Shock as VOSA changes its mind on horsebox regulations

I don't believe it will slaughter the horse injury, imo most people who work full time have non hgv lorries.
Not sure how it applies to professionals though, as they are always working?
 
I've got an HGV and work full time, given the severe clamp down on 7.5t lorry weights a lot of people have been forced to upgrade to HGV's.
 
well if the pro's are clever they should be able to get round it even especially if they have a groom with an HGV license because FOR EXAMPLE if they catch William Fox Pitt driving his trck with Fox Pitt eventing all over the side of it well they would first have to prove he hadnt had the required days off. As long as he wasnt on the tacho's everytime it was driven he should be fine cos he is the employer and can take time off when he likes. much more likely to get fined for his employee Jackie driving cos everyone knows she never takes a day off!! seriously most grooms work a six day week so regardless of wheter they have driven the truck or not to be within the law for a start they would probably need to work 5 days one week and six the next.
it should be pretty easy for the police but i am not going to say how on here and give them ideas! anyone who wants to know what i think they will do can PM me! and the rise of the freelance HGV driver with all the relevant competency certificates might have begun. the cost of them will be a lot less than the fine for non compliance.
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Hence why the article says amateur riders.

I'm fairly sure they won't require ideas from anyone on how to police it, they manage to screw HGV drivers to the wall pretty well on their own.
 
i really hate it when people make what they think are smart comments without reading the thread (and possibly the article as well).
my post was in answer to triple sands concern over the pro's which is why it is posted as a reply to triplesands and hence why i was talking about pro's.
as it happens this lw doesnt just affect amateurs it affects anyone who works and drives HGV trucks. Considering how few 'weekend riders' have HGV wagons, i am not quite sure why anyone would think they are the most likely to be affected. according to driving law work is work regardless of whether you are driving so a pro running their own yard is at a lot more risk, so are most grooms who already work a six day week. at least your office person generally only works five eight hour days so they have a bit of slack.
as for the police 'screwing HGV drivers, i dont see what that means, they dont make the laws, merely enforce them and in fact the only time i ever had bother was with a very junior and rather over zealous young traffic officer, who was soon put straight by his superior once he realised both my truck, my driving and both our documents were in order.
i have not bothered to expound on the easy ay to catch people out because what may be clear to you and I, may be totally obscure to another and you never know who may be reading this.
 
i have a full time job and drive my friends HGV lorry at the weekend, because i am a friend and i am helping out! SHe runs a yard full time, so if i go to help out, often she is more tired than me.

I could drive my car all weekend and no one would stop me, this sounds like utter madness!
 
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i have a full time job and drive my friends HGV lorry at the weekend, because i am a friend and i am helping out! SHe runs a yard full time, so if i go to help out, often she is more tired than me.

I could drive my car all weekend and no one would stop me, this sounds like utter madness!

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The bit that confuses me is, you are a private individual and use your over 7.5 ton lorry totaly for private use you dont need an opperators licence, cpc, keep mainternace records (6 weeky PMI) .. but you do need to use the taco and keep the charts why and for what ??? why one set of rules and not the others , is this inforsable????has anyone been proscuted for tacograph ofences as a private hgv owner
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can they(vosa) if you havent got an O licence?? and you dont need one in law ?? And VOSA carnt "change its mind" its there to inforce the law not make them up as they go along..
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I don't know why people are shocked by these laws both me and my partner are HGV drivers and we has to comply with the laws outlined above so I don't see why horseboxes should be any different. Horseboxes drivers are just as likely to cause accidents or even death by being overworked and tired as anybody else. I used to be a traveling groom for an International showjumper and I was always away working for weeks and weeks without a day off i think these laws will protect grooms, riders, horses and any other road users. As soon as you drive a HGV' for one minute a week you automatically come under tachograph regulations so as mentioned above riders like William Fox Pit will have to complete a log for what he has done all week manually this is a legal requirement, so police will be able to check as he will have to produce this to him. have also got my CPC in National Road Haulage and my Advanced Certificate in Equine Transport. I also used to run the fleet in a large transport company before going on maternity leave so anybody requiring any assistance PM me.
 
