Shocked at amount of bad feet seen at dressage yesterday!

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Christmas Crumpet

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I went to an UA dressage comp yesterday and was really quite shocked by the amount of very bad feet there were on some of the horses.

Very underrun heels and long toes seemed to be standard. Now I do observe feet quite a lot more now having had trouble with feet and am almost itching for my horse's holiday to start (end of March when hunting has finished) so I can take his shoes off again for his summer holiday but I can honestly say I have never seen as many rubbish feet on horses that are doing a job i.e. dressage.

I did come away feeling thankful that my horse's feet weren't as bad as some of them but also wondering how many of the owners realised the feet were rubbish and had actually said anything to their farrier. Or whether indeed their farrier even cared and just banged the shoes on and there was no discussion between them.

I would love to be doing stuff over the summer but taking the shoes off for a good long holiday before hunting starts again seems like a far better idea.
 
I often also see bad feet when out and about but after speaking to someone about their pony and shoeing, I was horrified when said person claims the pony goes 10 to 11 weeks between shoeing, that is double the amount of time mine go I never leave mine longer than 6 weeks, so it's no surprise that a lot of horses have rubbish feet if they are left that long, there is only so much a farrier can do if the owners are leaving horses so long, my farrier said he has a few clients that constantly leave horses for weeks after due date then wonder why the shoes fall off and the feet are bad.I think you just can't educate some people.
 
I haven't really checked out other people's hooves, I have to confess, and yes I bet there are some bad cases out there. But I also think a lot of people dont know what good hooves are, and rely on their farrier without really understanding what goes on.

Now I realise we should all have some basic horse care, but I'm no vet or farrier so i have to rely on them knowing their job, to a great extent. I have tried to improve my knowledge and I feel I have a better idea than I did, but I'm never going to reach the standard of an expert. I suspect it's the same for a lot of people.

I think you make a valid point OP, but it's not an easy thing to solve. Maybe it needs better farriers? Maybe we owners should spend more time educating ourselves on all aspects of horse care? Should we pick people up when we see bad farriery (but you know how funny folks get when you dare to say anything negative about their horse, and I include myself in that!)?
 
If you think that is bad, imagine how I felt some years ago judging Highlands at the breed show at
Malvern. Lots were flat footed, and one that I rode actually had heartbar shoes on, and wondered why I put her down.......
 
Bernster said:
But I also think a lot of people dont know what good hooves are, and rely on their farrier without really understanding what goes on.

I think you make a valid point OP, but it's not an easy thing to solve. Maybe it needs better farriers? Maybe we owners should spend more time educating ourselves on all aspects of horse care? Should we pick people up when we see bad farriery (but you know how funny folks get when you dare to say anything negative about their horse, and I include myself in that!)?
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I agree with this and was guilty of it myself, which regrettably cost me my horse of a lifetime, something which haunts me to this day. I put all my faith in my farrier who was (and still is as far as I'm aware!) an AWCF and very well respected at the time and was even recommended to me by my then vet.
 
StarcatcherWilliam said:
I agree with this and was guilty of it myself, which regrettably cost me my horse of a lifetime, something which haunts me to this day. I put all my faith in my farrier who was (and still is as far as I'm aware!) an AWCF and very well respected at the time and was even recommended to me by my then vet.
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I too lost a horse (I would say my best hunter and jumping horse I've had) due to awful front feet. The vet was utterly useless, the farrier not much better and, as a result, I am much more observant. It is thanks to this forum that I now feed a low sugar/low starch diet, have fed Pro Hoof and now am feeding Forage Plus, refuse to have any remedial farriery and try to have everything in place for when shoes come off for a holiday in order to utilise that time as best as possible in order to improve feet!!

I was not taught this stuff in the pony club, the farrier doesn't offer his opinion unless asked and I believe he is fairly traditional in his approach. He hasn't heard of the good hoof supplements. In our area it appears that if the shoe stays on, thats good enough. Horse a bit lame. Whack heartbars and/or pads on because you want to keep riding it. Of course a lot of the traditional stuff still applies but we have moved forwards somewhat since the day of jute rugs/thatching and feeding bran mashes. One thing that still stands thank goodness is horses having their shoes off on their holidays!!
 
Whenever I go to any sort of horse related event I cant help but look at the hooves, I am usually horrified and amazed in equal measure at how poor many of the hooves appear. Especially as the horses are so stoic and seem to be able to cope relatively well with comparatively bad feet.

