Share/Loan Contract - WWYD

sasquatch

sasquatch

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So I have found two lovely young sharers for my boy.
They're both good friends, and would normally be down with him together when they are sharing or a parent would be down with them.
Parents aren't horsey, but would want to watch if they were riding without the other girl being there (perfectly understandable, they are 13/14 year old girls)

Riding wise, one is much more suited to him than the other. But the other one also gets him working a lot nicer! So between them, I think they'll manage alright with him.
I've been really impressed with them both so far, they're nearly ready to take over completely and other liveries have been introduced and said they can give a hand.
Mum has seen them both ride and when they're with him too - she is concerned the more nervous rider may have problems. She was with them yesterday and the more nervous rider came off twice - she got back on both times, and the other girl said she would get on if he was being a bit silly and funnily enough once she had got on he stopped messing around.

They're a bit slow and gentle in some ways, with grooming and mucking out especially, but they've only helped out in riding schools and never had a share before - so the more they do the quicker they will get. He's an exceptionally quiet horse in the stable, so I'm not concerned about that at all.

I was originally going to ask for a small contribution, however both girls would like him short term at first (which suits me as I'm overcoming glandular fever) and money may be an issue for them both. One is traveling quite far, and both are doing me a favour in that he's coming back into work so needs a lot of flatwork and schooling - which is all these two are really after, a horse to give a lot of TLC to and to get some more experience and to get to do some more riding.

I'm not a BHS member, however my mother is a lawyer. She's drafted a contract, however it's very formal and contains more information than necessary. They're covered on my insurance as they have my permission to ride, however I'd like to get that in writing just incase!

The issue I'm having is who would sign the contract, both their parents aren't horsey but as they're under 18 I would like parents to sign - but I also feel the girls should be involved in the contract too. Would it be reasonable to sit down with parents and girls to read through it, and make sure we all understand and any issues can be changed, or for me to just send them home with a copy?

As it is the girls who would be doing the riding and the chores, I really feel they should be involved. I have met their dads who confessed they're not horsey, but know one end of a horse from the other and asked very normal parent questions on safety, rules etc. and left the girls to ask horsey questions.

I have never got this far with a part-loan before, as my last one just wasn't suited, and I am only just 19 so a little unsure of how this works!

I'm really happy for the loan to go ahead as long as all parties are happy - YO is aware I have 2 sharers for him, and that it will most likely only be for september/october/november. Riding wise I am really happy, he doesn't need someone spectacular to come and school him and improve him atm, he just needs someone to get him back into work and doing the very basics with him to get him fit again which these two are very capable of doing.

Long post, so my apologies, but any advice on how to proceed much appreciated!
 
My understanding is that as minors they can't be involved in signing legal things so it's really the parents who your contract is with and the parents who are ultimately responsible for your horses care and ensuring the girls follow safety guidelines. So, the parents would sign the contract but have the girls at the meeting where you go through it to ensure everything is understood so they feel involved. As for the contract, if there's more information than necessary in there, cut the unnecessary bits out. But ask your mum first in case there's some reason why those parts are necessary. TBH most sharer agreements are a lot less formal than the approach you're taking and whilst I'm not suggesting your approach is wrong I do think you need to relax a bit and not over think things.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
My understanding is that as minors they can't be involved in signing legal things so it's really the parents who your contract is with and the parents who are ultimately responsible for your horses care and ensuring the girls follow safety guidelines. So, the parents would sign the contract but have the girls at the meeting where you go through it to ensure everything is understood so they feel involved. As for the contract, if there's more information than necessary in there, cut the unnecessary bits out. But ask your mum first in case there's some reason why those parts are necessary. TBH most sharer agreements are a lot less formal than the approach you're taking and whilst I'm not suggesting your approach is wrong I do think you need to relax a bit and not over think things.
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I just want something signed so insurance can't turn round and question the verbal agreement, and that parents and girls are aware accidents can happen with horses and have agreed to follow yard rules etc (I had to sign a livery contract when I arrived on the yard - so something to make sure they've read and understand yard rules and any extra rules I set down seems reasonable)

My main concern is their age, I can understand mum is looking at it from a lawyer/parent point of view but there is no need to put in things like 'B can be very strong and unpredictable, so blah blah must be done to make sure blah blah doesn't happen, B can be greedy when he eats, so blah blah must be done' etc when a simple 'Horses are unpredictable, so any injuries/damage that occurs to horse, rider or property must be informed straight away' would cover it.

A lot of the things she has put in the contract are things I've already told them regarding behaviour, tack, if he's hurt etc, I'm just not sure how to write it.
 
Under 18s can't be held to a contract if they sign it, so you need to get the parents to sign. I agree, I wouldn't put in lots of detail because if you state that your horse can do x in certain circumstances and he does it, you could be held liable because you knew before you allowed the girls to share him.

In my contract I have put something along the lines of "Sharer must handle the horse in a safe manner at all times and ensure the safety of any people she allows to approach the horse". By getting the parents to sign you make them responsible for the girls' behaviour and hopefully that will ensure a certain level of supervision.

