Sheep worrying

[Moobli]

Lockdown has made quiet, remote places much busier with weekend (and week!) walkers and so I guess it was only a matter of time before we had sheep worried. At the weekend a woman with two GWPs let them loose to run around the moors and they attacked and killed one of our ewes The owner was collared, was apologetic and has paid for the cost of the sheep. I, probably better than most, understand accidents happen but up to now we have been lucky in that sheep worrying incidents are very rare but as more and more people venture out into the countryside I wonder if it will become much more common.

 

[Cortez]

That's not a "like" on your post Moobli, but yes, I expect that with more "town" dogs and people out and about it is quite likely.

 

[Bellasophia]

How awful..I’m glad you caught the culprit..people can be so stupid..
Over here we have quite a lot of sheep but they are as big as Shetland ponies( slight Exaggeration)..but the shepherd stays with them,plus usually two or three very tough dogs( maremanna,bergamo)
my farmer friend has a ram he keeps in with his young sheep that he says will kill a dog..
...here is a park we use sometimes,in the suburbs,
..the sheep have been brought down from the mountain and we coexist..the sheep dogs rule the flock and even fence less,the sheep are respected,as we stick to the paths with our dogs on lead.

 

[palo1]

So sorry Moobli. That is awful; understandable that accidents happen in that situation but still upsetting. I have to say that having had a very unreliable dog in the past that the most important thing for me these days is a suitably stock proofed dog. We have sheep here and all of our neighbours have stock too; life just wouldn't work with that sort of trouble!! I am pretty tolerant of other training 'deficits' but sheep or cattle worrying is an absolute no-no. Having said that, the number of people that I have seen watching and hopelessly calling their dogs running stock (sheep, ponies and cattle) on the hill is quite astounding and utterly infuriating. It is also frustrating and upsetting how many people think that it is 'just a sheep' . I imagine it is worse than ever at the moment too and with so many people acquiring dogs over lockdown and having to enjoy the UK countryside I can't see it improving. It is at times like this that you think that licensing and regulation of dog ownership would be a good thing. I suppose at least you caught the offender and have had some financial compensation but it's pretty sad all the same.

 

[Moobli]

How awful..I’m glad you caught the culprit..people can be so stupid..
Over here we have quite a lot of sheep but they are as big as Shetland ponies( slight Exaggeration)..but the shepherd stays with them,plus usually two or three very tough dogs( maremanna,bergamo)
my farmer friend has a ram he keeps in with his young sheep that he says will kill a dog..
...here is a park we use sometimes,in the suburbs,
..the sheep have been brought down from the mountain and we coexist..the sheep dogs rule the flock and even fence less,the sheep are respected,as we stick to the paths with our dogs on lead.View attachment 57808View attachment 57809View attachment 57811

Lovely photos Bellasophia and it is always interesting to see how different countries and cultures coexist with livestock, predators etc. I am often asked about the use of livestock guardian dogs in Scotland but it would need a whole cultural shift for the majority of the UK population to accept that sheep are important enough to have large, aggressive dogs roaming freely around the countryside. One of the (many) reasons I can't see the UK ever reintroducing wolves or other apex predators either.

 

[Moobli]

So sorry Moobli. That is awful; understandable that accidents happen in that situation but still upsetting. I have to say that having had a very unreliable dog in the past that the most important thing for me these days is a suitably stock proofed dog. We have sheep here and all of our neighbours have stock too; life just wouldn't work with that sort of trouble!! I am pretty tolerant of other training 'deficits' but sheep or cattle worrying is an absolute no-no. Having said that, the number of people that I have seen watching and hopelessly calling their dogs running stock (sheep, ponies and cattle) on the hill is quite astounding and utterly infuriating. It is also frustrating and upsetting how many people think that it is 'just a sheep' . I imagine it is worse than ever at the moment too and with so many people acquiring dogs over lockdown and having to enjoy the UK countryside I can't see it improving. It is at times like this that you think that licensing and regulation of dog ownership would be a good thing. I suppose at least you caught the offender and have had some financial compensation but it's pretty sad all the same.

Yes it will be interesting (soul-destroying?!) to see the fallout in all areas from the popularity of buying pups during lockdown.
I have been on the other side with a sheep worrying dog many years ago and she came to a sticky end and it is not something I would wish on any dog owner so do try to bear that in mind when I see cases of livestock being chased or worse. But when I come across owners who really couldn't give a toss their pooch is "just playing" with sheep (and it really does happen!) then it makes my blood boil.
I don't know if licensing would help the matter or not because as usual the responsible, law abiding dog owner would comply and the rest wouldn't.

 

[Bellasophia]

moobli you might be interested in this site( in Italian) which has a list, on the right ,of Italian breeds of sheep..the pics are interesting as they also show the environments they live in.
https://www.agraria.org/ovini/fabrianese.htm

the sheepdogs are generally really well trained..they stay with their flock and only react if a dog gets too close..the shepherd usually has a small caravan ,a few donkeys,A cow or two and maybe a horse ..they spend most of the year in the mountains( we are in the north,in the foothills of the alps.,which you can see on the horizon in my pic.)..but come down to lamb .

