Session number 12.....

Armas

Armas

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For those who are interested in following the training progress here is this mornings session. Each session I see some improvements.
Given some of the feedback yesterday you will see that I have asked for the nose band to be removed.

[video=youtube_share;Ra6hJHVC2i8]http://youtu.be/Ra6hJHVC2i8[/video]
 
There are some nice moments of self carriage in this session, and he's starting to look stronger now, particularly in the base of his neck:)
 
I think Armas that your trainer should be paying you for an opportunity to ride a horse who is teaching her so much...

This is the first video you posted with this trainer where I like the logical progression of what she is doing (working on basics: his basic straightness, relaxation, rhythm and lateral & vertical balance of his whole body). It would still not be my chosen type of training method overall but I think your trainer is learning :)
 
Im on my laptop which is pants for watching videos so only got about five mins in before i gave up watching, will watch in full later on my ipad. from the first few minutes you can see a far happier horse. i generally detest flash straps, but to be honest didnt think mentioning it would make a difference, so I didnt, really chuffed to see you have removed it, i really see a happier horse. He is still evading, but not so much, he seems more fluid and bouncy :D and I really liked seeing him stretching out in the begining. Of course, the remaining 25 mins may descend into chaos (I dont know yet) but the first few minutes do not leave me with such an unsettled feeling or even a 'lacklustre' feeling as did the previous session. J, you know Im always going to be of the opinion that I would have gone for the chap, but I am far happier watching the first five mins of this session, than the first five minutes of any of the other sessions of this woman and A.
 
Much better, he looks to me as if he was a little tired today and that has enabled the rider to use her legs to better effect, the lateral work and work on the basics is becoming established, he looks happier, far less tense as if he now understands what is required, the confidence will grow, his self carriage will develop from here.

Saying he looks tired is not a negative, horses that are sharp and over reactive are more rideable when they are waiting rather than running with the choke open constantly, it is a fine line though between having them relaxed and a little tired and overdoing it so they do not want to work.
 
Queenbee said:
Im on my laptop which is pants for watching videos so only got about five mins in before i gave up watching, will watch in full later on my ipad. from the first few minutes you can see a far happier horse. i generally detest flash straps, but to be honest didnt think mentioning it would make a difference, so I didnt, really chuffed to see you have removed it, i really see a happier horse. He is still evading, but not so much, he seems more fluid and bouncy :D and I really liked seeing him stretching out in the begining. Of course, the remaining 25 mins may descend into chaos (I dont know yet) but the first few minutes do not leave me with such an unsettled feeling or even a 'lacklustre' feeling as did the previous session. J, you know Im always going to be of the opinion that I would have gone for the chap, but I am far happier watching the first five mins of this session, than the first five minutes of any of the other sessions of this woman and A.
Click to expand...

I am now awaiting for the verdict on the rest of the session !
 
For the first time I've seen this horse engage its hind legs and sit - the leg yielding is really helping him I just wish shed use the forwardness she gets from this and the self carriage she gains rather than shutting down the front end straight away. At the moment it would be preferable for him to 'poke' a bit rather than over bend as he obviously find so easy.
 
One thing that has really struck me again watching this video in particular is the credit that we have to give Armas. What impresses me the most is not the rider but armas's ability, he may be a tricksy horse and he has brains (thats what makes him tricksy. If we think of where he was initially trained, the style of riding that would have been employed for this training, we think of BB and also the portugese rider, these styles are all very similar, but this riders style as we have already discussed is far more suited to warmbloods, essentially armas has had to learn to carry not just a different rider, but a different 'style' of rider, to interpret that style and the questions asked suddenly today he is looking like he has made a bit of a mental transition in understanding this 'style'.

I remember ebony quite a bit when I watch this, she was hot headed, too bright for her own good, had super wicked evasion tactics, and bleeding sharp, any kind of gadget (grackle, flash, martingale) caused instant outrage from her and her evasion got worse not better, she would rather battle against restraint. Once the issues were resolved and she was going nicely I had a couple of girls that rode her on occasion just because they loved her and the girls had very different riding styles, one rode her and all you could see was the fine tb side of her, the other girl rode her and it was like looking at a pure friesian.

Im not saying that when this trainer rides A he looks like a warmblood, but the different styles are not to be discounted, and perhaps much of the car wreck/awkwardness was because it was so damned hard for him to 'get' this rider because of her style - a style he probably had never encountered before.

With todays session, its instantly clear that losing the restraint has made him for the most part forget to battle. A few things that stick out, some of which are a reiteration of my previous post:

In this session:
He flows through his transitions a lot better, he was much smoother throughout.

