Share your seller red flags!

[SilverLinings]

I wouldn't assume that 'bombproof', 'quiet' or 'safe allrounder' are dodgy phrases, but I would tell the seller beforehand that you will expect to see proof of that at the viewing. I have one horse who I can't think of anything negative to say about; his height, colour, sex or breed might deter some people but his behaviour is so impeccable that I would be happy to ride him literally anywhere, and do anything with him handling-wise.

If the horse does something odd/naughty/dangerous at the viewing and the seller says "he's/she's never done that before" then I would continue with the viewing if I felt safe, but if the horse went on to give the seller reason to use that phrase a second time then I would think it was likely it had been mis-described in the advert.

 

[nutjob]

I wouldn't assume that 'bombproof', 'quiet' or 'safe allrounder' are dodgy phrases,

There was one today on dodgy dealers, which I think has now been removed, where the seller was asked what they meant by almost bombproof and they replied that if a bomb went off very close to the horse they weren't confident he would survive .

 

[SilverLinings]

There was one today on dodgy dealers, which I think has now been removed, where the seller was asked what they meant by almost bombproof and they replied that if a bomb went off very close to the horse they weren't confident he would survive .

I actually think mine would be ok, and then wander over to investigate the crater- he is weird He is gun-proof, crow-scarer-proof and enjoys watching fireworks and popping balloons so I would be surprised if a bomb caused issues. He wouldn't survive two minutes in the wild as he's be the one wandering over to check out the lion, and not running away from the erupting volcano etc

 

[Cloball]

Not me but I went to see a horse who had been owned 5 years or so I think but had come over from Ireland with a brand new passport to be bought by quite novicey people, I'd have eaten my hat if that horse was 12 (as advertised) looked at least 20. Pretty sure the seller had been had very sweet horse though if I had land and money she would have come home. I still worry about her.

 

[AthenesOwl]

I've been seeking advice both online and offline from various professionals and judging by the amount of warning and cautionary tales I've been given one would think how does anyone ever get to buy one !!!

Same! I'm prepared for it to be a long search, but it really does seem impossible!

 

[I'm Dun]

I actually think mine would be ok, and then wander over to investigate the crater- he is weird He is gun-proof, crow-scarer-proof and enjoys watching fireworks and popping balloons so I would be surprised if a bomb caused issues. He wouldn't survive two minutes in the wild as he's be the one wandering over to check out the lion, and not running away from the erupting volcano etc

I've got one of those. He would absolutely want to know what the bomb was, if it had any food, etc and he would supervise the aftermath. I had a herd of llamas gallop over making weird noises and chase us down the fence line and he didn't even look up, I nearly had heart failure. I don't think anything bothers him. The one time he did spook it was dramatic and dangerous and he was in pain and had to be semi retired. I knew as soon as he did it that something was seriously wrong

He can also be a complete prat to handle and is a quirky old sod, but you could hack him down the M1 in a headcollar having never ridden before and you'd be ok.

 

[SilverLinings]

I've got one of those. He would absolutely want to know what the bomb was, if it had any food, etc and he would supervise the aftermath. I had a herd of llamas gallop over making weird noises and chase us down the fence line and he didn't even look up, I nearly had heart failure. I don't think anything bothers him. The one time he did spook it was dramatic and dangerous and he was in pain and had to be semi retired. I knew as soon as he did it that something was seriously wrong

He can also be a complete prat to handle and is a quirky old sod, but you could hack him down the M1 in a headcollar having never ridden before and you'd be ok.

