Shivering weight off

[scats]

I rug accordingly but not excessively. I have two good doers, a sports horse and a Welsh part bred. The sports horse remained unclipped in winter and unrugged, except for a few days with snow or gale force winds and rain, then she wore a lightweight.
The part bred was fully clipped and wore a 100g. In Feb/March, I start to reduce and remove rugs. By the end of March, the fully clipped was naked (with some hair growth, last clip end of December).

I don’t like the term ‘shivering weight off’. One of mine came in from a storm last week shivering and I felt dreadful. I allow them to use their own energy and resources to help keep themselves warm, but not to the extent that they are shaking with cold.

 

[milliepops]

horses don't have to be freezing cold to be shivering though.

I would guarantee that at some point this spring my oldies have shivered a bit when they've had a soaking at temps around 5-8 degrees.
They have shelter, man made and natural, which they choose not to use half the time.
They aren't freezing, they are well and healthy, and well covered . When you think about shivering it's easy to think that these are horses that are cold in sub zero temps or howling gales which would be a different story.
I made the mistake of rugging one earlier this year... a couple of hours later she was baking hot underneath because the ambient temp wasn't actually that cold.

FWIW I'm not advocating leaving them to shiver all the time, just that it's not THAT terrible if they do occasionally. We all shiver from time to time

 

[Nasicus]

I think 'shivering the weight off' is quicker to say than 'letting the horse use it's own fat reserves to keep warm'.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Ours are out 24/7 atm, still on the winter field, which doesn't have much shelter from the east wind. They had plenty of hay overnight, I took some more at about 9.00 am and some more at 11, they are wet and miserable, telling me they want to come in but they both feel warm to touch behind their elbows, so they are staying out. The rain seems to have eased somewhat, I have some shopping to do and am going for lunch with a friend but I might bring them in for a couple of hours this afternoon, if the rain gets heavier.

 

[KautoStar1]

the other thing is, I dont think the modern owner recognises fat. When we consider our own expanding waist lines and think nothing of it, why would we think anything of our own fat horses. Fat seems to be the norm these days.
I have also noticed that fat horses tend to be owned by fat people.

 

[scats]

horses don't have to be freezing cold to be shivering though.

I would guarantee that at some point this spring my oldies have shivered a bit when they've had a soaking at temps around 5-8 degrees.
They have shelter, man made and natural, which they choose not to use half the time.
They aren't freezing, they are well and healthy, and well covered . When you think about shivering it's easy to think that these are horses that are cold in sub zero temps or howling gales which would be a different story.
I made the mistake of rugging one earlier this year... a couple of hours later she was baking hot underneath because the ambient temp wasn't actually that cold.

FWIW I'm not advocating leaving them to shiver all the time, just that it's not THAT terrible if they do occasionally. We all shiver from time to time

Oh absolutely, but I know my horses well and when Polly is shivering to the extent she was, it means she is really bloody cold. She was actually pawing the ground and getting down she was so distressed, although that is her answer to everything to be fair!

 

[Bernster]

I'm another that prefers my horses (if they are on the rounder side) to be slightly cooler than warmer. I think there is a danger of anthromo-wotsit here, and applying the same thinking to horses as we do to ourselves.

To Kauto's point, I'm far better at managing my own horse's weight than I am my own! He's looking pretty good for his type and has lost a bit of weight lately to the point where the yard and the physio have both said he's just at the right weight now (finally!). Sadly, I can't say the same.

 

[ester]

Same Bernster!

I think we did also discover that it was tricky to go from the mindset of clipping and rugging (for 13 years) to not clipping and not rugging unless wet this year, it needed a bit more of a mind shift than I think we expected.

 

[milliepops]

Oh absolutely, but I know my horses well and when Polly is shivering to the extent she was, it means she is really bloody cold. She was actually pawing the ground and getting down she was so distressed, although that is her answer to everything to be fair!

Sorry, it was supposed to be quoting windandrain

 

[milliepops]

Same Bernster!

I think we did also discover that it was tricky to go from the mindset of clipping and rugging (for 13 years) to not clipping and not rugging unless wet this year, it needed a bit more of a mind shift than I think we expected.

Tis weird. Until January I could only see to my oldies once a day -if that, some days I had to rely on OH entirely. That made it MUCH easier for me to adjust, because I couldn't be faffing about with rugs twice a day and had to trust nature to do the job for me.