He is relaxing and stretching forward into an outline, she is giving him his head to stretch... this is key for his muscle development

He is stepping under behind really nicely in trot, and striding forward much nicer at the front

He is still short behind in canter, but I realise with his medical history this is difficult, I have nothing but good to say about tumeric as a good supplement, general household spice... have a look into it.

At 20.30 I love the canter, there is no tension there, he seems relaxed and is really searching forward.



Because of A, not the rider that would have been my first choice, because of the differing style, I would have wanted to ease the pressure by using someone who was familiar with his style of training and his breed type. Today he has finally 'got' what she is asking him to do, this is a combination of him being relaxed and not fussing about the restraint of the flash which i think has really helped. Without the flash he's able to focus more on her questions. He's finally used that brain to translate what she is saying. Its been a big learning curb for him, he still has a way to go, there are moments when he resists, and he does look pretty darn tired bless him, but 2 main things:

The flash has gone so hes more relaxed, and able to focus, hes less niggly
He's understanding her 'style' and questions/instructions
She has changed her approach somewhat, she is putting less pressure on him and I am finally seeing him be allowed to stretch whilst working

wait, thats three :D but all three are a plus for me.
 
Armas is one of the most genuine horses I've seen for a long time. I do agree with QB that he is now understanding what she is asking of him however I also think this is reciprocal (to a lesser degree) and the rider is starting to 'get' Armas. She's still not the rider I would have on him but she is making efforts to change her style somewhat. She's less domineering with him today and it showed! He responded nicely.
 
twiggy2 said:
he looks so much stronger, more relaxed and accepting.

the surface sounds and looks as if there is very little give in it, is it just a sand surface that has baked hard?
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The surface is watered ever evening however it is rather firm.

Queenbee said:
One thing that has really struck me again watching this video in particular is the credit that we have to give Armas. What impresses me the most is not the rider but armas's ability, he may be a tricksy horse and he has brains (thats what makes him tricksy. If we think of where he was initially trained, the style of riding that would have been employed for this training, we think of BB and also the portugese rider, these styles are all very similar, but this riders style as we have already discussed is far more suited to warmbloods, essentially armas has had to learn to carry not just a different rider, but a different 'style' of rider, to interpret that style and the questions asked suddenly today he is looking like he has made a bit of a mental transition in understanding this 'style'.

I remember ebony quite a bit when I watch this, she was hot headed, too bright for her own good, had super wicked evasion tactics, and bleeding sharp, any kind of gadget (grackle, flash, martingale) caused instant outrage from her and her evasion got worse not better, she would rather battle against restraint. Once the issues were resolved and she was going nicely I had a couple of girls that rode her on occasion just because they loved her and the girls had very different riding styles, one rode her and all you could see was the fine tb side of her, the other girl rode her and it was like looking at a pure friesian.

Im not saying that when this trainer rides A he looks like a warmblood, but the different styles are not to be discounted, and perhaps much of the car wreck/awkwardness was because it was so damned hard for him to 'get' this rider because of her style - a style he probably had never encountered before.

With todays session, its instantly clear that losing the restraint has made him for the most part forget to battle. A few things that stick out, some of which are a reiteration of my previous post:

In this session:
He flows through his transitions a lot better, he was much smoother throughout.

He is relaxing and stretching forward into an outline, she is giving him his head to stretch... this is key for his muscle development

He is stepping under behind really nicely in trot, and striding forward much nicer at the front

He is still short behind in canter, but I realise with his medical history this is difficult, I have nothing but good to say about tumeric as a good supplement, general household spice... have a look into it.

At 20.30 I love the canter, there is no tension there, he seems relaxed and is really searching forward.



Because of A, not the rider that would have been my first choice, because of the differing style, I would have wanted to ease the pressure by using someone who was familiar with his style of training and his breed type. Today he has finally 'got' what she is asking him to do, this is a combination of him being relaxed and not fussing about the restraint of the flash which i think has really helped. Without the flash he's able to focus more on her questions. He's finally used that brain to translate what she is saying. Its been a big learning curb for him, he still has a way to go, there are moments when he resists, and he does look pretty darn tired bless him, but 2 main things:

The flash has gone so hes more relaxed, and able to focus, hes less niggly
He's understanding her 'style' and questions/instructions
She has changed her approach somewhat, she is putting less pressure on him and I am finally seeing him be allowed to stretch whilst working

wait, thats three :D but all three are a plus for me.
Click to expand...

My my my I am lost for words :p

Spring Feather said:
Armas is one of the most genuine horses I've seen for a long time. I do agree with QB that he is now understanding what she is asking of him however I also think this is reciprocal (to a lesser degree) and the rider is starting to 'get' Armas. She's still not the rider I would have on him but she is making efforts to change her style somewhat. She's less domineering with him today and it showed! He responded nicely.
Click to expand...