The only things I've been really specific about are things that are for the welfare of my horse. So for example that only my tack can be used, feet must be picked out before and after riding, nobody may ride the horse except my sharer etc.
 
Get a copy to both sets of parents, have them read through with their girls and contact you with any questions / changes etc. If everyone is happy have everyone sign the contract.

Get a BHS template loan contract here (link on the right of the page in "Downlad"): http://www.bhs.org.uk/welfare-and-care/buying-and-loaning-horses and adjust to suit you e.g changing the word loan to share throughout etc. It covers everything basic you will need and you have room to add anything extra you want.
 
sasquatch said:
I just want something signed so insurance can't turn round and question the verbal agreement, and that parents and girls are aware accidents can happen with horses and have agreed to follow yard rules etc (I had to sign a livery contract when I arrived on the yard - so something to make sure they've read and understand yard rules and any extra rules I set down seems reasonable)

My main concern is their age, I can understand mum is looking at it from a lawyer/parent point of view but there is no need to put in things like 'B can be very strong and unpredictable, so blah blah must be done to make sure blah blah doesn't happen, B can be greedy when he eats, so blah blah must be done' etc when a simple 'Horses are unpredictable, so any injuries/damage that occurs to horse, rider or property must be informed straight away' would cover it.

A lot of the things she has put in the contract are things I've already told them regarding behaviour, tack, if he's hurt etc, I'm just not sure how to write it.
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Admittedly ours is loan not share but we used a standard BHS loan agreement which if they don't do a share could probably be adapted. Regarding liability then I would suggest you state any known issues and any advice you have given to mitigate and I would also suggest that you insist they take out personal accident insurance. Your insurance may cover them for 3rd party liability but it might not cover for life long care for them etc if something appalling happened.

Generally the courts are more inclined to look favourably on an open and honest contract than they are on one that was entered into with material facts being hidden from one of the parties. For example we stated that ours was generally good to box, catch, shoe and vice free etc save as set out in attached schedule. In the schedule we said he had previously been awkward to load in trailer but was currently OK, that he had reared whilst hunting and could spin as an evasion if not wanting to go forward. We excluded hunting as an activity (without express written permission) as we did not feel that he was safe as a hunting pony although we would be open to discussing it if the occasion arose.

The best thing is to sit down with parents and sharers and explain that horse riding carries risks and that it is best for you all that something is written down so that you all know where you stand and what is expected. It is far better to sort this out up front, get them both to sign the contract.
 
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The bhs draft contract is available for anybody I think, regardless of your BHS membership status. It's probably on their website, or give them a call and get them to email it to you.

Are they as riders insured for if something happens to a third party when they're on him? That's why a lot of people loaning or sharing horses out ask the rider to get BHS membership, for the 3rd party liability insurance.


I think overall you will just need to be mindful that at 13 and 14 years old, they will make silly mistakes as they learn and get their confidence and get a bit overconfident or cocky at times... It's probably most about putting into place things to minimise the risk of something awful happening, like making sure they are never with him on their own, or that if they go for a hack they wear high vis, carry a mobile phone and inform somebody at the yard of the route they will take and what time they will be back.
 
sasquatch said:
My main concern is their age, I can understand mum is looking at it from a lawyer/parent point of view but there is no need to put in things like 'B can be very strong and unpredictable, so blah blah must be done to make sure blah blah doesn't happen, B can be greedy when he eats, so blah blah must be done' etc when a simple 'Horses are unpredictable, so any injuries/damage that occurs to horse, rider or property must be informed straight away' would cover it.
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I don't really have an opinion on what you should do, but this bit I've quoted, you and your mum aren't writing the same thing. Hers says "do ABC so that XYZ doesn't happen" ie an instruction as a preventative measure. Yours says "horses bring a risk of trouble, let me know if something bad happens" ie a general warning and an instruction to let you know. I think your mum is trying to make sure you're covered if they try to blame you for something specific that you already knew the horse does. You can't sign away any liability you might have in law (I don't know that you have any liability) with words like "you're doing it at your own risk" or similar.

ETA: The stress of it all and the thought of something going wrong is why I can't have sharers!
 
regarding the contract your mum will have seen situations where contracts have failed through grey areas and will only be trying to do her best to ensure this doesn't happen to you, its her job to see loopholes
 
I'm a lawyer, a parent and an adult (obviously!) who has child sharers for a PC pony.

I do keep the contract relatively basic. Partly because that is what I need the contract for but also because with horses you simply can't be as prescriptive as good contract law would allow you to be. It isn't a piece of machinery to say things like "When oil runs out top up..." type of thing. I insist on rider insurance and that an adult is present to supervise on every occasion. I also expressly exclude other riders above those notified as I have found kids tend to bring their school friends if we're not careful. Specify what chores, what days. That they must take reasonable care with all tack, feed and equipment, including not wasting feed / bedding. That they are liable to replace anything damaged if negligent.

And you do have to get the parents to sign - a minor can't be bound to a contract - and nor would you be taking them to court (or indeed they you) if it went wrong.
 
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