Last year they were a bit soft having been turfed out mid-winter so I did rug them. I found it a great liberation not having to think about it this year

 

[windand rain]

Rugs back on today the wet ones were cold the dry ones not so back on they went. Hay given as extra for warmth they are exposed to a biting east wind today ambient temp is 7 windchill about 3. I honestly cannot see the point in feeding hay to keep them warm when you are trying to get them to lose weight but hey ho each to their own. By the way mine don't need to lose weight they need now to be allowed to maintain it as it is now and perhaps gain a bit before winter Ribs are easily felt and seen on turning

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I'm another who jokingly uses the term but I don't expect him to shiver. I mean when out in the field he can stay unrugged regardless of temperature because he is a slightly overweight native who is young and healthy. If he needs to stay warm he can eat or move, by doing both he increases his metabolic rate and doesn't store energy as fat, whilst also burning some energy due to the lower quality of grass in winter (in theory).

He is given a rug in winter when stabled because I'm preventing him from managing his own temperature through movement. In this case I have restricted his options so take responsibility for helping him manage the conditions I've given. The rule is he can have a 200g stable rug if in and the temperature drops below -5. The first night the temperature went as low as -6 and didn't go above -4 so he was allowed to wear his pyjamas. The next morning the staff reported he was looking a little warm and uncomfortable! He wore his rug on two more occasions before it got cleaned and packed away for another year.

He's never worn his turnout rug and it still has the labels. He hates getting wet ears but I'm yet to find a headcollar with built in umbrella (that doesn't terrify him)

 

[scats]

There were two coloured cobs locally last year that were being kept in quite an unusual place, but were in good condition, had plenty of shelter (in a woodland) and were being seen to a couple of times a day. They were on a road that lead to a motorway so lots of people passed them everyday and it wasn’t long before a post appeared on Facebook from a non-equestrian stating how cold they must be because they didn’t have ‘coats on’. A few horsey people kindly explained that they had their own natural coats and they had plenty of food and shelter but people really struggled to understand, which I suppose is only natural when people don’t know and are concerned for a horses welfare.

It does amaze me how many experienced horse people will leave horses sweltering in thick rugs. I used to be stabled by someone who regularly called me cruel - in a jokey way- when I turned my horses out naked in rain (in summer, I might add) while hers were bundled in rugs at the slightest mention of rain. It takes all sorts I suppose, but I’d definitely rather them a bit chilly than a bit too warm. At least if they are chilly, they can move around to get warm. Being too hot and not being able to remove a rug to cool down must be awful.

 

[milliepops]

It does amaze me how many experienced horse people will leave horses sweltering in thick rugs. I used to be stabled by someone who regularly called me cruel - in a jokey way- when I turned my horses out naked in rain (in summer, I might add) while hers were bundled in rugs at the slightest mention of rain. It takes all sorts I suppose, but I’d definitely rather them a bit chilly than a bit too warm. At least if they are chilly, they can move around to get warm. Being too hot and not being able to remove a rug to cool down must be awful.

I think some horses are either better able to tolerate it or just more stoical about it when they are rugged inappropriately.

Kira is the most demonstrative I've ever owned (about everything - she wears her heart on her sleeve, emblazoned with neon lights!) and she just absolutely can't stand being remotely too hot or too cold, her behaviour goes to pot and she won't eat anything. Salty is on the same regime as her in terms of management, location of stables etc and she is much much more tolerant. It would be quite easy to overdo her rugging without really noticing if she didn't get to the point of sweating.

 

[scats]

Kira sounds a bit like Polly. If she’s too hot she throws herself on the ground, same if she’s too cold... or upset in anyway... or in season...

Although she’s actually the easier of my two temperament wise, she’s just ridiculously sensitive.

 

[Bartleby.]

I think there is a danger of anthromo-wotsit here, and applying the same thinking to horses as we do to ourselves.

It works between people too, farm owner who checks mine in the morning for me is very slight and does not do well in even the slightest of cool temperatures, while I go about in a jumper most of the time, especially if I'm moving. This could lead to differences of opinion over rugging, but luckily she is sensible and has seen they're not shivering. She's now seen what good doers they are, and that we need all the help in winter that we can get!

Last yard owner could not be reasoned with, but then all her fat rugged ponies on completely bare paddocks with no forage for 12 hours a day made no sense to me either, so I guess she thought I was stubborn to her "I've been doing this for 30 years" way of thinking.