I know many owners who judge how good a farrier is by how long the shoes stay on for - it is very rare for anyone around here to have a horse reshod more frequently than every 8 weeks, most stretch it to 10-12 which is ludicrous. I know many more who simply are completely uninterested in their horses feet, their opinion is that is a job for the farrier.

Finally, I am deeply concerned about how many physios and bodyworkers have little to no knowledge about what a healthy hoof looks like, the benefits of barefoot and how that will affect the horse's overall movement. You can put as much work into the soft tissue as you like - if they foot is poor then they aren't going to move well!
 
Loads of bad farriers doing terrible work .
Loads of bad owners leaving shoes on too long and leaving too long between shoeing breaks .
That's the problem .
I try not to foot watch it makes me depressed .
 
I think that overall there is an air of ignorance on our part.

Most of us (and I am guilty of this too) will just trust the pro. Whether that be the Vet, Physio, Saddle Fitter, Farrier or Dentist.

I think as a whole there needs to be more education on things like a healthy hoof, right down to what to look for in a badly fitting saddle or to spot muscle tension/soreness instead of just blindly following the "pro", because they are human too and sometimes their judgement call isn't the right one.

I am guilty of this too, I admit it, my weakness is feet. Saddles, wounds, muscle related injuries/soreness I can do, but I am really having to try and educate myself on feet.
 
samlf said:
I know many owners who judge how good a farrier is by how long the shoes stay on for - it is very rare for anyone around here to have a horse reshod more frequently than every 8 weeks, most stretch it to 10-12 which is ludicrous. I know many more who simply are completely uninterested in their horses feet, their opinion is that is a job for the farrier.
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^^ this.

Seems really common for people to delay farrier visits because of lack of money, or because they can't find the time etc. Lots of horses should be on a much shorter cycle, I know a few that would be better going 5 weeks, but people won't cough up for it.
I'm always surprised when people post on here saying they can't get their farrier to ring them back when they need to book in 'urgently' for a routine job... I would always book ahead on whatever regular cycle was best for my horses -then I know they will be done, and the farrier can plan his workload better.
 
I too try not to look at feet, I can't help it but very rarely do I see good work from a farrier.

I hope I don't get hung for treason for this but the horse guards feet are also truly terrible.

I just thank my old boy for teaching me all I know about hoof health... I hope never to see a shoe again in my life.
 
samlf said:
Whenever I go to any sort of horse related event I cant help but look at the hooves, I am usually horrified and amazed in equal measure at how poor many of the hooves appear. Especially as the horses are so stoic and seem to be able to cope relatively well with comparatively bad feet.

I know many owners who judge how good a farrier is by how long the shoes stay on for - it is very rare for anyone around here to have a horse reshod more frequently than every 8 weeks, most stretch it to 10-12 which is ludicrous. I know many more who simply are completely uninterested in their horses feet, their opinion is that is a job for the farrier.

Finally, I am deeply concerned about how many physios and bodyworkers have little to no knowledge about what a healthy hoof looks like, the benefits of barefoot and how that will affect the horse's overall movement. You can put as much work into the soft tissue as you like - if they foot is poor then they aren't going to move well!
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Agree with the above. Also in the USA there isn't the training and apprenticeship scheme that is in the UK. As far as I am aware, I think anyone in the USA can pick up a hammer and nails and start shoeing a horse. Of course, if you are in the middle of nowhere, then that would have been the norm. Of course, there are farriers in the USA who do training and become Master Farriers. This is where the barefoot movement started, and the two major pioneers of barefoot, were farriers too before they started taking off the shoes.
 
It's so hard though isn't it? Everyone has a different opinion. Saddle fit is more of a minefield than feet.

Who is there to trust, and how do you learn yourself what is right?
 
Caroline - why bother putting the shoes back on? You're most of the way there to going fully shoeless. Save yourself a fortune, both now and in the long run and do it for the good of your horse. He'd thank you for it.
 
Like many people I learnt the hard way you need to educate yourself to keep your horse safe and sound .
You should be able to have the farrier pay his bill and leave him to the job and some farriers are like this but it's too big a risk you must must educate yourself .
The horses that taught me this paid with shortened lives . With what they taught me I strive to do better for the ones I have now .
 
Andalucian said:
I see the feet getting worse as the horses progress through the levels, advance medium upwards I can't look at the feet usually.
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That's very interesting. Is that the age of the horse, do you think, or is the higher level work also corrupting the feet as well as increasing years of shoeing?
 
I have a foal and have would like to educate myself on hoof health. Can anyone recommend any reading? I find I understand if there are images to point out the issues. I would ideally like to keep her unshod all her life and with her being 8 months have the perfect opportunity to start as I mean to go on!
 
