, even with those who are not particularly food oriented. Our then 3 yr old Appaloosa got an abscess not long after we got her and got thoroughly upset, to the point of needing sedation to get it sorted out. Then sister had to go back to the beginning with teaching her to have her front feet dealt with (she was fine with the backs as the abscess was in a front), clicker training and patience sorted it.
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I was also thinking cricket helmet.
 
DabDab said:
Yeah, I do the positioning thing that I think Rowreach is describing (it's quite hard to describe). Essentially you step forwards and under the horse with your leg closest to them as you pick the hoof up holding the inside of the hoof. It works with most because it supports the leg, holds it still unless they really try to snatch it away, and if they do try to really snatch it away you get a microsecond advance warning as you feel the movement/muscle tense on your thigh first.

Best to practice on a horse that is reliably good with its feet first though to get the hang of the technique.
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Found a video....hopefully this link will work: https://youtu.be/vW1PvMRo2PU
 
catembi said:
Post a picture of what you mean, Rowreach? Re positioning? Thank you.
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A picture??? Me??? I've still not mastered that! I had a Google and can't really find a clear one, but basically they get really close to the horse's flank, so in front of the hind leg, run the hand down the hind leg, and draw it forward, which is a lot lot safer than what most people do which is to stand alongside the leg and draw it backwards.

But I wouldn't be attempting any of that until she is truly relaxed about being touched all over her body and legs, without being asked to pick up. Then ask her to lift her feet but don't expect any more than that. Back to basics with her. She probably never had basics in Ireland.
 
H’mm, I was thinking that I was being feeble but now perhaps I was being too ambitious... She is basically a good girl but there is a lot she doesn’t understand, and also an awful lot of her!
 
The last one I had I was told had stood like an angel for the farrier .... it was weeks before he was relaxed enough for me to trust him. If Summer has had a rushed experience of having her feet done over here, then the slightest thing will create an overreaction.
 
Judging by her feet, she only has one or possibly two sets of nail holes, so it is likely that a set of shoes were banged on to sell her. So she might never have been shod previously.

I really don’t want my sore mouth anywhere near those feet atm...especially as I can’t remember what happened! I have mystery bruises appearing all over...elbow had a good bash and scrape, there’s one on my knee... inside of left arm, on my neck... I don’t remember any of it! Apparently I said ‘I don’t know what happened’ at least 30 times, and it’s still true. And baffling...Trev for example was quick and quirky with his feet, and I always managed to stay out of their way!
 
Cant offer any advice on the best way forward but re safety, if you dont mind looking like a plank and very OTT what about something like an ice hockey/ baseball/american football type helmet with faceguard to protect that very sore looking injury :(
 
catembi said:
H’mm, I was thinking that I was being feeble but now perhaps I was being too ambitious... She is basically a good girl but there is a lot she doesn’t understand, and also an awful lot of her!
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I don't think you were being feeble at all - I'm afraid unless a hoof is falling off I don't stress about foot care too much with my youngsters and just let them learn gradually about picking feet up for me. All three of my current horses came with zero hoof lifting education and I'd owned each of them a good nine months before I was routinely picking their feet out. Obviously if there had been a reason that I had to care for their feet then I would have sorted it somehow, but otherwise I don't worry too much about having to teach them in any kind of timeframe.
 
DabDab said:
Found a video....hopefully this link will work: https://youtu.be/vW1PvMRo2PU
Click to expand...


I didn't watch the whole video but the thing that stands out to me about farriers vs most owners is how close they are to the horse, as shown in the vid - even if the horse does manage to wriggle free to go to get you, it hasn't got the force behind it if you are that close. If you're further away you tend to be at the range of movement where the hoof has got some force to knock you flying or really hurt.

Sorry you've had an accident, OP, small steps and if she hasn't had her feet done for all this time in her life, another few weeks or months isn't going to hurt her, while you establish some confidence, understanding and ground rules.
 
I realise that I’m coming across as an inexperienced idiot but in the sales video of her, it specifically showed a young lady going around and picking up all four feet in turn, and she most definitely did NOT get a hoof in the face! And as she arrived shod, I just assumed...so when I was finding her trickier than expected, I thought (rightly or wrongly) well, you did it for her (lady in sales video) so you can jolly well do it for ME. So I thought she was pushing boundaries/being bolshy rather than genuinely clueless.

A previous ID mare had stringhalt and was ‘interesting’ re feet, but we always managed!
 
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