Shannon Matthews alive

[YorksG]

How does it make a difference to a child of nine going home from school and being abducted, how many partners her mother has had. letting a child of 9 walk home from school on her own is nowhere near as irresponsible as the parents who left three under 4's in a hotel room while they went out for a meal, but of course they were middle class 'nice' people, who were married to each other and had no children from previous marriages. I didn't see any one suggesting that Madeline McCann would not want to go home.

 

[itsme123]

so you have to be over 35 to be a decent mother with morals?? What a ridiculous idea!!!

Just because a mother has children by different fathers and doesnt shop in laura ashley doesnt make her a bad mother. Granted, allowing a 9 year old child to walk home alone from school in an area like that is, IMO unacceptable, and verging on neglect, but do remember that many children from deprived or what you might deem as morally wrong backgrounds grow into perfectly 'normal' members of society.

Maybe in your day single mums had their babies whipped away from them in shame, but times have changed, and both un married mothers and mothers under the age of 35 are actually socially acceptable

.

I do know of someone who refused to allow their 12 year old to wear makeup, only to find the child went to school, got changed and slepped makeup on for the day, and removed it before coming home.
allow a child to make well informed choices and they will grow into responsible young adults. Clamp down on them and they will have no respect for their fuddy duddy parents.

 

[YorksG]

The mother has children at the Infant school and the Junior school, the schools are about a mile apart, she therefore ensured that she collected the younger children from school. There are a number of children on the estate who walk home from the junior school together, so are usually reasonably safe. The choice to collect the younger children is surely the more responsible, the parents on that estate have to walk their children to school as most do not have access to private transport.

 

[alleycat]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope the above hasn;t offended anyone, but more given them a wake up call that kids are trying to act far above their years, and above morals that the majority of us mere 35+ - 40+ parents would like to call acceptable.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a rather more than 35+- 40+ parent (and ex-child; remember?

) I think this is the whole nature & essence of growing up; and the parental rant against it sounds awfully familiar; and would probably sound familiar to my great-great granny, etc. etc..

Its a difficult balancing act; trying to protect a child at the same time as letting it develop and grow up; and I don't think its really anything to do with what make up they wear or whether they have boyfriends. Its about independance, confidence & self esteem.

As for the iresponsibility of walking to school; a 9 year old? I was walking to school (in the outskirts of London) as a 6 year old; as all kids did in those (not quite Victorian) days. I thought kids were being encouraged to return to this, on heath grounds?

Would also add, I wonder how we would feel, following the trauma of losing a child, to have our private lives pawed over by every parenting guru on the internet. I doubt that any of us is so blameless in our personal lives that a juicy moral couldn't be drawn from our distress.

 

[goeslikestink]

the most important thing is shes safe

tend to agree with allycat as i to am an older londoner

they do say its nearly always some one you know or know off
and i know only to well the implications of when a child has been lets say hurt by others as my sister son was got at by a peadefile
of whome she had no idea lived on the floor beneath her

set her son back many years he was nie then now at 14 and with the help of his family and her new husband has turned out to be a nice young man

but those early years were awful, its not something that just effects the child or the imedate family it effects the aunts the cousins the schools and later his own education or later still is he capaberable of getting a job holding his own to become a decent human being

when people take away the innocense of a child forwhat ever reasons they really havent got a clue of how that effects there whole way of life and how they then look at things and also the people around them

people have strange reactions to a vitimalso my sister suffered spitting and all kinds of stuff from neighbours on the same estate
she stood her ground and ignored them but how does one tell a child that becuase you were caught by a P,, you get the rough stuff to and are classed as dirty etc when in truth your not

all he was doing at that time was playing with his toys outside her front door on the landing-- was she not looking after him
or not caring for him-- her door was open and he was playing cars with another child right outside her door


so yeah i hve strong views both as a mother and as a person from outside looking in--

we can all say if only's or was it this or that and yeah i would nt have let my child walk home on there own at that age unless
they was in a group and agroup known to stay together and
my sister wouldnt either

its not wether you allow your child to wear ear rings and bling and make up

its how you bring them up wether you have been taught the values of good and bad and know whats wrong some people dont know good from bad ie brought up in a place of say drinking , drugs and violence its becomes second nature to them as they think thats the way to behave in society as they have not been taught or shown any better

i am glad shes safe but i dont know if the mums envolved or not
if it was a stunt or not
all i know is its not easy when things happen and you have no control over
all you can do is be there for the persons or persons envloved and help pick up the peices so they may have some sort of order and decent quality of there time whilse they still here

and just to remind you when a child has suspected of xyz boys or girls they get tested for it - just another ordeal they children have to go through which i can assure you isnt nice

who do i feel for the child------ i honestly thought she was dead
now all we can do is hope she has a decent life and pull herself together to become the perosn she going to be as her innocent childhood has been riped from her at 9