Armas is a very genuine horse he is very smart and picks things up extremely quickly. The rider is adapting to him as much as he is to her. The next progression will be to ask Armas for an extended trot an canter.
 
I have that effect on men :p

Ive never said she isnt 'a good rider' or that she wouldn't get results, Id sincerely have loved to see the other chap on session 12... I think we would all have been blown away by the partnership. I still dont get that spine tingle that I felt when watching those two and I wouldnt have gone for a rider that essentially spoke in a totally foreign language to Armas. but todays session is a vast improvement and I completely agree, she seems to 'get' him more. However, I will say, (and I think someone said this a few threads back) some of these improvements I am sure are because of things you have discussed on here and trickled back to the trainer in requests, such as slowing the tempo down, binning the flash etc. Without your input and watchful eye, I doubt that he would be quite so far forward as he is now as I suspect the trainer would not have tempered her approach without your input.

Edited to say this reads like a right downer... its not meant to!
 
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I still think this horse is being ridden very downhill (and he's a PRE FFS) but he seems to have figured out the trainer and isn't so flustered by her. So hopefully they will make progress.
 
Had sort of decided not to continue posting on these threads (although still watching the videos with great interest ;)) as I sort of feel like I'm wittering away to myself most of the time now but had to say I think this was a really good progression from yesterday. I really think he went well today as he was taking her along with him more fluently. Yesterday I said I thought it looked like the handbrake was on, today they both let it off again :)

I don't know if the flash made a difference tbh so much - yesterday was definitely lacking in power and energy, looked flat and his canter transitions were almost travelling backwards;) but sounded more like she was deliberately taking the pressure off in that respect, so that was the trade off while putting the foundations in for today's session. Today she asked him to really work imo and I think he could possibly have gone just as well with the flash, who knows. I don't use one myself so no need for anyone to leap on that comment, I'm just saying it's not comparing like with like :)
 
She is riding him differently and so he goes like a different horse. It's magic! ;) Much more comfortable to view, but still a work in progress obviously. Out this side by side with the first couple of vids and you should be able to see what got people's backs up James. She was very hard on him.
 
milliepops said:
Had sort of decided not to continue posting on these threads (although still watching the videos with great interest ;)) as I sort of feel like I'm wittering away to myself most of the time now but had to say I think this was a really good progression from yesterday. I really think he went well today as he was taking her along with him more fluently. Yesterday I said I thought it looked like the handbrake was on, today they both let it off again :)

I don't know if the flash made a difference tbh so much - yesterday was definitely lacking in power and energy, looked flat and his canter transitions were almost travelling backwards;) but sounded more like she was deliberately taking the pressure off in that respect, so that was the trade off while putting the foundations in for today's session. Today she asked him to really work imo and I think he could possibly have gone just as well with the flash, who knows. I don't use one myself so no need for anyone to leap on that comment, I'm just saying it's not comparing like with like :)
Click to expand...

What rubbish you don't witter on. Far better to comment constructively and partake as your views are interesting.
Can I ask do you compete ?

Billie1007 said:
She is riding him differently and so he goes like a different horse. It's magic! ;) Much more comfortable to view, but still a work in progress obviously. Out this side by side with the first couple of vids and you should be able to see what got people's backs up James. She was very hard on him.
Click to expand...

She was not so much hard on him but strict in what she wanted. She is working out what she can compromise on and what she needs to stick to her guns on. It's not that easy to get on a strange horse and get a tune straight away! But I am glad to see you are warming to her :D
 
Armas said:
What rubbish you don't witter on. Far better to comment constructively and partake as your views are interesting.
Can I ask do you compete ?
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OK, shall keep brave pants on and continue :eek3:

Yes, I do compete although not often as I have to hire a horsebox so it's a bit costly! Next outing not until 9th Aug but that's a lesson, not a show :smile3: then probably off to do Area Festivals in Sept and Oct.
 
You must be spending an absolute fortune on paying someone to ride your horse every day! Do you ever ride him yourself? Does he ever do anything different than schiooling? I.e a nice relaxing hack?
 
benson21 said:
You must be spending an absolute fortune on paying someone to ride your horse every day! Do you ever ride him yourself? Does he ever do anything different than schiooling? I.e a nice relaxing hack?
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I don't pay some one to ride my boy, I pay some one to help with the training 5 days a week 4 days ridden work 1 days long reining. The cost of keeping and training a horse in France is far less than the UK.
I hack him out my self every week. Sunday we are going on an all day organised ride.
He jumps as well, although that is on hold at the moment. As for cost its not an issue for me. I don't drink smoke nor do I drive a flash car my vice is my horse.
 
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