They are curious creatures, I think mother nature got muddled up and gave them a labrador (or similar) brain rather than a horse one

 

[Lois Lame]

I actually think mine would be ok, and then wander over to investigate the crater- he is weird He is gun-proof, crow-scarer-proof and enjoys watching fireworks and popping balloons so I would be surprised if a bomb caused issues. He wouldn't survive two minutes in the wild as he's be the one wandering over to check out the lion, and not running away from the erupting volcano etc

He's my sort of horse.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I remember going with a friend as a second opinion on a first pony she was looking at for her daughter. It was at a RS and we saw it tacked up by young children who were not exactly skilful. Pony stood like a saint and was a calm little soul to ride. Friend bought her and the only thing that wasn't as stated in the advert was her age. She came with her papers, registered Section A which showed she wasn't 12 but mid teens and very well bred. Super pony. That was how a viewing should go, what we saw was what we got.

 

[NotInTheKnow]

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[NotInTheKnow]

I remember going with a friend as a second opinion on a first pony she was looking at for her daughter. It was at a RS and we saw it tacked up by young children who were not exactly skilful. Pony stood like a saint and was a calm little soul to ride. Friend bought her and the only thing that wasn't as stated in the advert was her age. She came with her papers, registered Section A which showed she wasn't 12 but mid teens and very well bred. Super pony. That was how a viewing should go, what we saw was what we got.

Just curious…what did your friend do once she found out the age advertised was incorrect? Did your friend take this up with seller? If so, what was the response?

In my experience from my original post of being lied to, I didn’t bother to confront the seller about it. Just took it as a clear sign that they are not to be trusted so I walked. If seller can fib about something seemingly so benign and what was really just a passing comment (I wasn’t really probing!) then they could potentially be capable of lying about other things.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Just curious…what did your friend do once she found out the age advertised was incorrect? Did your friend take this up with seller? If so, what was the response?

In my experience from my original post of being lied to, I didn’t bother to confront the seller about it. Just took it as a clear sign that they are not to be trusted so I walked. If seller can fib about something seemingly so benign and what was really just a passing comment (I wasn’t really probing!) then they could potentially be capable of lying about other things.

She didn't bother, pony was perfect in every other way and for a first ridden worth her weight in gold.

 

[Caol Ila]

"He has mild sweet itch."

It was a PRE with no mane at all, and it was February. I'm not going to call that 'mild' sweet itch.

Accompanied a pal to view a horse at a dealer's yard, and the dealer rabbitted on and on to my pal about how the horse was owned by mates of hers, how it had been on the local BS circuit, how it wasn't imported from Ireland, yadda yadda. I said, "If he's from a local, could my friend get in contact with the owner and learn more about him?" The dealer looked horrified and said. "What are you going to ask me for next? A pint of blood?"

I knew someone who was very involved in the local BSJA scene at the time. I asked her if she'd seen the horse around (she hadn't) and to look up his passport name on the database. No horse of that name registered with BSJA.

My friend did not buy that horse.

 

[EventingMum]

I went to see a potential riding school pony advertised as having very mild, easily controlled sweetitch. When we arrived he had huge red raw, rubbed patches all over his body, the sellers explanation was that their friend had added tumeric to his feed and he must be allergic to it. The other weird thing there was there were hundreds of teabags lying in the field, they told me it was to kill ragwort - I certainly hadn't heard that one before!

The witholding water is an age old trick used to calm horses. The other thing that seems to be on the rise is dealers offering horses for sale then when things go wrong claiming they were selling on behalf of the owner so you have no come back on them.

 

[Birker2020]

Ask to see the horse tacked up, watch carefully when the tack comes towards it and when the girth is tightened.

Check the seller has not taken water out of the horses field/stable as dehydration makes a horse sleepy.

Check the horses stable for signs of crib biting/windsurfing and check it doesn't weave.

Film the rider riding the horse and have a conversation with the seller, asking each question, does the horse load, does it buck, does it rear etc. You then have evidence on tape.

Drape a jacket over a pole, on the floor randomly or on the side of a fence and watch the horses reaction to it.

Make sure you have the horse vetted, although in my situation it was pointless doing so, as it later transpired that the horse should never have passed the vetting in the first place.

And when the horse acts like a rodeo horse and they say "ooh he's never done that before" take it all with a pinch of salt! I do love the face I'm pulling on the last photo!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Don't buy a horse in November and find out its a headshaker in April!!