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I don't know why people are shocked by these laws both me and my partner are HGV drivers and we has to comply with the laws outlined above so I don't see why horseboxes should be any different. Horseboxes drivers are just as likely to cause accidents or even death by being overworked and tired as anybody else. I used to be a traveling groom for an International showjumper and I was always away working for weeks and weeks without a day off i think these laws will protect grooms, riders, horses and any other road users. As soon as you drive a HGV' for one minute a week you automatically come under tachograph regulations so as mentioned above riders like William Fox Pit will have to complete a log for what he has done all week manually this is a legal requirement, so police will be able to check as he will have to produce this to him. have also got my CPC in National Road Haulage and my Advanced Certificate in Equine Transport. I also used to run the fleet in a large transport company before going on maternity leave so anybody requiring any assistance PM me.

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I think fox pitt will have a O licence and need to comply with the same regulations as anyone using a hgv as part of there bussiness.. its the private users issue which needs clearing up .......
 
Yes you are probably right about William but I know lots of the proffesionals that don't have an O Licence. You only need an O licence if it is for hire and reward but you need to comply with all the other tachograph regulations and working time regulations if you are a private user.
 
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Yes you are probably right about William but I know lots of the proffesionals that don't have an O Licence. You only need an O licence if it is for hire and reward but you need to comply with all the other tachograph regulations and working time regulations if you are a private user.

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If they( proffesionals) do it for a living and are earning money they are doing it for hire or reward and should have an O licence... my point is amature private people with hgvs who are competing for fun not to make a living...
 
I agree with you but all the amatures are still just as capable of having accident because they are too tired and have been working all week as the proffesionals. They need to comply with the tachograph laws.
 
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I agree with you but all the amatures are still just as capable of having accident because they are too tired and have been working all week as the proffesionals. They need to comply with the tachograph laws.

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Ok then no one should drive anything at the week end if we have been working during the week???, Oh great a perfect excuse for not going shopping
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thanks
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Well, that's not the easiest website to find information on, but these bits may help: http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/Working%20Time%20-%20The%20Facts.pdf and http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repository/EC%20Drivers%20Hours.pdf

One or two interesting points from the leaflets:

Working time is restricted to road transport activities and other associated work (for example, when a driver works in the employers’ warehouse).

The private use of vehicles is presently exempt from EC drivers hours rules. On 11 April 2007, this exemption will only apply when the permitted mass of the vehicle (and any trailer drawn) does not exceed 7500kg.

So their own leaflets are confusing as well.
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Hmmmmm I would love to be involved with this thread, there is so much I can add and advise on, but as I work for VOSA I am prohibited from making any comment, but I will point you to VOSA's web site, where advice can be found http://www.vosa.gov.uk/

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Maybe you could ask the right person to post some tips for us so we know what we need to do to comply with the regulations,
most people want to do the right thing but its getting harder to get definative answers to legal stuff relating to towing and the private use of hgvs there is so much conflicting advice and comments offered, and stupid laws from europe added on a regular basis it is hard to keep up....
 
There seems to be a little confusion going on here...

The restrictions apply only to vehicles OVER 7.5t, the users of 7.5t vehicles will not be affected.

As for the drivers amongst us who use vehicles plated over 7.5t and hold HGV licences....
The enforcement will no longer differentiate between weekend pleasure riders and professional operators.
What they are saying in simple terms is...
If you hold an HGV/LGV licence and drive a vehicle in excess of 7.5t, at any time.... you must comply with the domestic drivers hours regulations in the UK.
They are not the most simple part of law to understand!... you would be well advised to research the legislation, all the information is available on the web... however you may find it more acceptable to book yourself on a course with one of the transport training operators.

The basics revolve around one issue...
IF at ANY TIME in the 7 day week, you drive a HGV/LGV, then for the whole of that week you are required to have a manual log of all working hours and work details, you are also required to comply with the Drivers hours regulations.

The only way to effectively comply, is if you work more than 30hrs a week and intend to drive a HGV/LGV at any point, then learn, understand and comply with the regulations and the working time directive.

The change in enforcement will simply mean it becomes easier for Vosa and others to be active on a weekend around equestrian events. The enforcement issue is very complicated, and a pretty good money spinner!

At the end of the day... you took the time to take an HGV/LGV test, you invested the money in doing so. If you can manage the test, then you can manage to learn the regulations and comply with them. It's not the fairest of enforcement changes to be actioned... but, it's been done, it's there and now we must act accordingly.
Our licence's, our money, and our activities are valuable to us all, a few wee changes and we'll be ok!
If it's going to affect you excessively, consider down grading to a 7.5t or less vehicle!!!
 