J1993 said:
I have a foal and have would like to educate myself on hoof health. Can anyone recommend any reading? I find I understand if there are images to point out the issues. I would ideally like to keep her unshod all her life and with her being 8 months have the perfect opportunity to start as I mean to go on!
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Everything by Pete Ramey.

Hoofrehab.com

For a youngster to create great feet - movement, movement, movement.

Enjoy the learning, it's fascinating :)
 
I too see some awful feet around, I think a lot of the problem is that people do not know what they do not know! When I learnt to ride the RS used an excellent local farrier, who we used when we got our first horse, that farrier was pleased to educate his customers and went on to educate the next generation of local farriers (some of them) who continued to educate the generation after them. This means that those of us who have continued to use that "strand" of farriers know about feet and can tell good from bad, but sadly I think we are the minority.
 
Goldenstar said:
Like many people I learnt the hard way you need to educate yourself to keep your horse safe and sound.
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Me too. I was dazzled by the high profile names that my former farrrier of 30 years also shod for (horses shod by him featured on multiple front page covers of H&H.) He came to me every 4 to 6 weeks.

He eventually lamed everything of mine with cr@p foot balance. He's been 'let go' by most of his high profile clients, but you may still spot him on the telly at a certain high profile race meeting. He has a number of apprentices.

I certainly learned the hard way :(.
 
Don't shoot me down here but..... my Welsh pony hasn't had his feet done in over 6 months. He is barefoot and only does hacking over very varied terrain. His feet have not become long, overgrown or even have any cracks. He is on a low sugar/starch diet and is in decent work. My farrier says he's just got good strong proper pony feet and is wearing them down himself. Obviously the farrier has seen him and is very happy with foot balance etc and says he won't take any hoof off as the hooves will then be too short.
In all my years I have never had a pony not need the farrier like this one does. Our tb's have been seen to many, many times and the pony never needs anything doing. Is this normal for a Welsh pony? His feet look exactly the same as they did the day the farrier trimmed them 6 months ago.
 
Were you at ecclife? The regulars competing there really need to get a decent farrier! Most are using the same guy and he's awful, he trimmed my mares feet once and will definitely not be touching them again!
 
Many people trust their professionals. My knowledge of feet was pityful before being on this forum! Now I know my horses faults, and have a farrier who is working on correcting them ( he is excellent).

Same with conformation, I saw an advert recently describing a horse as beautiful uphill, made me wonder if like feet, people just don't quite know what to look for.
 
Last time I had a saddle fitter the first thing she did when I brought my horse out was look at her feet and tell me how pleased she was to see she was barefoot as feet make such a difference to the whole body ☺
 
J1993 said:
I have a foal and have would like to educate myself on hoof health. Can anyone recommend any reading? I find I understand if there are images to point out the issues. I would ideally like to keep her unshod all her life and with her being 8 months have the perfect opportunity to start as I mean to go on!
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A good place to start is Feet First by Nic Barker. Then perhaps dig in to the really meaty stuff from Jaime Jackson and Pete Ramey. The two farriers that really pioneered barefoot and hoof health and the whole healthy horse starts with the feet philosophy.

The first rule of farriery is "first, do no harm". Shoes were meant to protect the feet on hard working horses that pulled carts and carriages all day everyday. To keep their energy up, they had to be fed starchy grains and their feet suffered. Nowadays, we keep horses on soft surfaces, ride them on soft surfaces, compete on soft surfaces, hack on soft smooth surfaces an hour at a time. That's what struck me in the end... why exactly are we shoeing our horses? Provided they have a natural diet, plenty of exercise on all terrain, the average leisure horse simply doesn't warrant shoes. It's own perfectly evolved feet do a fabulous job on their own given the chance :)
 
ycbm said:
That's very interesting. Is that the age of the horse, do you think, or is the higher level work also corrupting the feet as well as increasing years of shoeing?
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I think it's this combination of factors:-

1. Number of years consistently in shoes (with no unshod rest periods).
2. Wear and tear of type of work (soft surface, faster contraction).
3. "Style" of shoeing dressage horses "long" as it is "perceived" that a heavier foot on the end of the limb encourages more expressive extension work (whereas in reality it stops the true shoulder movement that the rider should strive for).
4. Veterinary intervention/advice encouraging gel pad inserts, wedges, bar shoes etc when after all the above causes lack of performance at about Advance Medium level and the diagnosis indicates foot pain, but no "diagnosis" is apparent through X-ray.

I love dressage too :(
 
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