Amelia
Well-Known Member
Anyone going to the AES Stallion Grading on Friday ??
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
SHB (GB v AES
- Thread starter DanielleP
- Start date
Anyone going to the AES Stallion Grading on Friday ??
joeathh
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. Mares are the foundation and breeders are going nowhere if they do not have good mares. This is where most breeders make their mistake -- selection of mares for their breeding program.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry am a lurker on here but want to post a question on this subject. I have attended several stallion gradings to spectate and typically 30 - 50% grade but I can't find the figures for mare grading. The only one I did find was SHB in 2005 where 130 mares approx put forward, only 1 failed (99.2% grading pass rate).
If the mare is as important, why are the gradings not as demanding? Yes I know one stallion will cover many mares but if the studbooks are happy to accept lower quality mares for breeding (I can't believe we can produce perfect fillies but not perfect colts, so some must be of lower quality) Then why can't they accept 'lower quality stallions' in a book but marked to be seen that they are in a lower rank? The breeders have an informed choice. Sorry waffling now...
Absolutely. Mares are the foundation and breeders are going nowhere if they do not have good mares. This is where most breeders make their mistake -- selection of mares for their breeding program.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry am a lurker on here but want to post a question on this subject. I have attended several stallion gradings to spectate and typically 30 - 50% grade but I can't find the figures for mare grading. The only one I did find was SHB in 2005 where 130 mares approx put forward, only 1 failed (99.2% grading pass rate).
If the mare is as important, why are the gradings not as demanding? Yes I know one stallion will cover many mares but if the studbooks are happy to accept lower quality mares for breeding (I can't believe we can produce perfect fillies but not perfect colts, so some must be of lower quality) Then why can't they accept 'lower quality stallions' in a book but marked to be seen that they are in a lower rank? The breeders have an informed choice. Sorry waffling now...
Ciss
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry am a lurker on here but want to post a question on this subject. I have attended several stallion gradings to spectate and typically 30 - 50% grade but I can't find the figures for mare grading. The only one I did find was SHB in 2005 where 130 mares approx put forward, only 1 failed (99.2% grading pass rate).
[/ QUOTE ]
Forget any statistics that you turn up about stallion gradings in the UK as they are wildly unrepresentative of what happens elsewher (and what should happen here) becuase:
1 Many of the stallions forward are overstamps from other gradings abroad so the fail rate is unusually low
2 The number of colts born in this country is nowhere near enough to allow a pre-inspection of 700 colts which is then cut down to ca 100 going forward for inspection proper, with about 25 - 30 passing and only ca 15 of them passing the performance test at the end, let alone having sufficiently high personal and progeny competition results to remain an approved stallion when fully mature (say 9 - 12 years old)
3 The parallel ranking for mares is head studbook, PrStPr and Keur Pref (I think) etc and in most studbooks of all the mares forward for grading each year only about 5% achieve this level, which is approx equal to the percentage of colts getting through to the performance test. Many of these mothers are also tested under saddle and some studbooks (eg Hann Verband and Dansk Varmblod) limit the colts eligible for stallion grading to those out of these highly graded dams. However, there is a huge market for talented riding /competition horses of both sexes that might just have a gap in their pedigree in the 3rd or 4th generation or a minor conformation fault and the majority of these (plus a signifianct number of ex-or failed stallions that have fallen by the way side during the grading process) are the animals that give the top class results in sport that the studbooks so desire.
IOW, breeding a horse of stallion quality is a means to an end and the end is producing a further generation of top class sports horses, many of whom have dams from the next studbook down (Main, Haupt etc) who may well have competed themselves and retired sound so are none the worse for that.
[ QUOTE ]
If the mare is as important, why are the gradings not as demanding? Yes I know one stallion will cover many mares but if the studbooks are happy to accept lower quality mares for breeding (I can't believe we can produce perfect fillies but not perfect colts, so some must be of lower quality)
[/ QUOTE ]
Oddly enough (as many experienced breeders will tell you) perhaps due to the power of mitochondrial DNA, it is far easier to produce a consistently very high class mare line than it is to produce a colt that is of as high a quality as his full siters. Its one of the great paradoxes of planned breeding and why many studs are so happy to have a good number of fillies each year (ie it keeps the quality up).