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If it's going to affect you excessively, consider down grading to a 7.5t or less vehicle!!!

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Many people on here will testify to how difficult it is to find a 7.5t that will take 3 horses, and even some weekend riders have more than 3 horses, so a trailer or 7.5t are not an option.

IMO it is completely unfair that (e.g) someone driving a non HGV for a living can drive an HGV without being restricted yet is far more likely to be tired and therefore cause an accident.
 
I'm aware that your post was directed at TripleSandH and my comment is still valid.

I was referring to VOSA screwing drivers against the wall not the police.
 
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IMO it is completely unfair that (e.g) someone driving a non HGV for a living can drive an HGV without being restricted yet is far more likely to be tired and therefore cause an accident.

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Exactly why the enforcement is changing!!!
The restriction will now be enforced.....

At the end of the day... an HGV/LGV is a missile! It can cause massive destruction.. therefore are the limits not justified??
 
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IMO it is completely unfair that (e.g) someone driving a non HGV for a living can drive an HGV without being restricted yet is far more likely to be tired and therefore cause an accident.

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They cant now.
 
Sorry I didn't word that correctly. I mean in theory someone who has been driving a non HGV 100 ( obviously an exaggeration but it could happen!) hours a week for a living can drive a 7.5t lorry at the weekend, and is far more likely to cause an accident.

A 7.5t lorry is just as lethal as an HGV, as is any vehicle.
 
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If it's going to affect you excessively, consider down grading to a 7.5t or less vehicle!!!

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Many people on here will testify to how difficult it is to find a 7.5t that will take 3 horses, and even some weekend riders have more than 3 horses, so a trailer or 7.5t are not an option.

IMO it is completely unfair that (e.g) someone driving a non HGV for a living can drive an HGV without being restricted yet is far more likely to be tired and therefore cause an accident.

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A 3 horse lorry is easy to achieve and 4 with living quarters is possible on a 7.5 gross chassis,the bare chassis weigh about 3.3 tons the problem is the horse box builders using the wrong matrials and old fasthioned constrution methods, think how light a modern caravan is and that has a chassis and wheels so someone needs to design something from the ground up and bring the horse box into the 21century surely there is a market for it , luckly horse box makers dont make planes or boats..... they woulden't fly and a boat would sink..
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I'm aware that your post was directed at TripleSandH and my comment is still valid.

I was referring to VOSA screwing drivers against the wall not the police.

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VOSA are only doing a job and it is important that lorrys are safe and drivers/opperators keep to the rules so it fair for all , sadly there is presure on drivers to twist the rules and sometimes break the law just to get the job done and earn a living wage....the WTD was supossed to help employes, but from what ive seen it just puts more pressure on folk to achive more in less time when it comes to driving... just my 2 cents...
 
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If it's going to affect you excessively, consider down grading to a 7.5t or less vehicle!!!

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Many people on here will testify to how difficult it is to find a 7.5t that will take 3 horses, and even some weekend riders have more than 3 horses, so a trailer or 7.5t are not an option.

IMO it is completely unfair that (e.g) someone driving a non HGV for a living can drive an HGV without being restricted yet is far more likely to be tired and therefore cause an accident.

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A 3 horse lorry is easy to achieve and 4 with living quarters is possible on a 7.5 gross chassis,the bare chassis weigh about 3.3 tons the problem is the horse box builders using the wrong matrials and old fasthioned constrution methods, think how light a modern caravan is and that has a chassis and wheels so someone needs to design something from the ground up and bring the horse box into the 21century surely there is a market for it , luckly horse box makers dont make planes or boats..... they woulden't fly and a boat would sink..
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And look how caravans disintegrate at the slightest impact, what would happen if a horse were to kick the sides?

A lot of research and stress calculations go into modern vehicle bodies, I can't see how they are going to make them much lighter......
 
Yes but you only need to make the horse area strong??? whats wrong useing ally instead of steel and using light weight matirials for the living, not chip board ally plank floor instead of wood, sadly little research and stress calculations go in to most horse boxes just a lot of OSB and chip board I work in the body building and motor trade as a sub contractor and have observed what goes on..
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