 

[PurBee]

I understand some sheep farmers have turned to llama’s as protection of the flock? How effective they are im unsure, but they seem to be gaining in popularity.

 

[Moobli]

moobli you might be interested in this site( in Italian) which has a list, on the right ,of Italian breeds of sheep..the pics are interesting as they also show the environments they live in.
https://www.agraria.org/ovini/fabrianese.htm

the sheepdogs are generally really well trained..they stay with their flock and only react if a dog gets too close..the shepherd usually has a small caravan ,a few donkeys,A cow or two and maybe a horse ..they spend most of the year in the mountains( we are in the north,in the foothills of the alps.,which you can see on the horizon in my pic.)..but come down to lamb .

Thank you, I will enjoy looking through that site. I had a friend who lived in the Abruzzo National Park (or just on the edge) and she and her dogs had many scary run ins with packs of Maremmas who were left to guard the flocks with no human shepherd. I also have a friend who shepherds in the French Alps and she lives out with her flock in the mountains in the summer.

 

[Moobli]

I understand some sheep farmers have turned to llama’s as protection of the flock? How effective they are im unsure, but they seem to be gaining in popularity.

I think llamas or alpacas might work in certain situations and to chase off foxes or smaller dogs, but have read horror stories of larger dogs attacking and killing them as well as sheep. Our sheep graze hill and moorland often without fences over 15,000 acres so just not possible to use dogs, llamas etc.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Here in the Midlands there have been reports of several dog attacks and sheep killed. Ok here as yet but always a worry with a footpath through our field.

 

[blackcob]

I made the mistake of walking via a National Trust route at the weekend and it was heaving - forgot it was half term here - where I saw a family who managed to keep their dog on the lead but for some reason saw fit to lift their multiple small children over a locked gate to let them chase and scream at the lovely Hebridean sheep. Before anyone points it out, yes there was no physical harm done by this unlike a dog but it just demonstrates for me the degree of entitlement some people have when using the countryside.

My vote is for an evil dog-hating shetland, as ours handily and repeatedly saw off the neighbour's sheepdog the other day. The dog was there legitimately and it was all very embarassing. ?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think llamas or alpacas might work in certain situations and to chase off foxes or smaller dogs, but have read horror stories of larger dogs attacking and killing them as well as sheep. Our sheep graze hill and moorland often without fences over 15,000 acres so just not possible to use dogs, llamas etc.

.

Alpacas 'viciously attacked' by hunt hounds http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-46650980

 

[Moobli]

Here in the Midlands there have been reports of several dog attacks and sheep killed. Ok here as yet but always a worry with a footpath through our field.

Sadly it does seem to happen regularly all over the country

 

[Moobli]

I made the mistake of walking via a National Trust route at the weekend and it was heaving - forgot it was half term here - where I saw a family who managed to keep their dog on the lead but for some reason saw fit to lift their multiple small children over a locked gate to let them chase and scream at the lovely Hebridean sheep. Before anyone points it out, yes there was no physical harm done by this unlike a dog but it just demonstrates for me the degree of entitlement some people have when using the countryside.

My vote is for an evil dog-hating shetland, as ours handily and repeatedly saw off the neighbour's sheepdog the other day. The dog was there legitimately and it was all very embarassing. ?

To allow kids to do that is completely out of order and would have annoyed me as much as a dog running loose. What is wrong with some people!

Haha the evil dog-hating Shetland sounds a character! I have a similar one.

 

[TheresaW]

The thing I don’t get is that we all know farmers are within their rights to shoot a dog that is worrying sheep. I couldn’t ever live with myself if one of mine got shot over something I could have avoided.
Sorry about your ewe Moobli.

 

[Moobli]

The thing I don’t get is that we all know farmers are within their rights to shoot a dog that is worrying sheep. I couldn’t ever live with myself if one of mine got shot over something I could have avoided.
Sorry about your ewe Moobli.

It is hard to bear.
Thanks re: the ewe.

 

[palo1]

The thing I don’t get is that we all know farmers are within their rights to shoot a dog that is worrying sheep. I couldn’t ever live with myself if one of mine got shot over something I could have avoided.
Sorry about your ewe Moobli.

Quite!! I know my neighbours really well, my dog is totally steady with sheep as I have made him so but if I am walking with the dog across my neighbour's land, the dog is on a lead. It's just not difficult and I want my neighbours to know and to see that if there is a problem it isn't my dog causing it. If you have a pet dog why on earth would you risk it's life gambling on a farmer's discretion/sympathy???

 

[Clodagh]

I'm so sorry about your ewe, Moobli. I hope it was quick.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

The poor ewe. ? I would have gone crazy at the owner. What did they say? What absolute idiots.

