Session 17 warts & all.....

Armas said:
Not a trainer just a friend whose arena I use. She rode him once as she had never ridden a Spanish horse.
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Ahh ok, what I was really doing was pointing out the nuances to those that felt he was going better then than he is now. He was not.
 
Goingforgold said:
Your knowledge of PRE's shines through. I hope James is reading.
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Er... cheers. But I've never ridden a PRE in my life. Would love to own one and might go that way for the next horse, but she most definitely is not:
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It's just horses in general, really, that I apply everything I wrote about above to. Any horse. I did have a classical trainer for a while, back in the US, and I know the people she learned from with were into Iberians.
 
but Armas on a previous thread you said you wanted to do dressage on him and equitation?? Now you want to be an 'owner'??

If I wanted to have a horse to compete under others I would not have selected Armas and likely taken said rider to help me choose, the same as I would not have chosen Frank even though he would likely have done better under someone other than me.

there were a few posts while I was typing! Like Caol Ila I cannot see that the more advanced work is necessary for correct/strong back/straight working.

If he hasn't seen the vet recently I would get one to see him, under saddle, see what is said/recommended and go from there, possibly giving him a break if indicated.
 
its utter rubbish that a gp horse is too sensitive for anyone to ride. my gp horse was as safe as houses i put complete novices on him but his canter pirouettes were so good that stephen clarke used to borrow him for demos...

it totally depends on the horse - not the training...
 
Amaranta said:
Well I have to disagree, I see a horse hollowing through his back, fussing in the contact and also, at times, coming behind the vertical, and at others above, there is a muscle under his neck that would only get worse if he had continued to be ridden in that way. There is a lot of poll twisting and throwing of the right shoulder too. The rider's hands are awful and move about continually and she also is incapable of feeling that the horse is not straight. The shoulder in (or was it a leg yield - so bad it was difficult to tell!) was completely incorrect and the quarters were in the next county.

I also believe that there was an issue in the SI BEFORE James had him and I have told James this, if you look at the videos of him at the sales yard, he moves very wide behind and refuses to strike off on the correct canter lead, nothing James has done has caused it and, as I have already said, although I do not like everything about Virginie (would still like to see him long and low for much longer), she is at least balanced in the saddle and is not responsible for this horse going BTV.

PRE's when asked to take a contact often respond by going BTV, this horse is a prime example, this is why they respond better to leg and seat rather than hand.
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Ah you misinterpret. I wasnt saying Armas was being ridden better, or working better in that video, just that he seemed to have more spirit, more life in him. If that makes sense :)
 
I may be being dim but I'm a bit confuzzled. In the very first thread in this recent string the comment was, either from Armas or his 'team' (for want of a better word) that this was an incredibly hot horse who is not easy to ride. I don't see how that can be reconciled with today's view that he is a gentle horse who many people can ride including a young girl who jumps bareback.

So I'm confused.

I'm also in agreement that today looks better than others but not ideal. I just don't think this rider has quite got the PRE brain (not to be confused with PEA brain :p) dissed yet.

I also think he needs more muscle before he can properly perform as he's being asked to do. It's been said that he is weak behind- that seems to be accepted. What I don't get is that since owner and trainer have that knowledge, why isn't that being worked on instead of these more strenuous movements? Some hill work would be great for that. He could still be schooled in addition, but more basic transitions, simple movements and so forth to get him to engage his back more and build up, rather than jumping into passage.
 
blitznbobs said:
its utter rubbish that a gp horse is too sensitive for anyone to ride. my gp horse was as safe as houses i put complete novices on him but his canter pirouettes were so good that stephen clarke used to borrow him for demos...

it totally depends on the horse - not the training...
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Yes I'm sure any one of us could have a crack at riding one of the top GP horses without any probs - do you think there is a chance of having a go on Valegro? :D
 
helenalbert said:
I may be being dim but I'm a bit confuzzled. In the very first thread in this recent string the comment was, either from Armas or his 'team' (for want of a better word) that this was an incredibly hot horse who is not easy to ride.
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I don't think that Armas himself has ever made that comment. But several others have.
 
blitznbobs said:
its utter rubbish that a gp horse is too sensitive for anyone to ride. my gp horse was as safe as houses i put complete novices on him but his canter pirouettes were so good that stephen clarke used to borrow him for demos...

it totally depends on the horse - not the training...
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Absolutely true. My now retired competition horse, competed at a high level dressage, he turned his hoof to showing aged 13, placed at HOYs two years running along with many county championships. He had more buttons than this computer, but the judges loved him, always commenting on his lightness, balance and willingness.