9 her mum is going to need all the help she can get-- from
encoragement via neighbours not vitimise her or her child
as some will

i hope shannon you can get over your ordeal dont balme yourself or harm yourself be brave and strong and be the person you are - a lovely little girl with your whole life in front of you

good luck and god bless you xx

 

[itsme123]

I'd also like to add (was late last night) that not one of us is perfect and even older parents from well off backgrounds make mistakes (McCanns? ). Sometimes those mistakes end with a child getting a scraped knee, and we kick ourselves and learn from it. For some the outcome is far worse, and the parent will spend the rest of their life paying for that mistake.

Thank God, in this instance that the child has been found safe and well. My thoughts and prayers are with this family and hope that someday they can put this behind them.

 

[carthorse]

I am reserving judgment on this case ,it may be complicated , I just hope her life will work out ok and that her family will think about what has happened

 

[michellepearson1]

Its good news that Shannon is alive but very strange she is now in the care of the Local Authority under an Emergency Protection Order.

As a Child Protection Social Worker myself - something aint right in the family home for the courts to grant that!!

 

[Stella]

My impression is that the Emergency Protection Order is the result of the mother being vulnerable and not having the emotional resources to protect the child. At the time she went missing, the Police highlighted that Shannon told a school friend that she didn't want to go home. There is a stepfather and according the the papers, he beats the mother. Given that the Man who had Shannon is a relative of the stepfather ('known to the Police' uses more than one name etc). The powers that be would be likely to want to see a strong, independant minded, resourceful mother in order to feel happy for her to return home. 7 children by 5 or 6 men and living with a violent man, suggests mum is a psychologically vulnerable person who needs help herself

 

[YorksG]

Such speculation from a Child protection Social Worker is unhelpful and against the spirit of our code of practice.

 

[michellepearson1]

An Emergency Protection Order is made when a child/ren are at risk of significant harm and that harm could be a number of things.

No doubt the powers that be will ensure that all the family are supported and any decisions that are made will be in the best interest of the child/ren.

Im sorry that people see that as speculation and has upset you.

 

[YorksG]

The part that was speculation was about problems in the family. Of course this child is at risk at the moment, her circumstances are after all somewhat unusual. I was just surprised that a fellow professional would speculate about the reason for THIS epo on a forum such as this.

 

[itsme123]

QR.

If the abducter was indeed a member of the family then this alone would be enough to allow SS to place an order on the child.

This is often a formality to protect the family. It just means SS either take the child into temporary care to assess the child's mental wellbeing (and the accusations of violence at home could mean SS have had no choice but to take the child into care for now), or keep an extra close eye on them.

Quite often when a family member has been accused of or sentenced because of a violent offence the children in that family will immediately be put on the 'at risk' register. SS do this simply to ensure the child is happy at home, and that the child is not at risk. They are non evasive and often a child being under their watch allows the family help with getting back on their feet that would not otherwise be available to them.

 

[Stella]

True, but in the circumstances, mother and child would not be housed separately unless there were concerns that the mother may not (for whatever reason) protect her. For instance, could you see the child of a loving middle class family not going home when found?

 

[YorksG]

The mother was not necessarily housed seperately from the child last night, at least I saw nothing that said she was.

 

[xxxtinkerbellxxx]

Ok, as I worked in ss for many years, within child protection I will tell you what I know and the situation as I understand it, although you must understand I am not privvy to the finer details of this case.
An emerg protect order has been made so that ss can make further enquiries as to the safety of Shannon within her own home.
This is not really standard proceedure and I can only summise that there is more going on or has gone on than has meet our eyes within her family unit. Bless the little lamb. xxx tinkerbellxxx

 

[itsme123]

yes, a 9 year old child was abducted by a family member.... that is what has gone on, along with rumours of beatings at home... if SS suspect that a family member has been violent towards a child then it is pretty standard procedure to remove the child from that environment. the mother may well have stayed with the child, but under the eye of SS.