^^^ Ditto with sweet itch; very easy to disguise this in the winter months and then come Spring you realise what you've bought. Naughty.

 

[spacefaer]

Check the horses stable for signs of crib biting/windsurfing and check it doesn't weave.

I want to see a horse windsurfing
I think I'd buy it!

 

[Caol Ila]

I want to see a horse windsurfing
I think I'd buy it!

If it can kayak or paddleboard, I'll have it.

 

[Birker2020]

I want to see a horse windsurfing
I think I'd buy it!

Ha predictive text !!

 

[cold_feet]

following on from never vet a badly shod horse, I always now ask to see trot up on hard surface at viewing. Saved myself a vetting fee by do that.

 

[Goldie's mum]

I enquired about a highland gelding that was a 'perfect children's pony' etc etc.
At the last minute before setting off to view I saw a really small show report that seemed to list a foal that had 'my' gelding as sire. I discovered he had been a working stallion until 12 years old. I went back to re-read the advert & there was some very odd wording about being peaceful to turnout "with our small herd" .
I've added "when was he castrated" to my very long list of questions. There are people who are hoping you wont ask certain things but wouldn't actually lie in response to a direct question, especially if it's in writing (email) .

 

[ycbm]

following on from never vet a badly shod horse, I always now ask to see trot up on hard surface at viewing. Saved myself a vetting fee by do that.

Shall we do a quick ” how to trot up" tutorial?


On flat concrete or tarmac.

Have the horse walked directly away from you, turned and walked directly back at you.

You are hoping to see only the back legs as it goes away, with the front legs hidden by the back ones. It might be OK to see the front ones outside the back ones but if the front ones are inside that suggests hind leg issues or spectacularly weak chest. You don't want to see any legs swinging in or out and you want to see the feet landing on the floor outside the centre line of the horse's body, not swinging in under the centre. Listen carefully to the noise, you want to hear 4 completely even beats. 1.2.3.4.1.2.3...... A horse which is bilaterally lame in front but looks sound will often go 1.2....3.4....1.2.....3.4..... Watch for missteps on the turn or the handler doing an excessively large turn.

Ask for the walk to be repeated until you're happy you've seen and heard it all.

Repeat in trot. You want the same things with the legs, with a clear two beat rhythm. But this time look also at the hip points. A horse which is lame behind but looks sound will often carry or drop the point of the hip on one side lower than the other. Then look at the head. A nod downwards is usually lame on the leg hitting the ground as the head dips. A nod upwards is usually lame on the hind leg hitting the ground as the head rises. A tail held always to one side often indicates a problem.


I hope that helps save a few more wasted vettings.

Anyone want to add anything?

 

[cold_feet]

Shall we do a quick ” how to trot up" tutorial?


On flat concrete or tarmac.

Have the horse walked directly away from you, turned and walked directly back at you.

You are hoping to see only the back legs, with the front legs hidden by the back ones. It might be OK to see the front ones outside the back ones but if the front ones are inside that suggests hind leg issues or spectacularly weak chest. You don't want to see any legs swinging in or out and you want to see the feet landing on the floor outside the centre line of the horse's body, not swinging in under the centre. Listen carefully to the noise, you want to hear 4 completely even beats. 1.3.3.4.1.2.3...... A horse which is bilaterally lame in front but looks sound will often go 1.2....3.4....1.2.....3.4..... Watch for missteps on the turn or the handler doing an excessively large turn.

Ask for the walk to be repeated until you're happy you've seen and heard it all.

Repeat in trot. You want the same things with the legs, with a clear two beat rhythm. But this time look also at the hip points. A horse which is lame behind but looks sound will often carry or drop the point of the hip on one side lower than the other. Then look at the head. A nod downwards is usually lame on the leg hitting the ground as the head dips. A nod upwards is usually lame on the hind leg hitting the ground as the head rises. A tail held always to one side often indicates a problem.