[ QUOTE ]
Then why can't they accept 'lower quality stallions' in a book but marked to be seen that they are in a lower rank? The breeders have an informed choice. Sorry waffling now...
[/ QUOTE ]
Some do, especially those that have grading system in which the stallions go up the grades as they (and their progeny) prove their usefullness in sport, but in the UK the levels of this system are often sadly misrepresented by unscruplous stallion pwners who wish to have their stallions appear to be more highly graded than they are. This is really difficult to control (certainly the studbooks concerned have little effect in doing so) and even when Trading Standards Officers are brought in to investigate very obvious misuses of the system, they usually find it inpossible to take any action becuase the terms used are so open to different interpretation <sigh>
HTH
Sorry am a lurker on here but want to post a question on this subject. I have attended several stallion gradings to spectate and typically 30 - 50% grade but I can't find the figures for mare grading. The only one I did find was SHB in 2005 where 130 mares approx put forward, only 1 failed (99.2% grading pass rate).
[/ QUOTE ]
Forget any statistics that you turn up about stallion gradings in the UK as they are wildly unrepresentative of what happens elsewher (and what should happen here) becuase:
1 Many of the stallions forward are overstamps from other gradings abroad so the fail rate is unusually low
2 The number of colts born in this country is nowhere near enough to allow a pre-inspection of 700 colts which is then cut down to ca 100 going forward for inspection proper, with about 25 - 30 passing and only ca 15 of them passing the performance test at the end, let alone having sufficiently high personal and progeny competition results to remain an approved stallion when fully mature (say 9 - 12 years old)
3 The parallel ranking for mares is head studbook, PrStPr and Keur Pref (I think) etc and in most studbooks of all the mares forward for grading each year only about 5% achieve this level, which is approx equal to the percentage of colts getting through to the performance test. Many of these mothers are also tested under saddle and some studbooks (eg Hann Verband and Dansk Varmblod) limit the colts eligible for stallion grading to those out of these highly graded dams. However, there is a huge market for talented riding /competition horses of both sexes that might just have a gap in their pedigree in the 3rd or 4th generation or a minor conformation fault and the majority of these (plus a signifianct number of ex-or failed stallions that have fallen by the way side during the grading process) are the animals that give the top class results in sport that the studbooks so desire.
IOW, breeding a horse of stallion quality is a means to an end and the end is producing a further generation of top class sports horses, many of whom have dams from the next studbook down (Main, Haupt etc) who may well have competed themselves and retired sound so are none the worse for that.
[ QUOTE ]
If the mare is as important, why are the gradings not as demanding? Yes I know one stallion will cover many mares but if the studbooks are happy to accept lower quality mares for breeding (I can't believe we can produce perfect fillies but not perfect colts, so some must be of lower quality)
[/ QUOTE ]
Oddly enough (as many experienced breeders will tell you) perhaps due to the power of mitochondrial DNA, it is far easier to produce a consistently very high class mare line than it is to produce a colt that is of as high a quality as his full siters. Its one of the great paradoxes of planned breeding and why many studs are so happy to have a good number of fillies each year (ie it keeps the quality up).
[ QUOTE ]
Then why can't they accept 'lower quality stallions' in a book but marked to be seen that they are in a lower rank? The breeders have an informed choice. Sorry waffling now...
[/ QUOTE ]
Some do, especially those that have grading system in which the stallions go up the grades as they (and their progeny) prove their usefullness in sport, but in the UK the levels of this system are often sadly misrepresented by unscruplous stallion pwners who wish to have their stallions appear to be more highly graded than they are. This is really difficult to control (certainly the studbooks concerned have little effect in doing so) and even when Trading Standards Officers are brought in to investigate very obvious misuses of the system, they usually find it inpossible to take any action becuase the terms used are so open to different interpretation <sigh>
HTH