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, a 9 year old child was abducted by a family member.... that is what has gone on, along with rumours of beatings at home... if SS suspect that a family member has been violent towards a child then it is pretty standard procedure to remove the child from that environment. the mother may well have stayed with the child, but under the eye of SS.

[/ QUOTE ]

and we all know the short comings of Social Services don't we.......

 

[Stella]

She is tonight, she has jut been filmed at home. Like you though, I'm reluctant to speculate any further on a public forum.

 

[YorksG]

Do we? Care to expand?

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
Do we? Care to expand?

[/ QUOTE ]

from maria colwell....

to victoria climbie.....

i'm sure you are familiar with Prof, N. Parton's paper????


and all the others who have been let down by the "system".......

same sh1t, different day...always the kids who suffer from the incompetence of those assigned to protect them.....

 

[YorksG]

What about all those protected by the system? The media always like to critisize the professions, and in social work it's damned if you do (child snatchers for no reason) and damned if you don't (something should have been done). I am (fortunately!) not a child care social worker, I am a psychiatric social worker, we don't get a much better press and I would ask those who comment with only knowledge from the media to ask to spend some time shadowing those who do the job befor you rush to judgement.
The children actually suffer from those who harm them.

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
What about all those protected by the system? The media always like to critisize the professions, and in social work it's damned if you do (child snatchers for no reason) and damned if you don't (something should have been done). I am (fortunately!) not a child care social worker, I am a psychiatric social worker, we don't get a much better press and I would ask those who comment with only knowledge from the media to ask to spend some time shadowing those who do the job befor you rush to judgement.
The children actually suffer from those who harm them.

[/ QUOTE ]

if hands are so tied...then what is the point of "social workers"?

and who's to say i'm only commenting from "knowledge from the media"???



even from a Sun Readers point of view, which TBH isnt vast, it hasnt got that much better over the last 35yrs, has it???

 

[itsme123]

every profession has it's bad and good sides. Some social workers are asses, some live for their job and devote themselves to it.

If we all believed what we read in the papers then all horse dealers would be cruel sods who ripped people off.

 

[YorksG]

No one said hands were tied, and if this is from a sun readers point of view then I think that says all that needs to be said, don't you? Hardly an in depth perspective after all.

 

[Stella]

Its a 'pay peanuts, get monkeys' situation IMO. At the risk of causing a flurry of outrage - I find (from a related profession) that social Workers are poorly trained, with poor CPD and poorly paid. So the brightest and the best leave and become Child Welfare officers for the courts, advance up the management structure in social Services or retrain as something else.

In addition to being poorly trained, poorly paid and frequently poorly managed, they are usually desparately understaffed. They don't stand a chance of being consistently competent. It will take the goverment to actually give a damn about effective child protection and be prepared to provide a realistic budget for it, before things will improve.

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
every profession has it's bad and good sides. Some social workers are asses, some live for their job and devote themselves to it.

If we all believed what we read in the papers then all horse dealers would be cruel sods who ripped people off.

[/ QUOTE ]

i personally dont believe jack-sh1t of what may or may not be reported in the press...

what my point was, is NOTHING has improved for these kids AT ALL in 35 yrs..

the people EMPLOYED at some considerable expense, paid for by the average tax-payer in this country, should be acountable for these so called dissadvantaged kids....

am i wrong in saying Social Workers are there for the well-being of their clients????
am i wrong to assume that that Shannon's "family" are known to Social Servces?
am i wrong in assuming that this family is on the "at risk" register?


probably not.....................................

 

[Stella]

Maybe not, but you are wrong in saying that they are employed at some considerable expense!

 

[itsme123]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a 'pay peanuts, get monkeys' situation IMO. At the risk of causing a flurry of outrage - I find (from a related profession) that social Workers are poorly trained, with poor CPD and poorly paid. So the brightest and the best leave and become Child Welfare officers for the courts, advance up the management structure in social Services or retrain as something else.

In addition to being poorly trained, poorly paid and frequently poorly managed, they are usually desparately understaffed. They don't stand a chance of being consistently competent. It will take the goverment to actually give a damn about effective child protection and be prepared to provide a realistic budget for it, before things will improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

here here

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe not, but you are wrong in saying that they are employed at some considerable expense!

[/ QUOTE ]

they certainly are if collectively they continue to get bad results.........

good job they aren't on piecework..