 

[vallin]

Genuine question (as someone with a dog that would chase sheep/pheasant/deer/boar given half the chance), how many dogs that chase actually attack? Don't get me wrong, chasing is just as dangerous especially if they are pregnant, but I keep seeing pictures of sheep being actually attacked and I can 100% say Daisy is only in it for the chase so I'm slightly curious as to what separates chasers from attackers.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Our neighbour lost a duck and had some more injured by a loose dog a couple of weeks ago. There is a footpath across neighbour's land with signage about keeping dogs on leads but some stupid woman walking a relative's (?) dog , had it off the laed on the admittedly quiet road and let it jump over the wall to attack the ducks. Tbf she did own up and sent the dog's owner to pay the bills but when neighbour pointed out that she had a couple of young sheep in a pen, that could also have been injured, all dog owner could say was; 'Oh I don't think he would have hurt them'. One can only assume that no-one thought he would hurt the ducks either! Idiots!

 

[Clodagh]

Our neighbour lost a duck and had some more injured by a loose dog a couple of weeks ago. There is a footpath across neighbour's land with signage about keeping dogs on leads but some stupid woman king a relative's (?) dog , had it off the lad on the admittedly quiet road and let it jump over the wall to attack the ducks. Tbf she did own up and sent the dog's owner to pay the bills but when neighbour pointed out that she had a couple of young sheep in a pen, that could also have been injured, all dog owner could say was; 'Oh I don't think he would have hurt them'. One can only assume that no-one thought he would hurt the ducks either! Idiots!

You can't educate stupid.

 

[BBP]

I almost think it’s a good thing that my dog has bad recall. I train and train and train, probably more than many on here, but he still isn’t great. But at least that means that I am never tempted to trust him. I never think he will be okay, or assume he’s steady round livestock, or think he would never chase. So he is always always on lead unless in a controlled area. It feels really hard when I see other people’s dogs having a lovely time off lead, and I feel sad for him sometimes that he lacks that. But he has a 20m longline for when we have space for it, he has an owner willing (not always able) to run to let him get extra speed or distance, he gets to go to a dog field once every week or two (and I hope to fence my own) and I never have to fear him going after something in a fit of madness because I always have hold of him. My biggest fear is if he broke away from me somehow and chased something he shouldn’t.

I’m really sorry about your sheep.

 

[Moobli]

.

Alpacas 'viciously attacked' by hunt hounds http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-46650980

So sad ?

 

[Moobli]

I'm so sorry about your ewe, Moobli. I hope it was quick.

I won’t share the photos but she had her throat ripped out and the keeper had to finish her off ?

 

[Moobli]

The poor ewe. ? I would have gone crazy at the owner. What did they say? What absolute idiots.

It was the keeper who caught them. I think they were very apologetic.

 

[Moobli]

Genuine question (as someone with a dog that would chase sheep/pheasant/deer/boar given half the chance), how many dogs that chase actually attack? Don't get me wrong, chasing is just as dangerous especially if they are pregnant, but I keep seeing pictures of sheep being actually attacked and I can 100% say Daisy is only in it for the chase so I'm slightly curious as to what separates chasers from attackers.

I wouldn’t like to say but I do think there’s a difference between the pleasure chaser and the dog intent on killing. The difference can sometimes just be opportunity though.

 

[Moobli]

I almost think it’s a good thing that my dog has bad recall. I train and train and train, probably more than many on here, but he still isn’t great. But at least that means that I am never tempted to trust him. I never think he will be okay, or assume he’s steady round livestock, or think he would never chase. So he is always always on lead unless in a controlled area. It feels really hard when I see other people’s dogs having a lovely time off lead, and I feel sad for him sometimes that he lacks that. But he has a 20m longline for when we have space for it, he has an owner willing (not always able) to run to let him get extra speed or distance, he gets to go to a dog field once every week or two (and I hope to fence my own) and I never have to fear him going after something in a fit of madness because I always have hold of him. My biggest fear is if he broke away from me somehow and chased something he shouldn’t.

I’m really sorry about your sheep.

I know what you mean. My 2 year old dog is very steady around livestock and I trust him most of the time not to chase deer, hares etc. My 1 year old bitch is a totally different story - very high prey drive, wants to chase anything furry or feathered that moves and totally untrustworthy at this stage. I incorporate non chase training into every day activities at the moment without any huge improvements as yet. I’m hoping eventually I’ll be able to trust her in the forest etc but for now if there are sheep or the chance of deer, hares, rabbits then she’s on a harness and bungee line.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Genuine question (as someone with a dog that would chase sheep/pheasant/deer/boar given half the chance), how many dogs that chase actually attack? Don't get me wrong, chasing is just as dangerous especially if they are pregnant, but I keep seeing pictures of sheep being actually attacked and I can 100% say Daisy is only in it for the chase so I'm slightly curious as to what separates chasers from attackers.

Drive/minerals/instinct.