He was schooled and competed by one rider and adored his rider, but on only one occasion did he object to a hunter ride judge. He must have been ridden by way over 100 hundred different people. He is a beautifully bred Selle Francias and yes he is a sensitive soul and certainly not a mugs ride, but schooling, manners and genuineness ensured his success.

The day it went wrong, at the Hunter Nationals at Addington, a lady ride judge tried to send him out of the line without picking the reins up, he remained stood square waiting for correct instructions, the stupid woman gave him a pony club kick still with no contact, he shot off, tripped up and nearly put her over his head. She grabbed the curb and he took off with her. Off course he was sent out.

Personally, and within reason, I think horses should get used to different riders as part of their education and to give them every chance of being useful in their futures.
 
I wonder if there is a difference between different people riding them and different people trying to improve them though AA?

E's ponderings on a quiet afternoon
Donut anyone? we have spares ;)
 
Another day, another video...same lame, unhappy Armas!
James, I'm not entirely sure what your trying to achieve but this poor horse is bored to tears. Having watched the original video at the beginning of this thread, and the other one posted by Paint Me Proud, it's like watching two different horses. It's sad that he is so blatantly sour and yet you just keep pushing for more more more more.
Get a vet to that hind lameness issue, sack off that bird who's riding him and give him some time off or hack him out for six months. Adorable Alice had it in one.
 
ester said:
I wonder if there is a difference between different people riding them and different people trying to improve them though AA?

E's ponderings on a quiet afternoon
Donut anyone? we have spares ;)
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Good point Ester, as an owner you do need to be able to access what is going on.

I was by far the worst rider my horse ever experienced. I was far too fat, unfit and unbalanced to get a real tune from him. I owned ID's for years before buying him. The ID's always gave me that 'leave it to me mum, I will get you out of this xxx you have put me in' attitude. I realised he needed a decent rider after a funny incident in a novice class a few months after I bought him, He trotted down the long side and hopped over the boards out of the arena. My instructor asked me why I did not ask the horse to turn left. I reasoned I did not need to, my ID knew where he was going and so should the new horse !

I put a dear and very dedicated friend on the horse and we never looked back and I have bought a cob and bred myself another ID, they will make decisions for me and forgive my uselessness.

Donut please.
 
ester said:
I wonder if there is a difference between different people riding them and different people trying to improve them though AA?

E's ponderings on a quiet afternoon
Donut anyone? we have spares ;)
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That's the nub of it only I work to improve my horses or the others will work on things while I am watching .
However I thinks it perfectly possible for different people to work to improve a horse in dressage for example a rider on a yard may have a talent for say teaching the changes then then they may do that with horses ridden more by other people but in that situation it's likely that all the riders will be working along the same lines.
Ps I had better stay off the donuts ATM but thanks.
 
Toast said:
Another day, another video...same lame, unhappy Armas!
James, I'm not entirely sure what your trying to achieve but this poor horse is bored to tears. Having watched the original video at the beginning of this thread, and the other one posted by Paint Me Proud, it's like watching two different horses. It's sad that he is so blatantly sour and yet you just keep pushing for more more more more.
Get a vet to that hind lameness issue, sack off that bird who's riding him and give him some time off or hack him out for six months. Adorable Alice had it in one.
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Thank you - I normally talk total rubbish !
 
AdorableAlice said:
Good point Ester, as an owner you do need to be able to access what is going on.

I was by far the worst rider my horse ever experienced. I was far too fat, unfit and unbalanced to get a real tune from him. I owned ID's for years before buying him. The ID's always gave me that 'leave it to me mum, I will get you out of this xxx you have put me in' attitude. I realised he needed a decent rider after a funny incident in a novice class a few months after I bought him, He trotted down the long side and hopped over the boards out of the arena. My instructor asked me why I did not ask the horse to turn left. I reasoned I did not need to, my ID knew where he was going and so should the new horse !

I put a dear and very dedicated friend on the horse and we never looked back and I have bought a cob and bred myself another ID, they will make decisions for me and forgive my uselessness.

Donut please.
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My OH has a great ID called Fatty not so long ago we put him on my TB because he wanted to feel a TB canter after a few minutes of J trotting up to the walls and stopping I tactfully pointed out that Mr GS needed to steer J round the corners he looked very confused and sai but I never steer Fatty , it must be an ID thing.
 
or is Forest Fox, Farthingwood Fox? *sigh* someone will answer me soo I'm sure.


I don't much care for the riding of this horse but thats by the by really. However, he has lost alot of condition which would worry me.
 
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