I hope that helps save a few more wasted vettings.

Anyone want to add anything?

Brilliant, thank you! And always have a second pair of eyes.

 

[nutjob]

Anyone want to add anything?

I like to watch from the side also to see if the horse steps shorter with one leg than the other. Your comment about listening to the beats is very apt, interestingly if you ask for a video of the horse trotting up before embarking on a 6 hour round trip the seller will often dub over the sound of the hooves with music . Same goes for ridden videos, more useful to hear if the horse is making a noise, but almost always sound tracked by irrelevant tunes.

 

[ycbm]

I like to watch from the side also to see if the horse steps shorter with one leg than the other. Your comment about listening to the beats is very apt, interestingly if you ask for a video of the horse trotting up before embarking on a 6 hour round trip the seller will often dub over the sound of the hooves with music . Same goes for ridden videos, more useful to hear if the horse is making a noise, but almost always sound tracked by irrelevant tunes.

I completely agree, I tend to do that when the demo rider is on board.
.

 

[Sleighfarer]

If they tell you the horse has won anything, check that it actually has. An acquaintance of mine looked up the record of a horse she went to see and discovered that the first place the owner had told her about at a certain event was nothing of the sort. When this was put to the seller, she got huffy and said he would have won if he hadn't had a couple of fences down. Well, yes. Priceless.

 

[ycbm]

If they tell you the horse has won anything, check that it actually has. An acquaintance of mine looked up the record of a horse she went to see and discovered that the first place the owner had told her about at a certain event was nothing of the sort. When this was put to the seller, she got huffy and said he would have won if he hadn't had a couple of fences down. Well, yes. Priceless.

I've seen a horse described as coming third in a competition. There were 3 entries
.

 

[NotInTheKnow]

Shall we do a quick ” how to trot up" tutorial?


On flat concrete or tarmac.

Have the horse walked directly away from you, turned and walked directly back at you.

You are hoping to see only the back legs, with the front legs hidden by the back ones. It might be OK to see the front ones outside the back ones but if the front ones are inside that suggests hind leg issues or spectacularly weak chest. You don't want to see any legs swinging in or out and you want to see the feet landing on the floor outside the centre line of the horse's body, not swinging in under the centre. Listen carefully to the noise, you want to hear 4 completely even beats. 1.3.3.4.1.2.3...... A horse which is bilaterally lame in front but looks sound will often go 1.2....3.4....1.2.....3.4..... Watch for missteps on the turn or the handler doing an excessively large turn.

Ask for the walk to be repeated until you're happy you've seen and heard it all.

Repeat in trot. You want the same things with the legs, with a clear two beat rhythm. But this time look also at the hip points. A horse which is lame behind but looks sound will often carry or drop the point of the hip on one side lower than the other. Then look at the head. A nod downwards is usually lame on the leg hitting the ground as the head dips. A nod upwards is usually lame on the hind leg hitting the ground as the head rises. A tail held always to one side often indicates a problem.


I hope that helps save a few more wasted vettings.

Anyone want to add anything?

Thank you for this!

 

[NotInTheKnow]

I like to watch from the side also to see if the horse steps shorter with one leg than the other. Your comment about listening to the beats is very apt, interestingly if you ask for a video of the horse trotting up before embarking on a 6 hour round trip the seller will often dub over the sound of the hooves with music . Same goes for ridden videos, more useful to hear if the horse is making a noise, but almost always sound tracked by irrelevant tunes.

This! Super thanks

 

[NotInTheKnow]

If they tell you the horse has won anything, check that it actually has. An acquaintance of mine looked up the record of a horse she went to see and discovered that the first place the owner had told her about at a certain event was nothing of the sort. When this was put to the seller, she got huffy and said he would have won if he hadn't had a couple of fences down. Well, yes. Priceless.

Beggars belief for anyone to lie on record about something verifiable !!